Freedman out!

[Tombwfc]

I've seen Bolton under a lot of managers and never really shout for heads to roll because football today is so unpredictable. I am beginning to wonder though now (like many others have voiced) if this fella really does know what he's doing. In the Championship we aren't playing Champions League and swapping opponents of top order every game. How hard is it to pick your best side and give them a chance to play together with some confidence and team spirit? If Moritz doesn't fit in, why do we want him? Same with all the ten minutes a game players he uses to play negative defensive football that almost invites disaster. Use the subs by all means, but have some sort of a reason for doing it and give them playing time. Surely nobody wants to play for a manager who persists in divinity despite poor results and obvious fan disapprobation and has the club captain, despite his best spell for ages, uncertain of his place and not afraid to say so. ?

Okay, we're currently on a run that could be worse, but only because the rest of our season has us currently eighteen points behind Wigan and thirty five behind Burnley. Dougie might see beating Wigan as a major triumph,(should it even happen of course) but over the season it makes pretty grim reading. Are we really the same Bolton Wanderers who were, not too long ago, the first team ever to beat Red Star on their home ground in the comp, or drew 2-2 with Bayern Munich. Is it really only three seasons ago since Tamir Cohen had Arsene Wenger's head in his hands in despair..? Maybe Dougie needs to have a read up and see where we are. Not all his fault, granted, but he seriously needs to get his act together soon or it'll be too late. Instead of blaming the players and showing them the door, why not try making a team with some bottle and pride out of them. Isn't that what he's getting paid a fortune for?

The thing you're forgetting is he inherited a Bolton side near the bottom of the Championship.

He didn't inherit the side that drew in Bayern Munich or the one that finished 6th in the premiership. He had a group of players who were languishing at the bottom end of the championship.

They still are, but comparing what he inherited to bygone times isn't going to help.

I don't think there is a quick turnaround for where we are. It is going to be a slog. Once you drop out of the top flight, history says that there is a stronger probability of this happening than there is of bouncing straight back. People act like we're different to Leeds, Coventry, Bradford, Sheffield Weds/Utd, Burnley, Derby, Southampton, Leicester etc etc who all fell out of the top flight and took a while to get back their (or haven't yet managed it) and some dropped further....but why are we expecting a different outcome? All those sides went down thinking they'd be more than good enough to come back, but they didn't. There is no special reason why we were in a different boat, however good we thought we were, this league doesn't take any prisoners.

Because they all did it badly (appointed poorly, signed rubbish) and we have/had the opportunity to do it better?

There's no law of the universe that demands we spend the next five years battling it out with Donny Rovers, it's all down to players and management. If you have good players managed well you'll succeed, if you don't have the players (or they are managed poorly) you'll struggle. There's nothing more to it than that.

But of course, if this is all inevitable, why were you so against Coyle? These forces of history that apparently dictate football matches suggest we were always going to go down eventually, and we were also quite capable of continuing to do shite under him.

On another note (and it doesn't feel good to defend him two paragraphs in a row) being 18th after 10 games is clearly not the same as being 17th after 39. Or being 20th after 10 this season having not won a single game.

Dougie inherited a side that was six points off the playoffs and 18 months later we're 15 points adrift. Forward, backwards, sideways, whatever... it's hopeless.

[BWFC_Insane]

Because they all did it badly (appointed poorly, signed rubbish) and we have/had the opportunity to do it better?

There's no law of the universe that demands we spend the next five years battling it out with Donny Rovers, it's all down to players and management. If you have good players managed well you'll succeed, if you don't have the players (or they are managed poorly) you'll struggle. There's nothing more to it than that.

But of course, if this is all inevitable, why were you so against Coyle? These forces of history that apparently dictate football matches suggest we were always going to go down eventually, and we were also quite capable of continuing to do shite under him.

On another note (and it doesn't feel good to defend him two paragraphs in a row) being 18th after 10 games is clearly not the same as being 17th after 39. Or being 20th after 10 this season having not won a single game.

Dougie inherited a side that was six points off the playoffs and 18 months later we're 15 points adrift. Forward, backwards, sideways, whatever... it's hopeless.

But does it not suggest that coming down even with good players after a long period in the premiership isn't easy? I don't subscribe to all those clubs struggling being a coincidence that they all were run terribly. Few have gone back up straight away. I think there has to be a bit more to it. Though granted any side that goes down (generally, not always) has some issues somewhere, be it manager, players or debt....

