PLYMOUTH'S stupendously all singing dancing transfer thread!

[Athers]

Sturridge is on record as saying he loved training at Bolton because all they ever did was 5-a-side and he never got to do that at Chelsea

Is exactly what I was referring to.

In fact it was Rushden, mentioned above, who he told this to. I believe it was 'once every two weeks' they got a game of 5/7-a-side at Chelsea, compared to every day at Bolton. This is of course very enjoyable for keeping players enjoying training but not good enough for professional set up.

Probably Chelsea were busy working on corners

[StaffsTrotter]

Sturridge is on record as saying he loved training at Bolton because all they ever did was 5-a-side and he never got to do that at Chelsea

funny how this is turning into a coyle v freedman debate

however even if it were true is 5 a side discredited as training method ?

there is this sturridge quote taken from the chelsea tv website

'I enjoyed my time at Bolton and I have a lot of love for the players and a lot of love for the manager especially, because he gave me the opportunities to showcase what I can do and I don't think I would be in the position I am in now without going to Bolton and without the manager there showing faith in me.'

Training under Coyle especially stays in the Sturridge memory.

'He is a funny character and not just Owen but his staff also, they get involved in training every day and you see the manager scoring goals and celebrating and throwing remarks about. He knows how to motivate a team and he knows how to motivate individuals.

'I can't speak highly enough of him and the way he likes to play his football. It is attacking and six or seven years ago everyone didn't like playing against Bolton because of the aggressive side, but he is trying to adapt that and bring players in who can play football.'

I don't really see it a Coyle/Freedman debate. And if it is, it's not a fair one. Dress it up however people want, but as I said before Freedman is looking for players for the bottom half of the Championship (his own fault or not), and Coyle's succesful loans player are from a time when we were an established Premier League team.

The training / ping pong thing is probably exaggerated. But when you've got a reputation for
* Playing table tennis etc.
* Not working on structure/set plays
* Letting your Max Rushden / your 16 year old son join in with training sessions
* Playing lots of 5 a side and joining in yourself
* Not scouting opposition properly and focussing "on our own game"

you're leaving yourself open for criticism when things go wrong.

Before anyone starts, Freedman is far from perfect and as I have stated in other threads, I am beginning to lose the faith I had in him. Still hold the previous bloke a lot more culpable for where we are at the moment than him though, club "legend" or not.

I really don't get this lowering of expectations - that way lies Div 3. At the start of this season we were favourites to go up, had just missed out on play offs etc, had a good squad on paper, still had PL payments, have fantastic facilities. Surely theres enough material there to sell the club to a fringe or bright young PL player, if we were so inclined

Coyle's two stand out loan signings were Sturridge and Wilshere. Kakuta, Weiss, Miyachi and Boyata were all gash. As Boris mentioned above, their reputations were well known before Coyle got involved. I doff my hat to him that he persuaded them to come, but I repeat it was for first team premier league football, not bottom half championship. We even ditched our own overpriced Elmander to the right wing during his only good spell for us to accommodate Sturridge!

There are so many more teams ahead of us in the queue for that sort of player now, because of where we are at positionally and financially.

perhaps ponder on this quote from Karl Oyston Blackpool chairman at a fans event this week

Q. We have a lot of loans in, are we looking to make them permanent?

A. Not as a hard rule, no.

We’ve been promoted twice due to good use of the loan system.

Some of the loan players we’d never be able to sign due to the wages.

We have some players on loan who have huge contracts at their parent clubs

[Bruce Rioja]

Coyle wanted to take Wilshere on loan when he was at Burnley, so obviously Wenger was prepared to loan him to any club that Coyle was in charge of.

Have you anything to support this notion that Arsenal were up for loaning Wilshere to Burnley?

[bobo the clown]

Coyle wanted to take Wilshere on loan when he was at Burnley, so obviously Wenger was prepared to loan him to any club that Coyle was in charge of.

Have you anything to support this notion that Arsenal were up for loaning Wilshere to Burnley?

Bruce, it was the case.

At the time we took Coyle he'd already set up that loan and the purchase of some American called Holden. When he came to us those deals proceeded ... but to us.

[plymouth wanderer]

Coyle wanted to take Wilshere on loan when he was at Burnley, so obviously Wenger was prepared to loan him to any club that Coyle was in charge of.

