Fulham:whether it be bestial oblivion or some Craven scruple

[StaffsTrotter]

I'm properly annoyed tonight. I don't really care about the loss because it's irrelevant and maybe it'll even be a positive thing for us but the game is besides the point, I'm so infuriated at the club because their refusal to act is to blame. Freedman should have been sacked a year ago after our worst start in over 100 years and there are many instances after that period where the club should have said "this isn't working, lets move on" but it didn't happen. Repeatedly, there have been chances to sack him and yet the club did nothing, and it's that acceptance of failure from Gartside and whoever else has a say in the matter is what really disgusts me. I don't care about Freedman, he's the worst manager I've seen during my time watching Bolton and I hope he doesn't get another job in football because he doesn't deserve it, but I'm not even angry at him tonight because whilst he's terrible at his job, at least he's doing the best he can but can you say the same for Gartside? No. He and the other board members could have chosen to sack Freedman time and time again and their refusal to do anything is why this keeps happening. I honestly thought we'd reached a tipping point at the weekend and Freedman's position had become untenable but apparently not, so another possible 3 points goes down the drain and we become an even less promising club for any potential replacements when the inevitable happens.

The players don't believe in Freedman, the fans certainly don't and I even doubt that he himself believes he is the man for the job but it's sad that the people who can make the right decision for Bolton choose not to. I've never had much bad to say about Gartside in the past but unless Freedman goes before the international break, then he should also be replaced because his handling of the managerial situation is as bad as Freedman's management of the team.

Except SF the owner/ chairman/ board could say they were reflecting the general attitude of fans. Its all gone to pot now but fans werent clamouring for DFs removal pre season or even possibly 5 games ago.
Whats been surprising is how much the wheels have come off, as I'd always thought odd results would have been pulled out of the bag in a kind of bumbling mediocrity kind of way - just enough to keep the pitchforks in the shed & give glimmers of hope. Clearly we can't even do that now.

[Hoboh]

I'm properly annoyed tonight. I don't really care about the loss because it's irrelevant and maybe it'll even be a positive thing for us but the game is besides the point, I'm so infuriated at the club because their refusal to act is to blame. Freedman should have been sacked a year ago after our worst start in over 100 years and there are many instances after that period where the club should have said "this isn't working, lets move on" but it didn't happen. Repeatedly, there have been chances to sack him and yet the club did nothing, and it's that acceptance of failure from Gartside and whoever else has a say in the matter is what really disgusts me. I don't care about Freedman, he's the worst manager I've seen during my time watching Bolton and I hope he doesn't get another job in football because he doesn't deserve it, but I'm not even angry at him tonight because whilst he's terrible at his job, at least he's doing the best he can but can you say the same for Gartside? No. He and the other board members could have chosen to sack Freedman time and time again and their refusal to do anything is why this keeps happening. I honestly thought we'd reached a tipping point at the weekend and Freedman's position had become untenable but apparently not, so another possible 3 points goes down the drain and we become an even less promising club for any potential replacements when the inevitable happens.

The players don't believe in Freedman, the fans certainly don't and I even doubt that he himself believes he is the man for the job but it's sad that the people who can make the right decision for Bolton choose not to. I've never had much bad to say about Gartside in the past but unless Freedman goes before the international break, then he should also be replaced because his handling of the managerial situation is as bad as Freedman's management of the team.

Except SF the owner/ chairman/ board could say they were reflecting the general attitude of fans. Its all gone to pot now but fans werent clamouring for DFs removal pre season or even possibly 5 games ago.
Whats been surprising is how much the wheels have come off, as I'd always thought odd results would have been pulled out of the bag in a kind of bumbling mediocrity kind of way - just enough to keep the pitchforks in the shed & give glimmers of hope. Clearly we can't even do that now.

That would sound good except that the same thing was going on last season and he got lucky, now't to do with playing the right way or tactics.

[EverSoYouri]

It'd be ultimately inhumane to drag him out in front of Saturday's home crowd. Let's hope that humility prevails and we've gone our separate ways before then.

I agree. It'll be like the Colosseum, with the mob baying for blood but the Emperor refusing to intervene and put the wounded man out of his misery.

Think I'll give it a miss.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd love to read a match report from someone who went.

I'll try to get round to it but Thursday's a busy day at work... although I'll be watching to see if someone else is out of work today.

I was sat with Prufrock (and Mummywhycantieatcrayons) and his post pretty much sums up what we were saying as we stared glumly into our pint glasses back in the pub.

I'd hope you appreciate by now that I'm not a man given to hyperbole, or the easy wow-statement. But I've been watching Bolton since the mid-80s and I have never seen a Bolton team *hide* so much as last night's. For the first half, nobody wanted the ball at all. A complete and utter lack of confidence pervades the team like the stench of shit.

The tactics... oh the tactics. The idea seemed to be to throw five across midfield and hope that Fulham would give up. Instead, they just ran through the gaps. It's as if our players couldn't understand that you might need lateral movement. And as Pru pointed out, Spearing and Ream were basically stood on the centre-backs' toes. That's not controlling the game without the ball, it's a complete dereliction of ambition. You know you're in trouble when you choose, as your "passer" in central midfield, a centre-back.

It changed for 10 minutes after the triple sub (made six minutes into the second half for reasons unfathomable). Because Mark Davies wanted the ball, and he wanted to pass it; Jermaine Beckford wanted to drop off for the ball, and recycle it; so did Joe Mason. For the first time in the match we had players who didn't treat the ball like an unfolding shit-filled nappy bag. We were still hampered by the bizarre decision to play inverted wingers when Feeney is a straightforward byline-chaser, but we got movement off the ball and a desire to get it.

