. . . and take Gartside with you, too.

[BWFC_Insane]

McClaren won the Dutch league with FC Twente, the first time they'd ever won it.

Would you appoint McClaren?

You wouldn't? Surprises me given your desire for experience and security. Has a better record in most ways than McCarthey and other 'safe' possible appointees...

It would be a dull and safe appointment, but has usually been your default position - including being the last man on earth that wanted to keep Megson.

I can see the reason why, and, after the last 18 months, find myself tugged towards it. Reluctantly...

I would. I think McClaren could do a good job here.

Certainly I can see why they might want a young manager who could work with Lee.

Equally I probably favour some experience.

I just didn't think many would want McClaren....

[BWFC_Insane]

McClaren won the Dutch league with FC Twente, the first time they'd ever won it.

Would you appoint McClaren?

And why not mention any other Norweigan league winning managers in the past?

To recap - other than Mark Hughes and Megson, who is it you want?

Dunno, nobody in particular. You know I would probably edge for a solid if unspectacular appointment in McCarthy or McClaren or Davies.

However can see the argument for taking a risk on a less proven candidate. In that case though the crucial thing is picking the right one.

[danardif1]

You also have to remember that despite what you may think of the level of the leagues in foreignland, these guys (the likes of Solskjaer, McClaren etc.) haven proven that they are winners at the highest level in that country. No other team in Norway is as good as Solskjaer's Molde, no team in Holland was as good as McClaren's Twente. They might be operating at the same level as Championship football (they're not, but in your estimation), but they are winners, and it's creating the right atmosphere in our club to be winners is needed right now. Big Sam had it with his almost OCD-levels of stats and analysis, that will to find every advantage possible to help the team win games, and from evidence Solskjaer has this sussed in Norwegian football.

Football is the same everywhere, the ball is round, and you arrange 11 guys as best you can to put that ball in the other guys net more than the other 11 guys. Those who best arrange them win things...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

They might be operating at the same level as Championship football (they're not, but in your estimation),

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

They might be operating at the same level as Championship football (they're not, but in your estimation),

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

[Lord Kangana]

Would McLaren really want to come back to England now though after having his fingers burnt at Forest and the National team?

Especially after, in a Pavlovian sense, it must have been reinforced to him that he can do a job in Holland.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Would McLaren really want to come back to England now though after having his fingers burnt at Forest and the National team?

Especially after, in a Pavlovian sense, it must have been reinforced to him that he can do a job in Holland.

It's a very good point - although McClaren was somewhat unlucky at Forest (a club in trouble, a squad nosediving after the divisive events between the board and Billy Davies). He might want to come back at some point, but this probably isn't it - I doubt he'd leave Twente for us or any other second-rate team. Sorry, did I say second-rate? I meant second-tier, but we have to splash on the cold water now and again.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

They might be operating at the same level as Championship football (they're not, but in your estimation),

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

I'm not sure I follow the point?

And even if I did, over the past ten years, the Premier League has had four different champions, with one team winning five times, one team winning three times and two teams taking one each. In that period, the runner up has come from outside the group of four just once.

Over the past ten years, the Eredivisie has had four different champions, with one team winning five times, one team winning three times and two teams taking one each. In that period, the runner up has come from outside the group of four just once.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

They might be operating at the same level as Championship football (they're not, but in your estimation),

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

I'm not sure I follow the point?

And even if I did, over the past ten years, the Premier League has had four different champions, with one team winning five times, one team winning three times and two teams taking one each. In that period, the runner up has come from outside the group of four just once.

Over the past ten years, the Eredivisie has had four different champions, with one team winning five times, one team winning three times and two teams taking one each. In that period, the runner up has come from outside the group of four just once.

So you don't think their top flight is more likely than ours to be won by a team that's never won it before? Nice number-crunching but let's return to the point I actually made, which is the openness of the title race: in late February, while Man City were 20 points clear of sixth-placed Newcastle, the Eredivisie top six were separated by five points. If that happens over here this season, I'll be delighted, but more pertinently I'll be surprised.

[danardif1]

They might be operating at the same level as Championship football (they're not, but in your estimation),

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

I'm not sure I follow the point?

And even if I did, over the past ten years, the Premier League has had four different champions, with one team winning five times, one team winning three times and two teams taking one each. In that period, the runner up has come from outside the group of four just once.

Over the past ten years, the Eredivisie has had four different champions, with one team winning five times, one team winning three times and two teams taking one each. In that period, the runner up has come from outside the group of four just once.

So you don't think their top flight is more likely than ours to be won by a team that's never won it before? Nice number-crunching but let's return to the point I actually made, which is the openness of the title race: in late February, while Man City were 20 points clear of sixth-placed Newcastle, the Eredivisie top six were separated by five points. If that happens over here this season, I'll be delighted, but more pertinently I'll be surprised.

My point was more that the competitiveness of the league is not due to it's 'low quality'. Those teams are good, as evidenced by some of the games you see in (particularly) the Europa League... Would you say that Bolton are currently equivalent to Molde or Twente in terms of quality? After seeing some of their European games, hell no. So Solskjaer's Molde, or McClaren's Twente are much better than Wanderers, and are probably as good if not better than a bulk of the mid-table downwards Premier League teams.

