Game for the Poaching at Forest!

[BWFC_Insane]

I may be wrong (I often am !), but I can't understand Freedman's constant whinging about money - have the board not backed Freedman since he came to the club. He's been allowed to sign....Medo, Spearing, Beckford, Tierney, Baptiste, Moritz, C Davies, Hall plus the other 3 or 4 younger players.

All of those named above where surely brought in by Freedman to improve the 1st team, otherwise why sign them and waste valuable money that could have been used in other areas of the team. Surely the strategy is to work on a system / formation / style of play that he likes and thinks can win football matches in this division first, and then identify the weak areas of that formation and then bring players in to fit into those positions to improve the team and play to his style.

You don't just buy a player or players for the sake of it and then work on a system to try to get the best out of them, it should be the other way around. I still don't think that Freedman knows what system to play.

I agree with the spending side to an extent. If you'd asked me where we were really short on players at the start of last season, I'd have probably said CB's - at least one please. Holding type MF and an out and out striker (one who can actually score).

As I look at it now, we've probably sorted one of those out by signing Spearing.

We've tried to sort a second out by signing Davies and Beckford - but not sure either of them will work, N'gog probably won't either (on historical form).

Out of what we had on the Park yesterday, there's at least 8 of them that must be doubtful of a place. If I'm picking my team at the moment, I say on current form

Bogdan
Spearing
Pratley

Then who else? That's too many first team players nothing like "nailed on" for a start.

We are missing Holden, Eagles and Mavies, but two of those are starting to look like Quenton Fortune would be a better bet, and we certainly have a squad big enough.

Tierney is a definite for me to add to that list.

[Worthy4England]

I may be wrong (I often am !), but I can't understand Freedman's constant whinging about money - have the board not backed Freedman since he came to the club. He's been allowed to sign....Medo, Spearing, Beckford, Tierney, Baptiste, Moritz, C Davies, Hall plus the other 3 or 4 younger players.

All of those named above where surely brought in by Freedman to improve the 1st team, otherwise why sign them and waste valuable money that could have been used in other areas of the team. Surely the strategy is to work on a system / formation / style of play that he likes and thinks can win football matches in this division first, and then identify the weak areas of that formation and then bring players in to fit into those positions to improve the team and play to his style.

You don't just buy a player or players for the sake of it and then work on a system to try to get the best out of them, it should be the other way around. I still don't think that Freedman knows what system to play.

I agree with the spending side to an extent. If you'd asked me where we were really short on players at the start of last season, I'd have probably said CB's - at least one please. Holding type MF and an out and out striker (one who can actually score).

As I look at it now, we've probably sorted one of those out by signing Spearing.

We've tried to sort a second out by signing Davies and Beckford - but not sure either of them will work, N'gog probably won't either (on historical form).

Out of what we had on the Park yesterday, there's at least 8 of them that must be doubtful of a place. If I'm picking my team at the moment, I say on current form

Bogdan
Spearing
Pratley

Then who else? That's too many first team players nothing like "nailed on" for a start.

We are missing Holden, Eagles and Mavies, but two of those are starting to look like Quenton Fortune would be a better bet, and we certainly have a squad big enough.

Tierney is a definite for me to add to that list.

Ok, we add Tierney - that's still 7 of them, that if they didn't appear on the team sheet, I wouldn't be too fussed...

[BWFC_Insane]

I may be wrong (I often am !), but I can't understand Freedman's constant whinging about money - have the board not backed Freedman since he came to the club. He's been allowed to sign....Medo, Spearing, Beckford, Tierney, Baptiste, Moritz, C Davies, Hall plus the other 3 or 4 younger players.

All of those named above where surely brought in by Freedman to improve the 1st team, otherwise why sign them and waste valuable money that could have been used in other areas of the team. Surely the strategy is to work on a system / formation / style of play that he likes and thinks can win football matches in this division first, and then identify the weak areas of that formation and then bring players in to fit into those positions to improve the team and play to his style.

You don't just buy a player or players for the sake of it and then work on a system to try to get the best out of them, it should be the other way around. I still don't think that Freedman knows what system to play.

I agree with the spending side to an extent. If you'd asked me where we were really short on players at the start of last season, I'd have probably said CB's - at least one please. Holding type MF and an out and out striker (one who can actually score).

As I look at it now, we've probably sorted one of those out by signing Spearing.

We've tried to sort a second out by signing Davies and Beckford - but not sure either of them will work, N'gog probably won't either (on historical form).

