Freedman out!

[Lord Kangana]

Yeah. So to recap, we have a manager who after 18 months can't get us above the lowest level his predecessor had us at. That'd be the sacked one. I don't know why I'm bothering, it's like trying to discuss something rationally with Nigel Farage.

[Prufrock]

Calls someone a 'shithouse' apparently for someone else's benefit?

Somebody isn't wired up right.

No I didn't. You called him a shithouse. I said I prefer a shithouse who takes us sideways to one who takes us backwards. That isn't me saying he is a shithouse, it's me saying that even if he is a shithouse (your words) he's still better than Coyle.

Did I?

Although I think you are trying to be cleverer than you actually are

Yep

How does it excuse Coyle? He signed the f*ckers. He's a shithouse either way.

Yep and so is the present incumbent.

If I were as clever as I think I am I'd be dangerous .

[Prufrock]

Coyle took over a team at the bottom of the Premiership running at slightly less than a point a game. He left a team 18th in the Championship, running at a bit over a point a game. That's backwards.

Freedman took over a team in 16th at 1.25 points per game. We're now 17th at 1.15. If sideways is to mean anything beyond being exactly the same, that's sideways.

Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely no dispute that he was hired to do a hell if a lot better than go sideways though.

No it isn't. And that's why its tiresome, because you know it isn't, but we're wasting terrabites pretending.

The first two paragraphs are factual statements!

'Going sideways' isn't the same as 'doing the job you were hired to do'. Coyle was hired to basically go sideways ( well, to improve us slightly); he took us massively backwards.

Freedman was hired to take us massively forwards, and instead has taken us sideways. There's no way we're noticeably worse than. Coyle left us. I actually think we at least 'look' better, but no arguments that even if that were true it's had no real tangible benefit. We're the same.

I don't think, I fact, we massively disagree BTW. It's a semantic argument.

[Lord Kangana]

Hang on, Coyle didn't take over and plunge us into immediate decline. C'mon.

[truewhite15]

Hang on, Coyle didn't take over and plunge us into immediate decline. C'mon.

Fine, he didn't. True. But what, ultimately, did Coyle's renaissance amount to?

Survival in his first season. Improved form in his second, and one glorious November. An unforgettable trip to St Andrews, followed by utter humiliation on a national stage. 1 bounceback victory over Arsenal, followed by 6 defeats in a row, ruining any chances of a top half finish. A shite 3rd season in charge, culminating in a very avoidable relegation. A shite start to his 4th season, with him being sacked.

Some posters bang on about how good things started off under Coyle - and while it was good, we've ended up with the sum total of f*ck all to show for it. Great legacy.

[Lord Kangana]

Aaaahh. We're in the middle of a semantics argument. Please don't interrupt.

[Prufrock]

No he didn't. My views on his uselessness are pretty well documented, but I was one of the lucky ones to be at that FA Cup quarter final and Owen, as much as I think your a chancing club-killing wanker, we'll always have Birmingham.

But, over the whole of his tenure, he took us further backwards than any single manager in my lifetime, not only from the position he got us too, by also the position he started from.

Freedman didn't plunge us into immediate decline either. He's had his, admittedly less glorious, ups. We were the form side in the league for three months last year. We're still plodding along underperforming.

[Prufrock]

Aaaahh. We're in the middle of a semantics argument. Please don't interrupt.

[Lord Kangana]

So ultimately Coyle ended up in the position he found us in - a relegation place. And then proved incapable of halting that decline. It's all so eerily familiar.

I'm still not convinced what we have represents sideways movements - take Baptiste as an excellent example. Under the remit of slashing the wagebill! (try reading this like a Sun header) we beat everyone in the division to a defender with Premier League experience, by dint of offering the highest wage, he proves to be a bit meh, to the extent he gets a bit of a public pillorying from his manager... the manager who signed him, he's not inherited. Its another huge waste of our dwindling funds - and they dwindle by the day, the clock is ticking. It's highly illustrative. Shit, even Dave 'Dave' Whelan has cottoned on to it.

[jaffka]

Calls someone a 'shithouse' apparently for someone else's benefit?

Somebody isn't wired up right.

No I didn't. You called him a shithouse. I said I prefer a shithouse who takes us sideways to one who takes us backwards. That isn't me saying he is a shithouse, it's me saying that even if he is a shithouse (your words) he's still better than Coyle.

Did I?

Although I think you are trying to be cleverer than you actually are

Yep

How does it excuse Coyle? He signed the f*ckers. He's a shithouse either way.

Yep and so is the present incumbent.

If I were as clever as I think I am I'd be dangerous .

Do you know next weeks winning lotto numbers?

[CrazyHorse]

Yeah. So to recap, we have a manager who after 18 months can't get us above the lowest level his predecessor had us at. That'd be the sacked one. I don't know why I'm bothering, it's like trying to discuss something rationally with Nigel Farage.

