How long should a manager get?

[Hoboh]

How many games or how much time should a manager get or more to the point, how long should a Chairman persevere with him?
How long does it take a manager to prove they have something about them that starts to manifest by way of performance/results?
Given the aim of the club from the donkey, sorry Chairmans own mouth was an imeadiate bounce back to the premier league, which with every game played looks less likely, anything less is surely a failiure.
Hark I here the angels sing 'he needs a transfer window', to do what exactly? sign players who then need a full pre-season to 'bed' in? thus giving him and a lot of others excuses galore.
IMHO we needed someone who could extract the maximum out of the current lot with a window to bring in players to help with the 'final push' and this just ain't happening.
I ain't calling for his head just yet I'll see how Jan goes and who he signs but I cannot help but feel we have all been let down big time and the buck stops on Gartsides desk for this.

[BWFC_Insane]

Hoboh, how do you know for sure, that Dougie isnt extracting the maximum from our players?

[boltonboris]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

[boltonboris]

Hoboh, how do you know for sure, that Dougie isnt extracting the maximum from our players?

Also, last season we ultimately got relegated from the Premier League because of poor refereeing on the final day. We could and should've stayed up. We finished 18th.

We're now 16th in the Championship with the same group of players. So are you saying that you believe the Championship is a of a similar level to the Premier League?

[BWFC_Insane]

Hoboh, how do you know for sure, that Dougie isnt extracting the maximum from our players?

Also, last season we ultimately got relegated from the Premier League because of poor refereeing on the final day. We could and should've stayed up. We finished 18th.

We're now 16th in the Championship with the same group of players. So are you saying that you believe the Championship is a of a similar level to the Premier League?

I suppose one could argue that the battlers from last season, those who rolled their sleeves up when the going got tough, Steinsson, Muamba, NRC and Wheater are all gone or injured.

Let's also not get too giddy about just missing out on staying up. We had a decent run when we looked in big trouble that coincided with Muamba's collapse and the subsequent pulling together of the squad. When it really counted at home to West Brom we showed our true weak nature...,.

[thebish]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

^ indeed....

I'm sure BWFCi will be along shortly to say he has changed his mind and that Coyle was actually getting the most that was possible out of this squad of players... and that it turns out that Coyle is NOT a bad manager after all - it's just that he's no good in the transfer market and assembled a very poor squad..

[scotty]

Hoboh, how do you know for sure, that Dougie isnt extracting the maximum from our players?

Also, last season we ultimately got relegated from the Premier League because of poor refereeing on the final day. We could and should've stayed up. We finished 18th.

We're now 16th in the Championship with the same group of players. So are you saying that you believe the Championship is a of a similar level to the Premier League?

I suppose one could argue that the battlers from last season, those who rolled their sleeves up when the going got tough, Steinsson, Muamba, NRC and Wheater are all gone or injured.

Not to mention Cahill, Jussi and Klasnic who were in the team for large parts of last season and who are considerably better than the current players in their respective positions.

To go back to the original question, i do think that you need to give a manager a few months. Freedman was expected to come in and hit the ground running but to be booing him after 11 games is a bit sad. I think a manger definitely needs at least one transfer window, preferably the summer one. Coyle has left us with some shite players who clearly arent interested in the club. And the worrying thing is he spent a small fortune on them (im thinking Alonso, Ream, Mills, Mears, Sordell who must have cost £10m between them.) i've not mentioned Ngog who whilst lacking in ability, does at least work hard.

I think when a manager comes in he must make an impact by, at least, making you hard to beat. 3 defeats in 11 only tells half the story and the defence is still an unorganised mess shipping 16 goals in 11 games. Perhaps the most worrying thing is that we have not yet arrested the slide. We're still on the decline and haven't yet bottomed out. The jury is still very much out on Freedman.

[Midnite]

I don't think Eddie Davies will be very happy if you keep changing managers...got to remember it's his wallet that keeps this club afloat. If he ever gets p****d off it's goodbye Bolton Wanderers.

[BWFC_Insane]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

^ indeed....

I'm sure BWFCi will be along shortly to say he has changed his mind and that Coyle was actually getting the most that was possible out of this squad of players... and that it turns out that Coyle is NOT a bad manager after all - it's just that he's no good in the transfer market and assembled a very poor squad..

That's an oxymoron. His main job was to assemble a good squad and organise it. He built a squad without the right mentality or physicality and left us weak in many ways. If he was getting the maximum out of it then fine, but that just shows how poor he was because ultimately when you've had that time to build something you live or die by how good it is, no matter who you are.

I'd have had more sympathy if he'd not have told us that it 'was the squad he always wanted to manage'.