As for Coyle, my annoyance there was not so much that we went down, which was at some point going to happen. It was the way we did it. I'd rather have seen us scrap our way to every point we could than surrender limply for much of the season in the most naive way possible. The fact that in the end we came close to staying up made it even worse in that the number of points we pissed away for absolutely no reason just became infuriating. For all the stick Megson took we at least had some bottle and battle in his sides, even if it was more about fighting than the beautiful game. I felt Coyle stripped that out and filled the squad with mentally weak losers. Something we paid for dearly and still are now to an extent. My main issue was I didn't believe Coyle had been desperate enough or fought hard enough to keep us in the top flight. In January when we desperately needed real and genuine men to come in and help us out he pissed around and spent 3M (which was no small change) on a boy from Watford, who it turns out was worth a tenth of that fee. But that is history.

Freedman has not been able to improve things outside of the run towards the end of last season. I'm in two minds as to whether any manager could realistically have gotten more out of the likes of Knight, Ream, Eagles, LCY, NGog etc and even if they could whether it would have been enough to get us promoted. That is my view. Others think if only we had a different manager we'd have walked this division. I couldn't disagree more, but that is what it boils down to.

[CrazyHorse]

Or is it possible you're too proud to just admit you backed the wrong horse in Freedman?

[BWFC_Insane]

Or is it possible you're too proud to just admit you backed the wrong horse in Freedman?

It is a strange question to ask. I didn't champion him for our managerial position before he came. I think I was in favour of Mick McCarthy at the time.

But I did think, and still do that he has potential and I like a lot of the things he says and the way he has laid out that he wants to take the club forwards. I am very disappointed with results this season and Freedman has to take blame for that. I thought we'd do better, and we haven't.

The question is, what do we do now. I've laid out above where the argument is. When we came down I thought we had a team more than good enough to go back. I was wrong and have said so many times.

I don't think we've got a cat in hells chance of going up next year, regardless of the manager. I think we need to re-establish ourselves as a side who are hard to beat with a group of players who are all pulling in the same direction. We have IMO far too many players with supposed talent who have just shown it here so rarely that in effect it becomes worthless. My view is we need to restructure to the point where we have (I hate this term) a lean squad with all the fat and wasters trimmed away with younger players breaking through and making up the numbers. For me that will take time and won't happen in a single season or two. It is a direction I believe Freedman COULD take us succesfully into but I think it is the required brief for whoever is in charge.

Very happy if I'm wrong on that and we win the league next season of course.....

[Bruce Rioja]

I like a lot of the things he says

Has he actually said a single thing that he hasn't then contradicted? It's because of what he says, followed by what he does, (coupled with his stubbornness and patronising nature) that lead me to believe that the guy hasn't a bloody clue as to what it is that he's doing or what he's dealing with.

[BWFC_Insane]

I like a lot of the things he says

Has he actually said a single thing that he hasn't then contradicted? It's because of what he says, followed by what he does, (coupled with his stubbornness and patronising nature) that lead me to believe that the guy hasn't a bloody clue as to what it is that he's doing or what he's dealing with.

It is like anything, about context. Talking about young players for example, he may genuinely want to blood youngsters, but feels we haven't had the right ones here to do that. It is all about context. But equally what you read into something, and end of the day everyone takes different things away with them good or bad when they hear a manager speak and will interpret things however they happen to do.

One thing I think he should change is his mantra of "I'm not too concerned with results if we're playing well"...because I think playing badly and winning usually leads to teams playing well and winning. Whereas playing badly and winning often leads in the other direction. I think in short he must ensure that he maintains the short term results as best as possible whilst also carrying out the longer term planning. Should he still be here to do so.

[Tombwfc]

Because they all did it badly (appointed poorly, signed rubbish) and we have/had the opportunity to do it better?

There's no law of the universe that demands we spend the next five years battling it out with Donny Rovers, it's all down to players and management. If you have good players managed well you'll succeed, if you don't have the players (or they are managed poorly) you'll struggle. There's nothing more to it than that.

But of course, if this is all inevitable, why were you so against Coyle? These forces of history that apparently dictate football matches suggest we were always going to go down eventually, and we were also quite capable of continuing to do shite under him.

On another note (and it doesn't feel good to defend him two paragraphs in a row) being 18th after 10 games is clearly not the same as being 17th after 39. Or being 20th after 10 this season having not won a single game.

Dougie inherited a side that was six points off the playoffs and 18 months later we're 15 points adrift. Forward, backwards, sideways, whatever... it's hopeless.

But does it not suggest that coming down even with good players after a long period in the premiership isn't easy? I don't subscribe to all those clubs struggling being a coincidence that they all were run terribly. Few have gone back up straight away. I think there has to be a bit more to it. Though granted any side that goes down (generally, not always) has some issues somewhere, be it manager, players or debt....