Out of what we had on the Park yesterday, there's at least 8 of them that must be doubtful of a place. If I'm picking my team at the moment, I say on current form

Bogdan
Spearing
Pratley

Then who else? That's too many first team players nothing like "nailed on" for a start.

We are missing Holden, Eagles and Mavies, but two of those are starting to look like Quenton Fortune would be a better bet, and we certainly have a squad big enough.

Tierney is a definite for me to add to that list.

Ok, we add Tierney - that's still 7 of them, that if they didn't appear on the team sheet, I wouldn't be too fussed...

Probably a little harsh on Medo that and Baptiste.

Get the point you're making. I hope it's just a missing ingredient rather than the whole thing being fecked.

[Worthy4England]

I remain to be convinced about Medo and Pratters being in the same 5. With Spearing in there, it sort of feels like 3 players doing 2 players jobs. And on form, Pratters gets in, in front of Medo.

Medo drifts in and out for me, then has a whack at goal and everyone say's "that's great"....

Baptiste, not writing off, but want to see more of.

[BWFC_Insane]

I remain to be convinced about Medo and Pratters being in the same 5. With Spearing in there, it sort of feels like 3 players doing 2 players jobs. And on form, Pratters gets in, in front of Medo.

Medo drifts in and out for me, then has a whack at goal and everyone say's "that's great"....

Baptiste, not writing off, but want to see more of.

Pratley is free to get into the box with those two behind him. Which I'd like to see more of. The trouble is that we need a striker to bring Pratley into the game in that system and Eagles in out wide as an outlet to give us more chance of keeping the ball.

Medo and Spearing are probably needed to protect the centre halves until we find someone who can defend and organise to a vaguely competent level.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I can't understand Freedman's constant whinging about money - have the board not backed Freedman since he came to the club. He's been allowed to sign....Medo, Spearing, Beckford, Tierney, Baptiste, Moritz, C Davies, Hall plus the other 3 or 4 younger players.

Besides Spearing (try before you buy, player of the season, still only cost the same we paid for Chris Fairclough in 1995), they weren't expensive: Medo was about £500k, C Davies £300k, Hall tbc, the others free. I get your point that he has been allowed to sign players, but he has also overseen some exits: Martin Petrov, Kevin Davies, Keith Andrews, Sam Ricketts, Marvin Sordell, Marcos Alonso, Gregg Wylde (there may be more)... and we're still unable to shift some high-payrollers, granted bountiful contracts as late as last summer. It says something that we're apparently not signing a defender (despite desperate need) until we get one off the books. And of those centre-backs, he only signed Cian Bolger – again, for buttons.

All of those named above where surely brought in by Freedman to improve the 1st team, otherwise why sign them and waste valuable money that could have been used in other areas of the team.

Not all, not immediately, and I don't mind that: not every signing is there to be the new star man... especially when you're not betting the farm on them. For example, Craig Davies was well worth a £300k punt but you wouldn't want him to be your only hope, to the exclusion of all others; I'm glad he signed because he offers a robust energy that our other strikers didn't, and still don't, offer.

Surely the strategy is to work on a system / formation / style of play that he likes and thinks can win football matches in this division first, and then identify the weak areas of that formation and then bring players in to fit into those positions to improve the team and play to his style. You don't just buy a player or players for the sake of it and then work on a system to try to get the best out of them, it should be the other way around. I still don't think that Freedman knows what system to play.

Again, I see your point, but again I disagree. I think he wants to play the same fluid 4-2-3-1 as at Palace, but hasn't always had the players to do it so has tried other formations. Had he stuck rigidly to a formation his players didn't fit, he'd get "square pegs" thrown at him - and indeed I note he has by other posters...

I may be wrong (I often am !)

I like you, PT. Nothing wrong with having beliefs and being prepared to discuss them.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I remain to be convinced about Medo and Pratters being in the same 5. With Spearing in there, it sort of feels like 3 players doing 2 players jobs. And on form, Pratters gets in, in front of Medo.

Medo drifts in and out for me, then has a whack at goal and everyone say's "that's great"....

Baptiste, not writing off, but want to see more of.

Pratley is free to get into the box with those two behind him. Which I'd like to see more of. The trouble is that we need a striker to bring Pratley into the game in that system and Eagles in out wide as an outlet to give us more chance of keeping the ball.

Medo and Spearing are probably needed to protect the centre halves until we find someone who can defend and organise to a vaguely competent level.

