Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[boltonboris]

So really, you're saying we need to get Dawson, Wheater, Holden, Kamara, Mark Davies & Sordell in the team in a regular basis?

I agree. Wholeheartedly.

That's half of our (probably) best side, who haven't been available to us for the majority of the season.

[boltonboris]

^^ which is why I'm actually cutting Freedman some slack.

[BWFC_Insane]

The problem with our squad, for all that we have players of Premiership quality in it, is that we don't have the right players for this league in key positions, namely through the spine of the side.

Bogdan, Ream, Knight are always good to concede a goal. Spearing, Andrews, Vela, Pratley are all prob average League 1 players...and they give us an average League 1 level of possession, and none of our strike force score goals, which for me is the main issue. Sordell and Craig Davies may turn out to be an improvement but SKD, Ngog, Afobe (whilst he was here) just do not finish off chances that CYL, Mark Davies and Eagles (who are all arguably Prem quality) create. So we basically struggle to score many and are always likely to let in one or two...which is reflected in a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 defeats.

Freedman cannot resolve these issues in one winter transfer window. He needs to find the right characters and right players to strengthen the spine of our side for this league. Holden, Wheater, Mills, Medo may be part of the answer. However, until this is sorted we cannot expect much from this squad, and we have to hope we can stay up and mount a challenge next year whilst we are still in the upper tier of parachute payments.

Woahh there lets not get carried away, Spearing, Andrews, Vela and Pratley are absolutely fine for this level, certainly not "league 1". Whether they compliment each other properly, is a different matter.

I agree that our spine is weak. We haven't got a proper centre half. Ream and Knight are nowhere near physical or dominant enough for this division. We've lacked a proper dominating physical presence in our midfield. But then we have since Coyle decided to leave Muamba out.

And we've struggled up front as we don't really have anyone to lead the line consistently and offer the movement, pace and goal threat required in this division, especially in a 1 up front.

[BWFC_Insane]

But I think when you've suffered the downwards spiral we have it's dangerous to continually think a squad that as a unit has never performed to the standards required "suddenly will".

it would be remiss of me to point out that you used to believe that just a bit of organisation from just about any half competent manager would turn the whole ship around on a thrupenny bit...

Alright Sammy, didn't see you down there!

Anyhow, it would be "remiss" of me to point out to you that with the tens of millions of pounds and the future of the club at stake our then manager's approach to team strategy, tactics and organisation was, and I quote one of his very own signings, "willy nilly".

Willy fecking nilly.

It still upsets me that such negligence and gross incomptence has gone largely unchecked at our great football club.

[thebish]

But I think when you've suffered the downwards spiral we have it's dangerous to continually think a squad that as a unit has never performed to the standards required "suddenly will".

it would be remiss of me to point out that you used to believe that just a bit of organisation from just about any half competent manager would turn the whole ship around on a thrupenny bit...

Alright Sammy, didn't see you down there!

Anyhow, it would be "remiss" of me to point out to you that with the tens of millions of pounds and the future of the club at stake our then manager's approach to team strategy, tactics and organisation was, and I quote one of his very own signings, "willy nilly".

Willy fecking nilly.

It still upsets me that such negligence and gross incomptence has gone largely unchecked at our great football club.

I thought we had checked it in signing freedman and his new acey training methods... no??

(I like your little joke spelling the word "incompetence" wrong on purpose! )

[BWFC_Insane]

But I think when you've suffered the downwards spiral we have it's dangerous to continually think a squad that as a unit has never performed to the standards required "suddenly will".

it would be remiss of me to point out that you used to believe that just a bit of organisation from just about any half competent manager would turn the whole ship around on a thrupenny bit...

Alright Sammy, didn't see you down there!

Anyhow, it would be "remiss" of me to point out to you that with the tens of millions of pounds and the future of the club at stake our then manager's approach to team strategy, tactics and organisation was, and I quote one of his very own signings, "willy nilly".

Willy fecking nilly.

It still upsets me that such negligence and gross incompetence has gone largely unchecked at our great football club.

I thought we had checked it in signing freedman and his new acey training methods... no??

(I like your little joke spelling the word "incompetence" wrong on purpose! )

Yeah but not in time to save the premiership status.

Anyhow I'm going "hoboh" and by "checking" I mean Coyle's head on a stick or a pitchfork or sommat......