[boltonboris]

Didn't Freedman say "This club has all the tools at its disposal to return to the Premier League"?

You can't have it both ways

[Wandering Willy]

Oh you've done it now.

BB - the new BL3.

[boltonboris]

I'd like to think my arguments are a little more constructive.

[wigan white]

I still think we're over-rating our squad. We keep classing most them as "premiership players" when in reality they're players who have "played in the premiership"...... there's a big difference and i think we need to realise this. I agree with Freedman in the fact that the squad is unbalanced and we need some experience in to help the team but we also need to ship out the dead-wood which due to the large number of shite players we have is a major task.
Its far too early to judge Freedman as i dont think some poeple realise the huge job to turn around the mess Coyle made.

[thebish]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

^ indeed....

I'm sure BWFCi will be along shortly to say he has changed his mind and that Coyle was actually getting the most that was possible out of this squad of players... and that it turns out that Coyle is NOT a bad manager after all - it's just that he's no good in the transfer market and assembled a very poor squad..

That's an oxymoron. His main job was to assemble a good squad and organise it. He built a squad without the right mentality or physicality and left us weak in many ways. If he was getting the maximum out of it then fine, but that just shows how poor he was because ultimately when you've had that time to build something you live or die by how good it is, no matter who you are.

I'd have had more sympathy if he'd not have told us that it 'was the squad he always wanted to manage'.

so - do you now think that Coyle was getting the maximum out of the squad he had chosen? - formation/tactics/motivation... (just to be clear)

[Tombwfc]

We were shit last season, and can have no complaints with the fact that we did get relegated. But, the fact remains we were a goal away from still staying up. Reading probably won't get that close, and they won this division.

Now, we've lost four players from the team that beat Aston Villa away last season - Steinsson, Miyaichi, Reo-Coker and Wheater. I think we've replaced three of those perfectly well. Steinsson for Ricketts (who no longer had to play left-back due to the signing of Warnock), Miyaichi with a fit again Lee and Reo-Coker with Spearing.

I know all of our injured players are worldbeaters, but is David Wheater that good that he's the difference between a competitive Premier League side and a bottom half Championship one?

So no, I don't believe that we're currently getting the best out of our players. To answer the question posed by the thread - at the current rate, I'd give him the next two transfer windows. That'd obviously change if we started to seriously look like going down.

The problem with Dougie is that there is little to cling on to, given he's only been in management for 100 games. I don't understand what exactly made us appoint him, and so it's hard to have much faith in him.

[plymouth wanderer]

Oh you've done it now.

BB & Bish - the new BL3's.

Corrected

[BWFC_Insane]

Didn't Freedman say "This club has all the tools at its disposal to return to the Premier League"?

You can't have it both ways

He's not going to come in and say 'squads a bit shit' is he?

Anyhow maybe he believed that. He's had 11 games to assess it and is now talking about needing replacements.

Coyle had 2 years building it and knew the players over a long period when he made that judgement. I don't think saying someone who bought the 'squad he always wanged' over two and a bit years should have more knowledge and be more responsible for that sort of comment and situation than someone who has been here for 3 months and not been able to sign his own players yet, is 'having it both ways'.

I think it's saying if Dougie does the same then it's his neck on the line. But as of yet he hasn't had the chance.

I think even Hoboh understands the difference between two and a half years and just under 3 months!

[wigan white]

the 'squad he always wanged' over two and a bit years

Blimey, if thats what he did to the players then no wonder nobody decent would sign for us!!!!!

[officer_dibble]

If he is, then Coyle was. Pretty much.

^ indeed....

I'm sure BWFCi will be along shortly to say he has changed his mind and that Coyle was actually getting the most that was possible out of this squad of players... and that it turns out that Coyle is NOT a bad manager after all - it's just that he's no good in the transfer market and assembled a very poor squad..

*yawn*
getting tedious this place

[plymouth wanderer]

Just been speaking to an old friend that i use to work with in the dockyard

He happens to be a Palace fan and he basically said he needs a couple of transfer windows to put his stamp on the team

When he was at Palace alot of the players he brought in he said he had never heard of but they turned out to be really good players and he built that team out of nothing

He also went onto say that Dougie's scouting network is brilliant and the backroom staff really know there stuff (Lennie Lawrence in particular) also said that he has't been that impressed with Holloway since he took over and he think's Palace have peaked to early

And another interesting thing is when Palace beat us he remembered Dougie saying at the time that he felt really underwhelmed about us and that our fitness was shocking

He also said that it looks like he will stabalise the ship this season and really push on next season but the league is so unpredictable that anything can happen and if Dougie gets us on a run January onwards the play offs are a achievable

So yeah he needs more time