As for Coyle, my annoyance there was not so much that we went down, which was at some point going to happen. It was the way we did it. I'd rather have seen us scrap our way to every point we could than surrender limply for much of the season in the most naive way possible. The fact that in the end we came close to staying up made it even worse in that the number of points we pissed away for absolutely no reason just became infuriating. For all the stick Megson took we at least had some bottle and battle in his sides, even if it was more about fighting than the beautiful game. I felt Coyle stripped that out and filled the squad with mentally weak losers. Something we paid for dearly and still are now to an extent. My main issue was I didn't believe Coyle had been desperate enough or fought hard enough to keep us in the top flight. In January when we desperately needed real and genuine men to come in and help us out he pissed around and spent 3M (which was no small change) on a boy from Watford, who it turns out was worth a tenth of that fee. But that is history.

Freedman has not been able to improve things outside of the run towards the end of last season. I'm in two minds as to whether any manager could realistically have gotten more out of the likes of Knight, Ream, Eagles, LCY, NGog etc and even if they could whether it would have been enough to get us promoted. That is my view. Others think if only we had a different manager we'd have walked this division. I couldn't disagree more, but that is what it boils down to.

Of the sides that were in the Premier League when we came back up in 01, only eight remain in the top flight who haven't gone down since. That's the top seven (minus City), Villa and Fulham - who are about to be relegated. If you were being consistent, you would surely be suggesting that relegation was inevitable. Why would anybody expect us to be any different from all those other sides that have been relegated in the last decade and a bit?

Except you aren't saying that, because really you know football isn't about other worldly forces that drag teams down and push others up on a whim, it's just about your set of players (+ manager) winning matches. Relegation quite clearly wasn't inevitable because of the half dozen-plus games in which we threw away points which would have kept us up.

By the same token, it isn't inevitable that we will spend the next five years toiling. Freedman has had the resources and the time to put together a side capable of winning significantly more football matches than we do currently, it's only his own shitness that's holding him back.

[a1]

Has he actually said a single thing that he hasn't then contradicted? It's because of what he says, followed by what he does, (coupled with his stubbornness and patronising nature) that lead me to believe that the guy hasn't a bloody clue as to what it is that he's doing or what he's dealing with.

he's the King Troll of Football.

surprised he's not sed "them lot" or done a hulk hogan style cup hand to ear thing.

he's got a few "this football club"-s in though, but the bedsheeters either havent been listening properly or never came back like they sed they would once the ginger bastard got sacked off.

wouldnt surprise me if he played zat knight in goal next week for some epic trolling . its like gary megson dialled up to 11, but no one seems to be as bothered.

it's a good job his "sign 58 midfielders on purpose, even if i dont need 'em", luckily coincided with all of ours getting injured.

i was convinced that was 'troll in real life' joke.

[Hoboh]

Has he actually said a single thing that he hasn't then contradicted? It's because of what he says, followed by what he does, (coupled with his stubbornness and patronising nature) that lead me to believe that the guy hasn't a bloody clue as to what it is that he's doing or what he's dealing with.

he's the King Troll of Football.

surprised he's not sed "them lot" or done a hulk hogan style cup hand to ear thing.

he's got a few "this football club"-s in though, but the bedsheeters either havent been listening properly or never came back like they sed they would once the ginger bastard got sacked off.

wouldnt surprise me if he played zat knight in goal next week for some epic trolling . its like gary megson dialled up to 11, but no one seems to be as bothered.

it's a good job his "sign 58 midfielders on purpose, even if i dont need 'em", luckily coincided with all of ours getting injured.

i was convinced that was 'troll in real life' joke.

You don't read much then do you if you think no one cares about Freedman ruining this club.
The only difference I can see is you loved Megson and BWFCI gets off on Freedman

[Thor]

You only have to go back to last season, when we finished level on points with Leicester and look at our respective fortunes since.
Without really spending anything they have walked away with this league, while despite lots of chopping and changing we have stagnated. Appointing Freedman was a knee-jerk reaction when we should have been looking for someone with the knowledge and experience to take the club forward. Once we get to 50 points then cut our losses with Freedman, give some of the youngsters a go and
employ a new manager with a full close season in front of them. Mackay and Clarke spring to mind!

[bobo the clown]

Not going to happen though, Thor. He will be given the close-season..We'll have to take the positives out of poor performances and resulrs in pre-season games again very limited oppo ents and we will see where his first dozen games leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

You heard it here first.

... & I'm very sorry.