[Hoboh]

The problem with our squad, for all that we have players of Premiership quality in it, is that we don't have the right players for this league in key positions, namely through the spine of the side.

Bogdan, Ream, Knight are always good to concede a goal. Spearing, Andrews, Vela, Pratley are all prob average League 1 players...and they give us an average League 1 level of possession, and none of our strike force score goals, which for me is the main issue. Sordell and Craig Davies may turn out to be an improvement but SKD, Ngog, Afobe (whilst he was here) just do not finish off chances that CYL, Mark Davies and Eagles (who are all arguably Prem quality) create. So we basically struggle to score many and are always likely to let in one or two...which is reflected in a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 defeats.

Freedman cannot resolve these issues in one winter transfer window. He needs to find the right characters and right players to strengthen the spine of our side for this league. Holden, Wheater, Mills, Medo may be part of the answer. However, until this is sorted we cannot expect much from this squad, and we have to hope we can stay up and mount a challenge next year whilst we are still in the upper tier of parachute payments.

You'd never win that argument in a month of Sundays!

[Hoboh]

The problem with our squad, for all that we have players of Premiership quality in it, is that we don't have the right players for this league in key positions, namely through the spine of the side.

Bogdan, Ream, Knight are always good to concede a goal. Spearing, Andrews, Vela, Pratley are all prob average League 1 players...and they give us an average League 1 level of possession, and none of our strike force score goals, which for me is the main issue. Sordell and Craig Davies may turn out to be an improvement but SKD, Ngog, Afobe (whilst he was here) just do not finish off chances that CYL, Mark Davies and Eagles (who are all arguably Prem quality) create. So we basically struggle to score many and are always likely to let in one or two...which is reflected in a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 defeats.

Freedman cannot resolve these issues in one winter transfer window. He needs to find the right characters and right players to strengthen the spine of our side for this league. Holden, Wheater, Mills, Medo may be part of the answer. However, until this is sorted we cannot expect much from this squad, and we have to hope we can stay up and mount a challenge next year whilst we are still in the upper tier of parachute payments.

You'd never win that argument in a month of Sundays!

[Wandering Willy]

I've worked out why Hoboh's post count is so high.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I've worked out why Hoboh's post count is so high.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I've worked out why Hoboh's post count is so high.

[wigan white]

I think we all need to realise just how much crap Coyle has left us in. I'm not saying DF was the right choice to replace Coyle, but I like how he's "sorting the club out". He's not just sorting it in the short-term but seems to have a "Proper" long-term plan. Coyle left us in the mire, tactically, financially (although not just Coyle, but the previous regime) and with a bunch of overpaid and over-rated squad. Coyle always spoke of his long-term plan, but never seemed to do anything about it. DF on the other-hand is already investing in youth, has spoke of the need to improve the develpomental squad and the overall attitude and structure of the club. He seems to have implemented "proper" training methods and the team do look far more organised. Yes, some of his decisions do puzzle me, but I do think we've been fooled by Coyle into beliveing that our squad was full of amazing players, when infact it appears to have been filled with an over-paid bunch of pansies. DF seems to have realised who the committed were and who werent (hence Petrov leaving). He was never going to send us on a 20game winning streak due to how bad a state Coyle left us in. I am disappointed with the results but looking at the bigger picture shows the club is starting to improve again (albeit slowly) but DF seems to be doing the right things in the right way. I understand where BL3 comes from in that McCarthy may have improved us quicker, but looking at his track record, he's a "Short-term" manager and hasnt looked into the long term of a club. We cant keep chopping and changing the management each season and need to let DF establish his "plan" for the club. BL3 mentioned that the Ipswich squad were not as good as ours, why not??? they are used to playing in this division, is it because you dont know who these players are??? Just because Ipswich are in the championship doesnt mean that the squad isnt as good. We have a squad of players who got relegated from the Prem and struggled to adapt to the championship, so in terms of playing in this division, i would say that (prior to DF's new signings) maybe Ipswich's squad was better for this division than ours. We have to remember that just because a player played in the Premier league it doesnt necessarily make them premier league class.
Its proven in what the players have said about DF's methods, that training has improved and they're fitter as a result, and that they are more organised and have more sturcture to their play, which from player comments, wasnt happening under Coyle.
Also as for the Sordell/Ream situation, as Ream and DF have stated, when they signed for the club, they were left to their own devices, with Coyle having got rid of the player liaison, so its no wonder the players struggled to settle in at the club. DF seems to have addressed this and as a result these players are more settled and have started to show their true worth (apart from Reams stupid mistakes).
We need to realise there is no "quick fix" and that DF is re-building from the ground up, so he needs the support to get on with it.