I see W4E's point that they're a very uncreative middle three. Prats bursting Nolan-like into the box is a fine idea (and worked against pre-season favourites Reading) but all your 'difficult' creativity – actually making things happen - has to come down the wings, which is much easier to defend. In those instances, Medo and Spearing have to improve their passing, rather than simply shuttling it sideways, as Keith Andrews was so regularly insulted for doing.

Put simply, with Medo/Spearing/Prats as the middle 3, we're harder-working and more solid but we've no playmaker. I like Prats but he's never a winger and he's not one for quick interpassing a la Mavies/Moritz/Eagles, so we can get a bit easy to nullify - which inevitably puts a premium on our defending. I suspect this happened a lot in the good run last season – plenty of 1-0 wins – but even if we had Medo/Spearing/Prats as a solid midfield three, you still wouldn't expect a clean sheet.

[Worthy4England]

I remain to be convinced about Medo and Pratters being in the same 5. With Spearing in there, it sort of feels like 3 players doing 2 players jobs. And on form, Pratters gets in, in front of Medo.

Medo drifts in and out for me, then has a whack at goal and everyone say's "that's great"....

Baptiste, not writing off, but want to see more of.

Pratley is free to get into the box with those two behind him. Which I'd like to see more of. The trouble is that we need a striker to bring Pratley into the game in that system and Eagles in out wide as an outlet to give us more chance of keeping the ball.

Medo and Spearing are probably needed to protect the centre halves until we find someone who can defend and organise to a vaguely competent level.

And there's the nub of it. He's probably doing more Medo-ing than Medo, so we look woefully short with that 5 we put out yesterday and nowt much up front (not much different than last week). Without Eagles, we have bugger all.

Edit: What DSB said.

[Gail Platz]

Wow. Well, we were totally outclassed by a side that didn't do much other than put in a solid performance and showed that they wanted the win.

I haven't seen such a gulf in class since we were thumped 5-0 by Man United at home a few years ago..... and this is Forest we're talking about.

It was the most heartless, not-give-a-toss performance I've seen in years. I thought our support was pretty poor too.

The only good bit about the day was spending 2 and a half hours in Hooters before the game!

[Bruce Rioja]

I haven't seen such a gulf in class since we were thumped 5-0 by Man United at home a few years ago..... and this is Forest we're talking about.

Behave yourself.

[Worthy4England]

I haven't seen such a gulf in class since we were thumped 5-0 by Man United at home a few years ago..... and this is Forest we're talking about.

Behave yourself.

At half time, I was still thinking we might nick a point.

[LeverEnd]

I haven't seen such a gulf in class since we were thumped 5-0 by Man United at home a few years ago..... and this is Forest we're talking about.

Behave yourself.

At half time, I was still thinking we might nick a point.

Me too, as we weren't playing too badly at that point. Then we concede sloppily again. It worries me even more if we don't play too badly and still get botty-spanked.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Feeling brave? Apparently, there's 15 minutes of highlights hither:
http://seatpitch.co.uk/2013/08/17/fans- ... -0-bolton/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[plymouth wanderer]

I haven't seen such a gulf in class since we were thumped 5-0 by Man United at home a few years ago..... and this is Forest we're talking about.

Behave yourself.

^^

We were the better team first half (despite being behind)

Dust ourselves off and go again

[thebish]

maybe it's a particular skill that only a few managers have - to take an ill-matched team of not-THAT-promising notsuperstars and blend them into something well beyond the sum of their parts. I was hoping Dougie might have some of that - but it's not that obvious to date - I've not given up on him weaving some magic - nowhere near given up - we're only 3 games in - but - maybe it's just the inevitable start-of-season optimism - I have to confess i am a little disappointed that he hasn't made more of the hand he's been dealt in our first three games...

I only watched the first three games on streams - so probably missed a whole lot - but none of them gave me the impression that we were anything like a well-oiled machine or a group of players who were all committed to a plan where they all knew their place and gave everything they had to the effort to win...

ahh well - despite appearances, i am a stubbornly optimistic person - it'll be reet!

[e1865]

Forest fan in peace.

I do agree to an extent that you weren't outplayed in the first half. I wouldn't say you were the better team at all, mostly down to the fact that you didn't really have a shot to speak of. You looked good though and it was the hardest half we've had all season. It must be alarming for you however how quickly you gave up after Reid scored. All your intensity vanished, the midfield stopped chasing and it looked like it was a race for the first red card.

You'll be fine though. You're better than Blackburn, far better than Huddersfield and will be mid-table at the very least. All you need is to convert possession and incisive running into genuine chances. I may be wrong, but I think you only had one shot on target all game yesterday, that being a weak 25 yarder straight at Darlow.