So why is such a big problem to scout managers from these leagues and regions? English football thinks too much of itself, that's why.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

To clarify: I like the Dutch league. That's partly because I generally like the Dutch (and Dutch football) but also because I like any division that isn't broadly predictable before a ball is kicked. Like the Championship, funnily enough: I said before a ball was kicked that I couldn't predict whether we'd finish first or last, and that's widely true of most teams.

I'm all for us interviewing OGS. I wouldn't throw myself afore a train if we interviewed Steve McClaren, although I think he'd be a fool to leave Twente for us.

And as a side issue, I deplore the idea that a league being unpredictable is evidence of low quality: I'd say that it made the actual competition more enjoyable.

[n035209]

The best thing about Mcclaren possibly getting the job is the fact that after a week he would of adopted a broad Lancashire accent and proceed to complete all his interview in said voice.

[danardif1]

To clarify: I like the Dutch league. That's partly because I generally like the Dutch (and Dutch football) but also because I like any division that isn't broadly predictable before a ball is kicked. Like the Championship, funnily enough: I said before a ball was kicked that I couldn't predict whether we'd finish first or last, and that's widely true of most teams.

I'm all for us interviewing OGS. I wouldn't throw myself afore a train if we interviewed Steve McClaren, although I think he'd be a fool to leave Twente for us.

And as a side issue, I deplore the idea that a league being unpredictable is evidence of low quality: I'd say that it made the actual competition more enjoyable.

And I'm right with you there, just wanted to clarify my stance is all.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

So you don't think their top flight is more likely than ours to be won by a team that's never won it before?

This year? No.

And as a side issue, I deplore the idea that a league being unpredictable is evidence of low quality.

I'll go further than that and say that unpredictability and 'competitiveness' are absolutely no indicator as to quality on their own whatsoever.

That was actually my main point.

[Hoboh]

So you don't think their top flight is more likely than ours to be won by a team that's never won it before?

This year? No.

And as a side issue, I deplore the idea that a league being unpredictable is evidence of low quality.

I'll go further than that and say that unpredictability and 'competitiveness' are absolutely no indicator as to quality on their own whatsoever.

Cannot beat the evidence of your own eyes, except in a courtroom that is

That was actually my main point.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

So you don't think their top flight is more likely than ours to be won by a team that's never won it before?

This year? No.

Any year, generally, but thanks anyway. I'll ask another: when do you think the English top flight will next be won by a team that hasn't won it before? Or, to narrow it down, anyone who isn't Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, even Liverpool? I think it will be a very long time. And I dislike that: it makes things very boring indeed.

And as a side issue, I deplore the idea that a league being unpredictable is evidence of low quality.

I'll go further than that and say that unpredictability and 'competitiveness' are absolutely no indicator as to quality on their own whatsoever. That was actually my main point.

Ah, I see. I would agree that you can have a competitive league of any quality: that competition in itself does not guarantee brilliance. But it does at least threaten interest, which the Premier League procession has lacked for far too long.

[Prufrock]

Until last year, when was the last time Man City won it? Within the last decade Chelsea won it for the first time in about 50 years. Our league could be won by somebody who never has before, if they can find the right foreign billionaire.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Until last year, when was the last time Man City won it? Within the last decade Chelsea won it for the first time in about 50 years. Our league could be won by somebody who never has before, if they can find the right foreign billionaire.

Does that make it competitive? Billionaires buying success? Do you think the English top flight is a competitive, open, interesting league?

Twente nearly went bust 10 years ago. They're now owned by Joop Munsterman, who'll never have to busk for change but certainly isn't in the Chelsea/City stratosphere. They haven't spent lavishly, but they've been well managed (on and off the pitch) and picked up their first ever national title. I just think that's far more interesting than being bankrolled by a mining billionaire, that's all.

[Athers]

It's all about France, except for the minor inconvenience of Lyon winning it 7 years running!

1-2-3
1993–94 Paris Saint-Germain Marseille Auxerre
1994–95 Nantes Lyon Paris Saint-Germain
1995–96 Auxerre Paris Saint-Germain Monaco
1996–97 Monaco Paris Saint-Germain Nantes
1997–98 Lens Metz Monaco
1998–99 Bordeaux Marseille Lyon
1999–2000 Monaco Paris Saint-Germain Lyon
2000–01 Nantes Lyon Lille
2001–02 Lyon Lens Auxerre
2002–03 Lyon Monaco Marseille
2003–04 Lyon Paris Saint-Germain Monaco
2004–05 Lyon Lille Monaco
2005–06 Lyon Bordeaux Lille
2006–07 Lyon Marseille Toulouse
2007–08 Lyon Bordeaux Marseille
2008–09 Bordeaux Marseille Lyon
2009–10 Marseille Lyon Auxerre
2010–11 Lille Marseille Lyon
2011–12 Montpellier Paris Saint-Germain Lille

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's all about France, except for the minor inconvenience of Lyon winning it 7 years running!

Yeah, that was a shame - but they still ballsed up in Europe every year...

The Chermans pass the pot around quite well, with the irksome exception of Bayern keep winning it - but at least they've had four other teams win it in the last nine years...

Was going to say the worst is Portugal – only twice in 80 years won by a team outside Porto/Sporting/Benfica - but then I remembered that last season, the third-placed team in La Liga finished closer to relegation than second...