Oh and the reason we "out-played" Everton and SUnderland is that our midfield had more time on the ball, whereas in the Championship they were closed down really quickly and harrassed constantly.

[CAPSLOCK]

One for Enoch - one thing folk kick DF with is that he 'tinkers'

Does he have previous or is it something new at Bolton?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

One for Enoch - one thing folk kick DF with is that he 'tinkers'

Does he have previous or is it something new at Bolton?

And another thing that folk (well, me anyway) kick DF with is that his press conferences are littered with 'strange turns of phrase' [protecting his family / having a twitter addiction / getting in players worse than the ones we've got, etc.] - did he do that darn sarf too?

[CAPSLOCK]

I don't give a shite what he says

I tolerated Allardyce calling me 'ignorant and naive'

[a1]

not really been taking notice, but the "owen coyle saying crazy things" siren, went off miles more.

[SmokinFrazier]

Let's get this straight. Fulham offered a nominal loan fee to take NGog on loan. Less that five hundred thousand.

Fiorentina were so sure on Alonso they wouldn't even match the 600K asking price to get him.

Nobody bid for LCY.

So let's get it in proportion. We had interest in a couple of players from higher placed clubs, but in neither case were they prepared to pay anything close to millions of pounds. In fact quite the opposite!

EDIT: And Norwich a premiership club actually signed Becchio from Leeds, who has spent quite a bit of time on the Leeds bench this season. Does that make the Leeds squad ace?

Fulham wanted to buy N'Gog initially and then that offer changed to a loan, with a few hundred thousand up front, and the bulk of the money in the future. The overall fee was rumoured to be around £2.5m.

Fiorentina don't need to pay anything. They wait until the summer and they get him on a free, so why would they offer more money for him? They aren't going to do that. They know that if they wait a few months, they get him for nothing. The fact Fiorentina were interested at all shows you that they think Alonso is worthy of being in a top flight league, yet many of our fans have castigated him all season.

It's true that nobody bid for Chungy but teams were interested, until we told them he wasn't for sale. The same goes for Mark Davies with Swansea. There was interest but because our asking price was too high, an offer never materialised.

And don't be disingenuous with the comment about Becchio. Ask any Leeds fan and they'll tell you he was their best player. Better than McCormack in their eyes. The only reason he was on the bench is because he wanted to leave and their manager had an issue with him, so he refused to play him regularly. He wasn't a squad player, he was their absolute best player in the squad and on the biggest wages.

[BWFC_Insane]

Let's get this straight. Fulham offered a nominal loan fee to take NGog on loan. Less that five hundred thousand.

Fiorentina were so sure on Alonso they wouldn't even match the 600K asking price to get him.

Nobody bid for LCY.

So let's get it in proportion. We had interest in a couple of players from higher placed clubs, but in neither case were they prepared to pay anything close to millions of pounds. In fact quite the opposite!

EDIT: And Norwich a premiership club actually signed Becchio from Leeds, who has spent quite a bit of time on the Leeds bench this season. Does that make the Leeds squad ace?

Fulham wanted to buy N'Gog initially and then that offer changed to a loan, with a few hundred thousand up front, and the bulk of the money in the future. The overall fee was rumoured to be around £2.5m.

Fiorentina don't need to pay anything. They wait until the summer and they get him on a free, so why would they offer more money for him? They aren't going to do that. They know that if they wait a few months, they get him for nothing. The fact Fiorentina were interested at all shows you that they think Alonso is worthy of being in a top flight league, yet many of our fans have castigated him all season.

It's true that nobody bid for Chungy but teams were interested, until we told them he wasn't for sale. The same goes for Mark Davies with Swansea. There was interest but because our asking price was too high, an offer never materialised.

And don't be disingenuous with the comment about Becchio. Ask any Leeds fan and they'll tell you he was their best player. Better than McCormack in their eyes. The only reason he was on the bench is because he wanted to leave and their manager had an issue with him, so he refused to play him regularly. He wasn't a squad player, he was their absolute best player in the squad and on the biggest wages.

