Freedman out!

[SmokinFrazier]

He's not worse than Coyle.

He obviously is. Coyle has done far more in his managerial career and is a lot better tactically. I won't expand on that too much because it'll seem like I rate Coyle, which I don't, but he's clearly a superior manager to Freedman. Coyle's career statistics are better and they're also better as Bolton manager, despite the fact we were in a tougher league for the majority of Coyle's reign.

None of that was a defense of Freedman.

The damage to this club was done upon relegation from the premiership. Since then it has been a repair job.

That was the point people buried their heads. I did say at the time should we go down we could be outside the top flight for years if not longer. You buried your head then.

The horse bolted then and the fact we haven't found someone who has been able to catch it and put it back is sad, but still the most frustrating thing is the door was left wide open for so long.

You're deflecting the criticism onto other things as a means of defending Freedman. Mentioning Eddie Davies' interest and FFP is completely besides the point and has nothing to do with Freedman's failure as a manager, yet rather than address that criticism of him properly, you always push the discussion onto another subject. Those things are irrelevant to our performances and position.

We have a talented group of players who should, at the very least, have finished in the top 8 this season. Failure to do so hasn't got the slightest thing to do with money or anything else, the failure has got to be pinned on Freedman who, time and time again, has shown himself up to be a very limited manager. You can talk about our financial issues all you want but they don't have an affect on our performances int he slightest. They aren't the reason for our awful tactics every week, the poor signings, the illogical substitutions, lack of confidence and a lack of faith within the manager. The person responsible for all that is Freedman, which is why he's failed in every area of his job.

And, no, I didn't bury my head when you said that we could be outside the top flight for years, I correctly said that it didn't need to be the case. Teams who get relegated don't have to sell every quality player they've got, go down to League One, spend 12 years rebuilding before they finally mount a challenge to get back into the Premier League. We were relegated with a side that narrowly missed out on surviving in the best league in the world, and we still have, as Dougie says, that same 'nucleus' of players. Bogdan, Eagles, Ream, Knight, Wheater, Pratley, Holden, Chungy, Davies, Vela, Mears and Riley were all part of our Premier League squad, so why can't we get a manager who has a clue how to get the most out of those players?! Why do we have to accept a turnaround period? If Owen Coyle is such a disastrous manager then why can't we appoint something slightly better than him, to get us promoted in an inferior league? We don't need to be rebuild, we need to hire a manager who can get the most out of our squad, just like Wigan have done by appointing Rosler as a successor to Coyle. Do Wigan need a lengthy period to rebuild or can they get promoted this season or the next?

For what it's worth, Wigan are 4 points off the play-offs and they've got a game in hand. Maybe someone should remind them that they need to sell all their best players and spend the next 10 years rebuilding rather than trying to go straight back up. How dare they hire a manager who knows what he's doing!

We could have got promoted last season. We could have got promoted this season. We can get promoted next year. However, that won't happen if we strip all the quality we've got and instead focus on a long term revival. That isn't necessary when you've got a group of players who can get promoted. We wouldn't have got promoted under Coyle and we won't under Freedman, because they're both atrocious managers, but how about giving the job to someone who has a clue?

The failure of our season lies solely at the feet of Freedman. He is the one responsible for the mess we're in on the pitch, nobody else.

Looks this is rather dull. Whoever the manager is next season they won't have the services of any of our out of contract players. Apart from possibly Stuart Holden. And the manager, whoever that is won't have any choice in the matter.

The club isn't rebuilding out of choice or some sort of masochistic streak. They are doing it because there seemingly, isn't any other choice.

Keep banging the good manager drum if you like. That was needed in November 2011, when this whole mess could have been prevented. But funnily enough only some on here could see that and you weren't one of them.......

Yeah, it could have been prevented but so what? I don't care about the past, I care about what is happening now. You might be happy being resigned to a lengthy rebuilding process but I'm not, especially when we already have a squad of players who are capable of a lot more than what they're showing right now. There is no reason we couldn't have got promoted this year, other than the fact Freedman is our manager. With someone capable in charge, we could have been in the play-offs right now, thinking about either improving in the Championship for next season or looking forward to next year in the Premier League. Instead, it's February and we're down near the relegation zone. That is entirely the fault of Freedman.