You're glossing over the fact that it takes years to turn around the mess that Owen Coyle gifts clubs with.
Look at Burnley. Look at Wigan. I'm just glad we've got a manager who knows what he's doing otherwise we'd be in the mess they're in.

[Prufrock]

So ultimately Coyle ended up in the position he found us in - a relegation place. And then proved incapable of halting that decline. It's all so eerily familiar.

I'm still not convinced what we have represents sideways movements - take Baptiste as an excellent example. Under the remit of slashing the wagebill! (try reading this like a Sun header) we beat everyone in the division to a defender with Premier League experience, by dint of offering the highest wage, he proves to be a bit meh, to the extent he gets a bit of a public pillorying from his manager... the manager who signed him, he's not inherited. Its another huge waste of our dwindling funds - and they dwindle by the day, the clock is ticking. It's highly illustrative. Shit, even Dave 'Dave' Whelan has cottoned on to it.

Oh ffs, to quote yourself, c'mon! A fecking division lower!

The rest of it isn't about whether we are going sideways, but whether Freedman is doing what he was brought in to do. No dispute he isn't.

There's no argument Freedman isn't a pauper, but again its a factual statement he's got less cash to spend that Coyle had.

He's had a fair amount of cash though. Not just Baptistery, Tierney and Beckford too, but I'm not sure that's got anything to do with going forward, backwards or sideways; just whether he's doing what he should be. We're about as good as when he took over. That's sideways.

[Prufrock]

Calls someone a 'shithouse' apparently for someone else's benefit?

Somebody isn't wired up right.

No I didn't. You called him a shithouse. I said I prefer a shithouse who takes us sideways to one who takes us backwards. That isn't me saying he is a shithouse, it's me saying that even if he is a shithouse (your words) he's still better than Coyle.

Did I?

Although I think you are trying to be cleverer than you actually are

Yep

How does it excuse Coyle? He signed the f*ckers. He's a shithouse either way.

Yep and so is the present incumbent.

If I were as clever as I think I am I'd be dangerous .

Do you know next weeks winning lotto numbers?

Too clever to do the lottery

[a1]

You're glossing over the fact that it takes years to turn around the mess that Owen Coyle gifts clubs with.
Look at Burnley. Look at Wigan. I'm just glad we've got a manager who knows what he's doing otherwise we'd be in the mess they're in.

you're talking like burnley got relegated last year. it were nearly four (?) years ago. neither brian laws or eddie howe got burnley back up, that could be evidence enough that coyle gifts clubs with a mess. carnt see you sorts being happy if freedman 's still here in four years time. not even thinking about what division we'd be in.

wigan carnt even beat a team 17th in the championship managed by a man allegedly with all the management skills of a paper plate with a face drawn on it.

fecking up a team that were in the top flight for that long still pisses me off . It were like the grinning bastard were doing it on purpose. There's trying to find subtext and perceived slights in owt megson/allardyce/freedman say or did, but excusing that gormless get because he hasn't fecked up burnley or wigan as much as here is something else.

jesus christ

[Lord Kangana]

So in conclusion we're holding Freedman to a much lower standard than Coyle. I'm glad we've addressed that particular elephant in the room.

[BWFC_Insane]

So in conclusion we're holding Freedman to a much lower standard than Coyle. I'm glad we've addressed that particular elephant in the room.

Well to use your very own, oft repeated argument, he has less than half the resources, so.....

[Lord Kangana]

So its better to bump along in the lower third of the league than get a team promoted and then relegated. Gotcha.

[gizmothevoomer]

So in conclusion we're holding Freedman to a much lower standard than Coyle. I'm glad we've addressed that particular elephant in the room.

Of course the standard is lower, Coyle took over a stable premiership team, Freedman took over a team in decline in the championship. The budgets are massively different, contrary to popular opinion very few teams bounce straight back to premiership following relegation, None of the sides relegated with us bounced back Wolves went down a division, Reading Wigan and QPR are would have to go up in play offs so at least two from last years relegation will remain.

Next season is the season DF must be judged by, he certainly has not set the world alight so far, stability whilst removing the deadwood players is the priority for BWFC given our financial situation.

There have been times this season when I have been in the Dougie out camp, but only when a proven manager has been available.

[Lord Kangana]

Stable. Why would we sack a manager if we were stable?

[BWFC_Insane]

So its better to bump along in the lower third of the league than get a team promoted and then relegated. Gotcha.

I think you're tying yourself in knots.

Just accept you completely got it wrong about Coyle and move on. The man was a disaster, you couldn't see it or understand it at the time.

Accept that and move on, because trying to argue for Freedman to be sacked is perfectly possible without bizarre mental gymnastics trying to contextualise it against your previous (and clearly wrong) arguments.