Have you anything to support this notion that Arsenal were up for loaning Wilshere to Burnley?

Seem to recall it was something Coyle mentioned - nothing concrete though.

He did mention it........ over and over and over a fvcking again

[Bruce Rioja]

Well I never knew that.

[boltonboris]

At the start of the season AFTER he'd signed the defender (that he'd signed to play right back) on sizeable wages.

how do you know detailed stuff like this boris- do you work at the club ?

I went to the fans forum, where he was asked about the Chelsea loan and he gave an in depth answer. When the forum was on, we'd already signed baptiste.

[StaffsTrotter]

At the start of the season AFTER he'd signed the defender (that he'd signed to play right back) on sizeable wages.

how do you know detailed stuff like this boris- do you work at the club ?

I went to the fans forum, where he was asked about the Chelsea loan and he gave an in depth answer. When the forum was on, we'd already signed baptiste.

I always though having intelligence about other teams players/ youth stars and sounding out their manager early & consistently of the ones you were interested in was a pretty fundamantal part of being a manager. Appreciate you are in the other managers hands, who may not make their decision until just before a season starts, but still sounds a bit shit. I'd have been more reassured if DF had said he'd expressed an interest in X or Y but he wasn't available, didn't fancy us or we couldnt do a deal. The way its been put suggests he went to them late, asked what was available, was given a list and didn't fancy any of them. Appreciate we will never know the actual timeline/ circumstance.

[TKIZ!]

It's almost like getting two new players:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... s/10780596._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

[bobo the clown]

It's almost like getting two new players:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... s/10780596._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Yep ... Mavies could be playing again by February and Holden back training with us about then.

Yay.

[bwfcdan94]

It's almost like getting two new players:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... s/10780596._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Assuming they are just as good as when they got injured which we all know they probably wont be.

[bean]

It's almost like getting two new players:

http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/wa ... s/10780596._/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?

Yep ... Mavies could be playing again by February and Holden back training with us about then.

Yay.

Wahey, so what we're saying is Holden can be injured again by March!

(For the record, I obviously hope this doesn't happen. It just will)

[malcd1]

Bolton apparently after Cardiff striker Rudy Gestede. Can anyone confirm if this is an Oracle exclusive. I've not seen him play but not got a great scoring record (is he any good Dan?).

At 25 he is not an inexperienced kid and played a fair few games when Cardiff were in the Championship. Doesn't look like he has played this season though.

[TKIZ!]

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else. 53 games and 7 goals according to Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Gestede" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[malcd1]

Wigan after Craig Dawson who wasn't even on West Brom's bench yesterday.

[TKIZ!]

Wigan after Craig Dawson who wasn't even on West Brom's bench yesterday.

Gutted. But then Ream and Mills aren't doing terribly, are they?

[BL3]

Ream and Mills are shit. The experts have told us so.

[Worthy4England]

Ream and Mills are shit. The experts have told us so.

Not sure anything changes that. As an expert pointed out, they just managed to keep to "nil"

a team who are bottom of the current form table with one whole win in their last seven games.

[TKIZ!]

Ream and Mills are shit. The experts have told us so.

Not sure anything changes that. As an expert pointed out, they just managed to keep to "nil"

a team who are bottom of the current form table with one whole win in their last seven games.

It does seem silly that someone wants to fiss on our chips when we win

Plus, you can only beat whats put in front of you

[Lord Kangana]

Nothing has changed. At all. Nothing. We always do what we've always done.

Simply not true, Lord.

Coyle was happy to borrow the best young players in the country, and I was happy for him to do it while it turned up trumps like Wilshere and Sturridge; I was also happy to accept that it wouldn't always work (Kakuta, etc) and didn't hold that against Coyle.

Then Freedman came in and said he'd rather not develop other team's players - which is a change. I wasn't convinced, but at least it's an ethos, and I wasn't going to lose faith in Freedman over it. Since then, he has loaned in McNaughton/Feeney/Danns, another apparent change. Again, it didn't make me run for the hills, not least because we needed new blood.

Change does happen, and it's not always bad.

Sorry, there is no structural change. We're still loaning players in to make up the numbers. Highly promising future England internationalists or experienced Championship sloggers, it makes not a jot of difference.

Sturridge scored 8 in 12 for us. Too much focussing on the means rather than the ends has confuserated people's minds as to what actually happened on the pitch.