And it's not like there's going to be a mass exodus in the summer. The only quality players we have who could leave are Eagles, Moritz and Holden. I expect all three to stay. We managed to get Mark Davies to sign a longer deal, so I'm sure we can do the same for them.

[Hoboh]

Look bwfci
Is freedman a good manager or not?
Simple question only needs a one word answer.
Then question two
Should he stay or go?
Again one word will do.

[jaffka]

Look bwfci
Is freedman a good manager or not?
Simple question only needs a one word answer.
Then question two
Should he stay or go?
Again one word will do.

I have asked this question.

I don't think he wants to answer it.

[Bruce Rioja]

The horse bolted then and the fact we haven't found someone who has been able to catch it and put it back is sad, but still the most frustrating thing is the door was left wide open for so long.

Goodness me. Did someone leave the cake out in the rain as well?

[Andy Waller]

The horse bolted then and the fact we haven't found someone who has been able to catch it and put it back is sad, but still the most frustrating thing is the door was left wide open for so long.

Goodness me. Did someone leave the cake out in the rain as well?

OOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

Possibly one of the best songs ever.

[Gravedigger]

Just picked this up from the Bolton News Forum. Might be gash but who knows given everything that's happening.

Dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I will carry on regardless.
Just had a very interesting conversation with the owner of a well known hardware shop in Bolton. Dont jump down my throat I am only repeating what I`ve been told.
I`m not any use on the business side of things but I will try to tell you some of what he told me.............in a nutshell.

DF is staying because the club is "winding down." Eddie Davies is selling to some company called Emerson. I just got lost in it all eventually, but KIA, whoever they are, are involved also. Hargreaves will be running the club. Thats it in a nutshell.

[coffeymagic]

I have said this before but I firmly believe Freedman is willing to relegate this club in order to prove a point.

A sociopathic urge to fulfil somekind of perveted masturabtory fantasy that 1-0 is enough to win a game of football.

Of course 1-0 IS enough to win ANY game of football.

Just not EVERY game of football.

Yesterday I thought he was about to achieve his ultimate wet dream. As I left my desk at work we were 1-0 up. By the time I'd got down in to the foyet we'd been awarded a penalty and then...and then....

Those two or three minutes encaspulate Freedman's reighn of tyranny perfectly for me.

The bare minimum is more than enough for this prick.

Who we are stuck with for ever.

Our only hope is that a meteorite hits him on the way to work tomorrow.

[Annoyed Grunt]

Just picked this up from the Bolton News Forum. Might be gash but who knows given everything that's happening.

Dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I will carry on regardless.
Just had a very interesting conversation with the owner of a well known hardware shop in Bolton. Dont jump down my throat I am only repeating what I`ve been told.
I`m not any use on the business side of things but I will try to tell you some of what he told me.............in a nutshell.

DF is staying because the club is "winding down." Eddie Davies is selling to some company called Emerson. I just got lost in it all eventually, but KIA, whoever they are, are involved also. Hargreaves will be running the club. Thats it in a nutshell.

This Emerson ?

[Prufrock]

He's not worse than Coyle.

He obviously is. Coyle has done far more in his managerial career and is a lot better tactically. I won't expand on that too much because it'll seem like I rate Coyle, which I don't, but he's clearly a superior manager to Freedman. Coyle's career statistics are better and they're also better as Bolton manager, despite the fact we were in a tougher league for the majority of Coyle's reign.

please, feel free! Everyone is now aware you don't rate Coyle, so expand briefly on how he is better 'tactically' than Freedman.

Unless of course it's because, despite constantly throwing around phrases like 'tactically inept', which are a little meaningless anyway, you don't actually know what you mean by that.