On the subject of Reid, he might have complained but it was a two footed lunge that Medo somehow got away with. The horror challenge of his own was only after Wheater (i think) had wrapped his arms all round him with no free kick. Frustration often boils over with Reidy. I think that if the inept referee had sent off Medo or Pratley in the first half then Reid's tackle doesn't happen.

[plymouth wanderer]

Forest fan in peace.

I do agree to an extent that you weren't outplayed in the first half. I wouldn't say you were the better team at all, mostly down to the fact that you didn't really have a shot to speak of. You looked good though and it was the hardest half we've had all season. It must be alarming for you however how quickly you gave up after Reid scored. All your intensity vanished, the midfield stopped chasing and it looked like it was a race for the first red card.

You'll be fine though. You're better than Blackburn, far better than Huddersfield and will be mid-table at the very least. All you need is to convert possession and incisive running into genuine chances. I may be wrong, but I think you only had one shot on target all game yesterday, that being a weak 25 yarder straight at Darlow.

On the subject of Reid, he might have complained but it was a two footed lunge that Medo somehow got away with. The horror challenge of his own was only after Wheater (i think) had wrapped his arms all round him with no free kick. Frustration often boils over with Reidy. I think that if the inept referee had sent off Medo or Pratley in the first half then Reid's tackle doesn't happen.

But he still should of got a red no matter what way you cut it

Don't think you'll find a Bolton fan who'll disagree with you on Medo

Considering I saw Forest players whinging at the ref for every little thing and then pratters get a second yellow for dissent sticks in the throat a little

Ref was way to inconsistent

When we get our house in order it'll be a different game at the Bok

[LeverEnd]

Forest fan in peace.

I do agree to an extent that you weren't outplayed in the first half. I wouldn't say you were the better team at all, mostly down to the fact that you didn't really have a shot to speak of. You looked good though and it was the hardest half we've had all season. It must be alarming for you however how quickly you gave up after Reid scored. All your intensity vanished, the midfield stopped chasing and it looked like it was a race for the first red card.

You'll be fine though. You're better than Blackburn, far better than Huddersfield and will be mid-table at the very least. All you need is to convert possession and incisive running into genuine chances. I may be wrong, but I think you only had one shot on target all game yesterday, that being a weak 25 yarder straight at Darlow.

On the subject of Reid, he might have complained but it was a two footed lunge that Medo somehow got away with. The horror challenge of his own was only after Wheater (i think) had wrapped his arms all round him with no free kick. Frustration often boils over with Reidy. I think that if the inept referee had sent off Medo or Pratley in the first half then Reid's tackle doesn't happen.

So the poor lamb didn't get a decision and that justifies a horror challenge? Nice one. Medo should've gone of course, but at least he went for the ball. Your mate 'Reidy' went for the man, nothing else, pure revenge tackle.
If you want to justify that go and do it in peace on your own board.

[Worthy4England]

Forest fan in peace.

I do agree to an extent that you weren't outplayed in the first half. I wouldn't say you were the better team at all, mostly down to the fact that you didn't really have a shot to speak of. You looked good though and it was the hardest half we've had all season. It must be alarming for you however how quickly you gave up after Reid scored. All your intensity vanished, the midfield stopped chasing and it looked like it was a race for the first red card.

You'll be fine though. You're better than Blackburn, far better than Huddersfield and will be mid-table at the very least. All you need is to convert possession and incisive running into genuine chances. I may be wrong, but I think you only had one shot on target all game yesterday, that being a weak 25 yarder straight at Darlow.

On the subject of Reid, he might have complained but it was a two footed lunge that Medo somehow got away with. The horror challenge of his own was only after Wheater (i think) had wrapped his arms all round him with no free kick. Frustration often boils over with Reidy. I think that if the inept referee had sent off Medo or Pratley in the first half then Reid's tackle doesn't happen.

Reasonable observations.

I think we were probably down your end at least as much as you being up our end first half, without ever creating too much that threatened the keeper. The one we did put in the net was offside, but fine margins and all that - not a lot in it, so we could've gone in 1 a piece at half time.

Other than that, I'd agree not much troubling your keeper, which if you read the rest of the thread I reckon you'd find is a reoccurring theme.

Medo probably a red. I don't buy Reid tackle wouldn't have happened - he's a dirty git, and two wrongs etc.

[thebish]

I think we were probably down your end at least as much as you being up our end first half, without ever creating too much that threatened the keeper. The one we did put in the net was offside, but fine margins and all that - not a lot in it, so we could've gone in 1 a piece at half time.

did it actually go in??