Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[BWFC_Insane]

Has he suggested that?

No, he won't answer that question when he's asked it.

Won't say what HE thinks should happen.

Ultimate wind up merchant.

[boltonboris]

Has he suggested that?

No
Just a question...

I have my doubts but he has time as far as I'm concerned.

Where I'm at, too.

[LeverEnd]

I think a more experienced manager would have got far more points than Freedman has so far.

...or even a not so experienced manager. Sean Dyche has overseen an upturn in form at Burnley, thanks mainly to sorting the defence out, over exactly the same number of games that Freedman has been blundering around with us.

Dyche the new flavour of the month now Mick McCarthy isn't doing so well?

'Not doing so well'?! He's taken 25 points from 15 games with a struggling team! Dougie's managed 6 points fewer from the same number of games. Ipswich are currently 7 places above us in the current from table. But let's not mention it in case it shows that it is possible to work with someone else's players...

Of course it's possible, Coyle did it very well with Megson's. And then it became his own team....
No guarantee that either Dyche or McCarthy could have turned the bunch of soft arses we've got into consistent Championship battlers. I don't think we're any better off for points than of Coyle had stayed, but at this stage that neither means that OC should have stayed or that DF won't be a success in the future.

[Caribbean White]

I do think Dougie will succeed, how long that takes depends on how the club back him, Palace had limited finances yet he managed to source them finances with decent players, and in time turned those decent players into brilliant players with a decent resell value.

Coyle on the other hand signed decent players, then chose not to play them, hence no fvcker wants them/// Alonso aside.

Top and bottom side of this saga is Dougie will turn us around it may take time, but I reckon we are in a position to have the ride of our lives, lets stick by the guy.

[Norpig]

I cannot believe what I am reading, everybody wants instant success these days!!

DF so far has got our defence leaking less goals and with the players at his disposal is no mean feat, there is definitely a more positive feel about the place. Players seem more positive when interviewed. The players also seem fitter and we seem more organised.

The state we were in when he took over he has done as much as he could do, he has a reputation of bringing through youth players and buying average players and making them into better players. All this takes time nothing is going to happen overnight.

Big Sam did not turn the team around on a sixpence it took him 2 years to get promoted and then 3 years to establish us in the PL.

I think a little patience and we could have a very bright future give the guy a chance he will need at least 2 seasons to turn this shower around!!

[boltonboris]

I cannot believe what I am reading, everybody wants instant success these days!!

DF so far has got our defence leaking less goals and with the players at his disposal is no mean feat, there is definitely a more positive feel about the place. Players seem more positive when interviewed. The players also seem fitter and we seem more organised.

The state we were in when he took over he has done as much as he could do, he has a reputation of bringing through youth players and buying average players and making them into better players. All this takes time nothing is going to happen overnight.

Big Sam did not turn the team around on a sixpence it took him 2 years to get promoted and then 3 years to establish us in the PL.

I think a little patience and we could have a very bright future give the guy a chance he will need at least 2 seasons to turn this shower around!!

We 'seem' it, but I don't think we 'are' it..

[BWFC_Insane]

I cannot believe what I am reading, everybody wants instant success these days!!

DF so far has got our defence leaking less goals and with the players at his disposal is no mean feat, there is definitely a more positive feel about the place. Players seem more positive when interviewed. The players also seem fitter and we seem more organised.

The state we were in when he took over he has done as much as he could do, he has a reputation of bringing through youth players and buying average players and making them into better players. All this takes time nothing is going to happen overnight.

Big Sam did not turn the team around on a sixpence it took him 2 years to get promoted and then 3 years to establish us in the PL.

I think a little patience and we could have a very bright future give the guy a chance he will need at least 2 seasons to turn this shower around!!

We 'seem' it, but I don't think we 'are' it..

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

[Sponge]

I cannot believe what I am reading, everybody wants instant success these days!!

DF so far has got our defence leaking less goals and with the players at his disposal is no mean feat, there is definitely a more positive feel about the place. Players seem more positive when interviewed. The players also seem fitter and we seem more organised.

The state we were in when he took over he has done as much as he could do, he has a reputation of bringing through youth players and buying average players and making them into better players. All this takes time nothing is going to happen overnight.

Big Sam did not turn the team around on a sixpence it took him 2 years to get promoted and then 3 years to establish us in the PL.

I think a little patience and we could have a very bright future give the guy a chance he will need at least 2 seasons to turn this shower around!!

I completely agree, Norpig. But sadly we live in an era in which people expect – no, demand – immediate gratification and immediate, quantifiable results (in everything, not just football). Patience, tolerance, persistence – such concepts hold no value today. It's the scourge of modernity.

Feck it, I'm going to live in a cave somewhere; Tango: match-updates via messenger pigeon or smoke signal, please – whichever you prefer.

[Enoch]

Caves are so last year.