Coyle picked, for a Premier League game, a midfield four of Eagles, Pratley, Mark Davies and Tuncay. With SKD and Klasnic in front. A front six, none of whom have ever made a tackle, one striker apart. He also persisted with a front two of Klasnic and Davies wherever possible, despite the fact that none of them can run. Even after stumbling upon a formula that worked, he then reverted back to the glacial front two wherever possible. Then we had the constant Mark Davies on the right of a flat four. We had leaving constantly leaving Paul Robinson isolated. We had constantly bringing Petrov, who had one attribute, crossing, on on the right hand side. Your own current stick for beating Dougie with is that we don't close anyone down on the edge of the box; this isn't a new problem, we constantly conceded goals allowing people to run at our back four who backed off and backed off until goal. Nani at home the one that springs immediately to mind.

Tactics aside, we had two proper keepers and a promising kid, and he went with the kid, who patently wasn't ready. He lost Stuart Holden to injury,but persisted with not playing Muamba despite him being the only one who could tackle. When he did play Muamba, we'd look good, until he subbed him off at which point we'd promptly lose. He did all this whilst claiming to be cutting the wage bill whilst not, in fact, cutting the wage bill. People slag Freedman off for not playing his own signings, but Coyle, claiming not to have loads of cash, jizzed that that he did have away on shite like N'Gog and Sordell, who he then didn't pick, instead sticking with the aforementioned glacial front two. Tuncay, Pratley, Wheater etc... all players he signed and didn't play.

Owen Coyle took over a team in 18th, made them good for a year (for which he gets credit, despite its now obvious dodgy foundations) and then managed to relegate that team. Having relegated that team, he then managed to fcuk it up further, and had us going at a points per game rate that would have seen us relegated. He, more than anyone has done well out of continuing troubles as it seems some have forgotten how shite he really was, but that dickhead is the worst manager I've ever seen at BWFC - worse even than Sammy Lee, and I'll be astounded and devastated if I see anyone ever come close to his levels of ineptitude.

None of that is, or should be read as, a defence of Freedman, who is doing shit and can, for me, do one too. I've a sneaking feeling that, as long as we don't look in severe danger of going down (by which I mean we drop into the bottom 3) he'll be staying, and will get the summer to try to rebuild after as many high earners as poss go (the out of contracts and out of favours). In that case, I hope he can do it, and can use the money left to get in some hungry sorts and hooray we all win. I'm not optimistic though. I can, at least, see what he is trying to do though. I don't like it, AND it isn't working, but it seems everyone can see the plan is 'be solid, nick it on the break, defend that lead'. I didn't have a scooby-do what Coyle was even trying.

So yeah. Freedman bad, Coyle worse.

[gavlat2872]

Just picked this up from the Bolton News Forum. Might be gash but who knows given everything that's happening.

Dont know if this has been mentioned above, but I will carry on regardless.
Just had a very interesting conversation with the owner of a well known hardware shop in Bolton. Dont jump down my throat I am only repeating what I`ve been told.
I`m not any use on the business side of things but I will try to tell you some of what he told me.............in a nutshell.

DF is staying because the club is "winding down." Eddie Davies is selling to some company called Emerson. I just got lost in it all eventually, but KIA, whoever they are, are involved also. Hargreaves will be running the club. Thats it in a nutshell.

Im not into all these takeovers, and dont really have a clue what it all means.

Am i right in saying that if this conversation holds any weight and we get takenover, then al debt will be gone and ED,PG and possibly Freedman walk away from the club?

[jaffka]

He's not worse than Coyle.

He obviously is. Coyle has done far more in his managerial career and is a lot better tactically. I won't expand on that too much because it'll seem like I rate Coyle, which I don't, but he's clearly a superior manager to Freedman. Coyle's career statistics are better and they're also better as Bolton manager, despite the fact we were in a tougher league for the majority of Coyle's reign.

please, feel free! Everyone is now aware you don't rate Coyle, so expand briefly on how he is better 'tactically' than Freedman.

Unless of course it's because, despite constantly throwing around phrases like 'tactically inept', which are a little meaningless anyway, you don't actually know what you mean by that.