[BWFC_Insane]

Not going to happen though, Thor. He will be given the close-season..We'll have to take the positives out of poor performances and resulrs in pre-season games again very limited oppo ents and we will see where his first dozen games leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

You heard it here first.

... & I'm very sorry.

And given your opinion of Freedman, could you explain why Eddie wouldn't sack him?

[bobo the clown]

Not going to happen though, Thor. He will be given the close-season..We'll have to take the positives out of poor performances and resulrs in pre-season games again very limited opponents and we will see where his first dozen games leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

You heard it here first.

... & I'm very sorry.

And given your opinion of Freedman, could you explain why Eddie wouldn't sack him?

He won't sack him because, despite my expert analysis he has determined to see him through. To give him chance for his plan to come to fruition.

I think Mr Davies is a decent man who gives people a chance. Sometimes beyond what they deserve.

If he was going to sack him he'd have done so already.

[jaffka]

Not going to happen though, Thor. He will be given the close-season..We'll have to take the positives out of poor performances and resulrs in pre-season games again very limited opponents and we will see where his first dozen games leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

You heard it here first.

... & I'm very sorry.

And given your opinion of Freedman, could you explain why Eddie wouldn't sack him?

He won't sack him because, despite my expert analysis he has determined to see him through. To give him chance for his plan to come to fruition.

I think Mr Davies is a decent man who gives people a chance. Sometimes beyond what they deserve.

If he was going to sack him he'd have done so already.

Which all points to that we are a good club who don't pull the trigger quickly and are therefore an attractive proposition to other managers.

[BWFC_Insane]

Not going to happen though, Thor. He will be given the close-season..We'll have to take the positives out of poor performances and resulrs in pre-season games again very limited opponents and we will see where his first dozen games leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

You heard it here first.

... & I'm very sorry.

And given your opinion of Freedman, could you explain why Eddie wouldn't sack him?

He won't sack him because, despite my expert analysis he has determined to see him through. To give him chance for his plan to come to fruition.

I think Mr Davies is a decent man who gives people a chance. Sometimes beyond what they deserve.

If he was going to sack him he'd have done so already.

I certainly don't think we're the most trigger happy club that is for sure.

However, Eddie did sack (or sanction the sacking of) Lee, Megson and Coyle.

One might say that Lee was sacked very quickly. Megson from a position where should we win our game in hand we'd have been 15th in the top flight.

So yes there were individual circumstances there but I'd not say Eddie would put up with someone he didn't believe in either.

So I suspect either as you say there is a long term plan in place that Eddie won't jeopardise at all costs, or he doesn't fancy forking out money to replace another manager.

Has to be one or the other I suspect.

[bobo the clown]

I think that he still feels the guy has the right to see through his long-term plan and that in Eddie's case he's not yet given up on that. He must also feel that he's not acted SO poorly that he deserves binning. The contradictory statements/actions, the recent outburst about Baptiste and the piss-poor and inconsistent form. Signing players who he then doesn't play and trawling the World for loans instead will p the owner off.

Fan unrest ... resulting in apathy rather than anger and the consequent dropping gates (we'll have to see what happens with season ticket sales) will all add the pressure but I firmly believe he'll start next season. A first quarter even close to this years will see him out of the role though.

[CrazyHorse]

Secret option three. Eddie is winding Freedman's contract down then will get rid for free.

[bobo the clown]

Secret option three. Eddie is winding Freedman's contract down then will get rid for free.

Agreed.

bobo the clown wrote:
.... we will see where his first dozen games (next season) leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

[BWFC_Insane]

Secret option three. Eddie is winding Freedman's contract down then will get rid for free.

I think that would be covered by my second option really.

[Prufrock]

Not going to happen though, Thor. He will be given the close-season..We'll have to take the positives out of poor performances and resulrs in pre-season games again very limited opponents and we will see where his first dozen games leave us. If they are a mess he may just get binned. Otherwise we'll suffer another season of hit & miss, contradiction, mysterious selections and more loans in & out than my local library and his contract will be run down.

You heard it here first.

... & I'm very sorry.

And given your opinion of Freedman, could you explain why Eddie wouldn't sack him?

He won't sack him because, despite my expert analysis he has determined to see him through. To give him chance for his plan to come to fruition.

I think Mr Davies is a decent man who gives people a chance. Sometimes beyond what they deserve.

If he was going to sack him he'd have done so already.

Which all points to that we are a good club who don't pull the trigger quickly and are therefore an attractive proposition to other managers.

I'm not sure being attractive to other managers because we don't sack managers is much use to us !