I think you're making quite a lot up though.

Yes Fiorentina can wait, but equally the fact that they weren't prepared to pay £600K suggests they weren't exactly going "balls deep" to get Alonso. They more than likely fancy some "relatively cheap" backup for their squad.

It was reported that Fulham made a tentative enquiry for NGog on a loan deal with a small payment. But that it was never followed up or put in writing. Which I don't think tallies with what you are claiming.

Again reported that there were no bids for LCY. So I'm not entirely sure how you figure there was "interest". The lad has screws in his leg. Of course there would be interest if he was at bargain basement prices but the same goes for half the players in the championship, if they were available and cheap.

Lets also put into perspective....Man Utd agreed a deal with Palace for Zaha. Likely to be around the £15M mark. You name me one player we've got that would fetch that much? Or even half?

So I think using a few tenous links and a bit of "half hearted interest" in players to justify the squad quality is misguided.

We all know that the players we've got on "paper" are not bottom 5 championship material. HOWEVER, the group has never actually performed consistently for us over two years. So something is clearly missing. It could be the two manager and the temporary manager all couldn't get the best out of the squad.

However, it could be that the balance is wrong, there isn't enough mental strength in there collectively and that could explain the two years of failure. A squad was assembled that looked ok on paper but didn't have the right blend of characters and footballing abilities to do well. It won't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last!

[SmokinFrazier]

Yes Fiorentina can wait, but equally the fact that they weren't prepared to pay £600K suggests they weren't exactly going "balls deep" to get Alonso. They more than likely fancy some "relatively cheap" backup for their squad.

Fiorentina's left back is Manuel Pasqual, who is also their captain, so it's right to say Alonso wouldn't have been a starting left back for them. He wasn't for us at the start of the season. However, Pasqual is 30, so I think it'd be a long term signing.

Why rush a deal to sign a player who will sit on the bench, when you could wait 6 months and get him for free? The only thing that suggests is that Fiorentina want Alonso, are happy to wait to get him and aren't stupid enough to throw away money on getting him now.

It was reported that Fulham made a tentative enquiry for NGog on a loan deal with a small payment. But that it was never followed up or put in writing. Which I don't think tallies with what you are claiming.

Fulham wanted N'Gog last year for £3m, according to Nixon, and this year, they wanted him again and supposedly offered £2.6m, presumably after the loan deal was completed. We rejected that again, but to suggest there wasn't serious interest is wrong. Fulham wanted N'Gog and we wanted more than they'd offer.

Lets also put into perspective....Man Utd agreed a deal with Palace for Zaha. Likely to be around the £15M mark. You name me one player we've got that would fetch that much? Or even half?

What has that got to do with anything? That's not the point I'm making, at all. My point is that we have several players who have been wanted by top level clubs, not that we have one exceptional player who is worth tens of millions.

We all know that the players we've got on "paper" are not bottom 5 championship material. HOWEVER, the group has never actually performed consistently for us over two years. So something is clearly missing. It could be the two manager and the temporary manager all couldn't get the best out of the squad.

However, it could be that the balance is wrong, there isn't enough mental strength in there collectively and that could explain the two years of failure. A squad was assembled that looked ok on paper but didn't have the right blend of characters and footballing abilities to do well. It won't be the first time and it certainly won't be the last!

That's possible, yes. I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue with, is people saying our squad is "average" when it quite clearly isn't.

We have many international caps in the side, so there's plenty of top level experience there. Roughly adding our international caps up, we have around 200 in the squad. We have easily another 100 odd caps in Under 21/20/19/17 international games, for top nations too, so there is plenty of youth with ability there. How many other teams in the Championship can say the same about their depth of international quality? Most of our team have Premier League experience. How many other sides in the Championship can say that the bulk of their squad have played football in the best league in the world?

I have no issue at all saying that there is a problem with the mentality of the players, or that we maybe have an unequal balance within the squad. That's fine. However, as far as actual footballing ability goes, it's ridiculous to try and argue we lack ability. We have far more than an "average" squad.

[thebish]

That's possible, yes. I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue with, is people saying our squad is "average" when it quite clearly isn't.

unless he has changed his mind again (which is possible) - I don't remember BWFCi saying the squad is "average" - he said it was all utter shoite and uncoachable and he would have binned the lot of them.