Coyle picked, for a Premier League game, a midfield four of Eagles, Pratley, Mark Davies and Tuncay. With SKD and Klasnic in front. A front six, none of whom have ever made a tackle, one striker apart. He also persisted with a front two of Klasnic and Davies wherever possible, despite the fact that none of them can run. Even after stumbling upon a formula that worked, he then reverted back to the glacial front two wherever possible. Then we had the constant Mark Davies on the right of a flat four. We had leaving constantly leaving Paul Robinson isolated. We had constantly bringing Petrov, who had one attribute, crossing, on on the right hand side. Your own current stick for beating Dougie with is that we don't close anyone down on the edge of the box; this isn't a new problem, we constantly conceded goals allowing people to run at our back four who backed off and backed off until goal. Nani at home the one that springs immediately to mind.

Tactics aside, we had two proper keepers and a promising kid, and he went with the kid, who patently wasn't ready. He lost Stuart Holden to injury,but persisted with not playing Muamba despite him being the only one who could tackle. When he did play Muamba, we'd look good, until he subbed him off at which point we'd promptly lose. He did all this whilst claiming to be cutting the wage bill whilst not, in fact, cutting the wage bill. People slag Freedman off for not playing his own signings, but Coyle, claiming not to have loads of cash, jizzed that that he did have away on shite like N'Gog and Sordell, who he then didn't pick, instead sticking with the aforementioned glacial front two. Tuncay, Pratley, Wheater etc... all players he signed and didn't play.

Owen Coyle took over a team in 18th, made them good for a year (for which he gets credit, despite its now obvious dodgy foundations) and then managed to relegate that team. Having relegated that team, he then managed to fcuk it up further, and had us going at a points per game rate that would have seen us relegated. He, more than anyone has done well out of continuing troubles as it seems some have forgotten how shite he really was, but that dickhead is the worst manager I've ever seen at BWFC - worse even than Sammy Lee, and I'll be astounded and devastated if I see anyone ever come close to his levels of ineptitude.

None of that is, or should be read as, a defence of Freedman, who is doing shit and can, for me, do one too. I've a sneaking feeling that, as long as we don't look in severe danger of going down (by which I mean we drop into the bottom 3) he'll be staying, and will get the summer to try to rebuild after as many high earners as poss go (the out of contracts and out of favours). In that case, I hope he can do it, and can use the money left to get in some hungry sorts and hooray we all win. I'm not optimistic though. I can, at least, see what he is trying to do though. I don't like it, AND it isn't working, but it seems everyone can see the plan is 'be solid, nick it on the break, defend that lead'. I didn't have a scooby-do what Coyle was even trying.

So yeah. Freedman bad, Coyle worse.

That's quite a lot of effort for a pointless argument over who is the shitest.

I bet your mum and dad wished you put the same effort into your studies.

[Gravedigger]

I don't know, laddie. I just picked it up from the forum of BN. If, and a big if, Emerson is the shopping centre developer, (Middle Brook for instance) and if KIA are the Korean car manufacturer, well, it sort of gets scary. I suppose I'll wait until the future becomes clearer but this downward spiral we are in certainly has some purposeful input IMHO.

[Harry Genshaw]

For all the mistakes Coyle made in relegating us, it was always going to happen 1 day. Outside of say 8 or 9 teams in the Prem, everyone else can have a spell in the sun, but gravity will pull them back down at some time. The key is how you come back. I'm sure I recall seeing the stat about if you don't get back up within 3 years then you're in for a long long period out of it.

As bad as Coyle may have been. For the long term future of our club, it's imperative that the right bloke is in charge now. I don't think he is.

[Prufrock]

'Gravity' no more got us relegated than it has us in the top half now, or than it has Leeds in the Prem. That squad got relegated coz Coyle f*cked it up, not because some inherent sense of universal destiny pulled us down.

[bwfcdan94]

'Gravity' no more got us relegated than it has us in the top half now, or than it has Leeds in the Prem. That squad got relegated coz Coyle f*cked it up, not because some inherent sense of universal destiny pulled us down.

Exactly!