[thebish]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

[BWFC_Insane]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

1 less goal every 5 games could be a fair number of points over a season though. So even a relatively small improvement there can be worthwhile. And you'd hope to see that continue to improve.

[Bruce Rioja]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

Hmmm. My figures differ from yours slightly, Bish.

I've got Coyle down as 18 in 11. As such 1.64

[thebish]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

1 less goal every 5 games could be a fair number of points over a season though. So even a relatively small improvement there can be worthwhile. And you'd hope to see that continue to improve.

maybe... but there would be other factors involved - like how many we are scoring!! also - I don't know how you can attribute such a small variation to "being better organised..."

[thebish]

Hmmm. My figures differ from yours slightly, Bish.

I've got Coyle down as 18 in 11. As such 1.64

Burnley 2 - 0 L
Derby 2 - 0 W
Nottingham Forest 2 - 2 D
Crawley Town 2 - 1 L
Hull City 3 - 1 L
Watford 2 - 1 W
Birmingham 2 - 1 L
Sheff Wed 1 - 2 W
Crystal Palace 0 - 1 L
Leeds 2 - 2 D
Millwall 2 - 1 L

I have added it up again and it's 18! you're right! as you were!

[a1]

you dont get more points for clean sheets. anybody who thinks its a super important stat would get thrown out of Sabermetrics U.

theyve improved coz theyve not got semi-pro pingpong players telling them how to kick a football anymore.

so, theyve improved and they get more points now.

[Norpig]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

It may be a slow improvement, take away all the stats and start looking with your eyes there is an obvious improvement froma spectator point of view. The team looks more compact and we have started to close down the opposition for the first time since BSA left!!

Since our last good manager BSA we have been searching for someone to build the club from the kids upwards. IMHO DF is the first creditable one we have had

LSL - Tactically inept and a complete disaster (He was working without all the staff BSA took with and the players struggling after the loss of BSA)

Megson - He got us organised but we played with no forward momentum the fans did not agree with his appointment and this was the beginning of the downturn for me. We basically stood still and IMO the playing staff and backroom staff went downhill.

OC - Anybody who had taken over from the evil one above would have been welcomed with open arms he got off to a flyer on a wave of over optimism. The first blip and it all fell apart and as it turned out there was no substance to OC. He replaced good players with average players due to the pressure to cut the wage bill. The one good thing he did was put pressure on the youth system to start bringing through the kids.

So we have had the useless, the hated and the over excitable, I am all in favour of a slow build with hopefully some sort of success at the end of it. The only way we will find out if this guy is going to be a success or not is back him because he is our current manager therefore an honorary Bolton lad, be patient and hopefully we will all be rewarded.

[thebish]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

It may be a slow improvement, take away all the stats and start looking with your eyes there is an obvious improvement froma spectator point of view.

I was simply responding to the post that said we are conceding fewer goals. The best way of discussing that point (surely) is to use numbers?? (also - it is a good idea to add your numbers up right!! )

[Worthy4England]

We are conceding less are we not? Is that not the ultimate measure of being more organised?

hmmmm... marginally...

under Coyle we conceded 16 goals in 11 games = 1.454 goals per game

under Douggie we've conceded 21 goals in 17 games = 1.235 goals per game

so - that's an improvement of 0.2 goals per game - or - to make it tangible..

an improvement of not conceding 1 goal every 5 games... which IS an improvement, granted - but it takes some sensitive equipment to detect that - never mind attribute it to us being better organised with any certainty...

1 less goal every 5 games could be a fair number of points over a season though. So even a relatively small improvement there can be worthwhile. And you'd hope to see that continue to improve.

maybe... but there would be other factors involved - like how many we are scoring!! also - I don't know how you can attribute such a small variation to "being better organised..."

Indeed, 14 under Coyle in the games you mentioned (Burnley to Milwall) - so 1.27 per game

Now we're at 1.53 per game - again, hardly meteoric but small improvement nonetheless.

So to sum up - under OC we were conceding more than we were scoring per game, under Freedman we're scoring more then we're conceding per game - but it's cold comfort, unless you score more than you concede in each game.

[norm the jedi]

So on that basis.. people were too down on Coyle and they're too forgiving of Dougie?....
and the same players by and large produce broadly similar results whoever is in charge...
So may be the best clue too Dougie will be how he does with his own players..?

funny despite the stats two clean sheets away from home in a row looks like some progress to me..
[and for the record I still think it was an odd appointment.. still on the fence...]

[BWFC_Insane]

So on that basis.. people were too down on Coyle and they're too forgiving of Dougie?....
and the same players by and large produce broadly similar results whoever is in charge...
So may be the best clue too Dougie will be how he does with his own players..?

funny despite the stats two clean sheets away from home in a row looks like some progress to me..
[and for the record I still think it was an odd appointment.. still on the fence...]

Ermm surely the stats show that Coyle got away with murder and even though we are still not at the level required, far from it we are at least slowly getting better.