[BWFC_Insane]

For all the mistakes Coyle made in relegating us, it was always going to happen 1 day. Outside of say 8 or 9 teams in the Prem, everyone else can have a spell in the sun, but gravity will pull them back down at some time. The key is how you come back. I'm sure I recall seeing the stat about if you don't get back up within 3 years then you're in for a long long period out of it.

As bad as Coyle may have been. For the long term future of our club, it's imperative that the right bloke is in charge now. I don't think he is.

They key is not getting relegated when you've got a wage bill the size ours was. And if you do go down have plenty of saleable assets to bridge the financial gap and some good youngsters coming through.

We had neither and were massively underprepared.

The relegation from the premiership still makes me sad as it was so unavoidable.

[AbrahM]

Don't forget Coyle's team in the FA cup semi

Lee------Elmander----Muamba-----Petrov

--------SKD-------------Klasnic---------

what could possibly go wrong?

[Harry Genshaw]

For all the mistakes Coyle made in relegating us, it was always going to happen 1 day. Outside of say 8 or 9 teams in the Prem, everyone else can have a spell in the sun, but gravity will pull them back down at some time. The key is how you come back. I'm sure I recall seeing the stat about if you don't get back up within 3 years then you're in for a long long period out of it.

As bad as Coyle may have been. For the long term future of our club, it's imperative that the right bloke is in charge now. I don't think he is.

They key is not getting relegated when you've got a wage bill the size ours was. And if you do go down have plenty of saleable assets to bridge the financial gap and some good youngsters coming through.

We had neither and were massively underprepared.

The relegation from the premiership still makes me sad as it was so unavoidable.

I think you're right but it's happened. We've had nearly 2 years to get over it. Time to move on!
If relegation from the Prem was avoidable, then it sure as hell should be from the Championship.

It is possible you know that Coyle AND Freedman are both 5hit

[StaffsTrotter]

For all the mistakes Coyle made in relegating us, it was always going to happen 1 day. Outside of say 8 or 9 teams in the Prem, everyone else can have a spell in the sun, but gravity will pull them back down at some time. The key is how you come back. I'm sure I recall seeing the stat about if you don't get back up within 3 years then you're in for a long long period out of it.

As bad as Coyle may have been. For the long term future of our club, it's imperative that the right bloke is in charge now. I don't think he is.

They key is not getting relegated when you've got a wage bill the size ours was. And if you do go down have plenty of saleable assets to bridge the financial gap and some good youngsters coming through.

We had neither and were massively underprepared.

The relegation from the premiership still makes me sad as it was so unavoidable.

but surely only a club just promoted and basically just taking the money i.e. trying to get by with same squad will be the only ones who could possibly have a relatively 'small' wage bill - I know it was only paper talk but wasn't Danny Graham recently after £50k pw - average players demand a lot of wonga because they are in the PL. I just don't get this idea that we overpaid our players - PL relative.

Your point about the saleable assets and youngsters coming through is great in theory, but as we see with player power, foreign imports and different views about players worth its a tough ask in reality. I'll use Stoke as an example. In a recent table of PL net spend over the last 5 years they were something like 4th !!!!!!! (courtesy of good old Peter Coates/ Bet 365). Any saleable assets now - possibly a couple (like we did). Lots of players released, allowed to run down contract. Chairman seemingly reigning in on the spend (presumably because of FFP). Fans crappin it in case they do go down. It aint easy competing in the loony bin and as Harry said for the last few seasons, pretty much the bottom half have been looking over their shoulder. Only takes a bad run at the wrong time or a rival going on a great run to open the trap door .

Don't know enough about other relegated teams wrt saleable assets - have many made much money ? Think Wigan got lucky with Martinez going to Everton & willing to pay pretty good money for quite a few of his old players, who on the face of it had been in a team floating around in the PL deadmen for a few seasons, which by inference would suggest they weren't that good. Its all worked out - guess he is the manager Whelan thought he was. Pretty sure if we'd have taken some of them players, we as fans would have been underwhelmed - and probably if DF had got them we would have been

[Bruce Rioja]

Exactly!

Are you sure that you're not just being a bit of a c*nt?