Then Fulham danced through our defensive statutes again and it was all over.

It should be all over for Freedman. I bear him no ill will. But these players, his players, aren't playing for him, and now he has crossed the line by saying they aren't good enough, I can't imagine they ever will again. So it increasingly become an actuarial decision: can we afford not to sack him? At what point in the calendar does his gardening leave become less than the projected costs of going down the third division, where our typical attendances last time - without as many alternative entertainments offered to today's potential supporters – typically ranged between 4,000 and 9,000?

[bobo the clown]

but fans werent clamouring for DFs removal pre season or even possibly 5 games ago.
Whats been surprising is how much the wheels have come off .....

Unless I misunderstand you Staffs I thought there was a considerable leaning towards this. Admittedly this has become a tidal wave now ... & rightly so, but there have been plenty since last year's awful start.

[coffeymagic]

I listened on 5Live. They were taking the broadcast from London Radio so it was bound to be biased towards the homeside but I honestly don't think I heard the word 'Beckford' for the full 45 minutes he was on.

Did he actually touch the ball?

I heard that Spearing was taking All the freekicks. Did he clear the first man once?

I heard there were around 500 Superwhites down there. Has councilling been offered?

Can someone answer me this? Of all the goals we've scored this year (and I use the word 'all' in its loosest terms) how many have been from open play?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't have much to add.

It was unbelievable how little protection having BOTH Ream and Spearing lying deep and centrally offered the back four.

I don't see the point of Spearing at all. He doesn't get to players to close them down and doesn't show any hunger to get on the ball whatsoever - a problem that is endemic in the team.

The one bright light was Mark Davies when he came on. He's not perfect but he wants the ball, is always showing for it, and tends to do something positive when he gets it. If he can stay fit and we can build a team around him and his ethos, we might just be ok.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I listened on 5Live. They were taking the broadcast from London Radio so it was bound to be biased towards the homeside but I honestly don't think I heard the word 'Beckford' for the full 45 minutes he was on.

Did he actually touch the ball?

I heard that Spearing was taking All the freekicks. Did he clear the first man once?

I heard there were around 500 Superwhites down there. Has councilling been offered?

Can someone answer me this? Of all the goals we've scored this year (and I use the word 'all' in its loosest terms) how many have been from open play?

Tony -

Beckford did indeed touch the ball a fair few times. He flashed a shot just wide, ran the channels and got crunched right in front of a hardly sympathetic away end, and kept coming deep to link with Mavies. Only after the subs did we have players who didn't seem to think this was table football or immobile magnets on a whiteboard.

Spearing took most of the free-kicks. Ream one or two left-footed in-swingers. Spearing's weren't bad, they were arguably our best hope, which says a lot about another thing you mention - our lack of open-play goals. But they felt like they might happen when we got Mark Davies on the ball.

Fans didn't seem distraught, apart from maybe a dozen who I suspect inhabit scoreboard corner and might get upset at a fluttering corner-flag. Not to take away their right to protest, like, but the away-end mood was of exasperation and inevitability rather than revolution.

[mrplow]

I don't have much to add.

It was unbelievable how little protection having BOTH Ream and Spearing lying deep and centrally offered the back four.

I don't see the point of Spearing at all. He doesn't get to players to close them down and doesn't show any hunger to get on the ball whatsoever - a problem that is endemic in the team.

The one bright light was Mark Davies when he came on. He's not perfect but he wants the ball, is always showing for it, and tends to do something positive when he gets it. If he can stay fit and we can build a team around him and his ethos, we might just be ok.

This is from a Fulham fan, about Ruiz

'Bolton weren't particularly tight on him and mostly stood off to let him dictate the pace, and got done for it. It's been a long time since I've seen such mild pressure on him.'

Every game it's like that. Zonal marking, shuffling sideways. We never put pressure on the ball and we never man mark the opposition playmaker.

[TANGODANCER]

Duggie must be made of Teflon.

Teflon, he must be made of Kevlar...

[boltonboris]

The defence sits so horribly deep, that it would be suicide for midfielders to press the ball.

The whole shape of the team lies 10 yards deeper than it should. Wether that is confidence, or instruction (or both) remains to be seen, but you rarely see Dougloss screaming at them to push higher up ala Sam A

[Prufrock]

Boris, the lack of pressure we're on about last night was happening 10 yards outside our box! The back four along the 18 yard line, 5 yards in front were our line dancing 5, and still no pressure on the ball.

[StaffsTrotter]

but fans werent clamouring for DFs removal pre season or even possibly 5 games ago.
Whats been surprising is how much the wheels have come off .....

Unless I misunderstand you Staffs I thought there was a considerable leaning towards this. Admittedly this has become a tidal wave now ... & rightly so, but there have been plenty since last year's awful start.

Don't think you've misunderstood - I just didn't think there was. Until v recently, for every 1 saying get rid, theres been more people saying keep (more often by default of - give him time, who's better, dead wood etc etc).
Hindsights a wonderful thing and I'm sure many will now say we are 12 months too late in getting rid - just don't remember many saying that at the time - and those that were being castigated for having that view. Even at the start of this season I thought fans were generally looking mid table and up in their predictions.
Anyway, point was, don't accept PG was swimming against tide of fans opinion. He is now, but upto recently its been more of resigned apathy certainly in the non cyber world - which makes freedmans comments about unrealistic fan expectations even more galling.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Have only just noticed this from yesterday's BN. Basics? Bollocks more like!

DOUGIE Freedman confirmed his “back to basics” plan will commence at Fulham tonight.

The Wanderers boss revealed he intends to simplify his team’s style in an effort to get out of the bottom three.

He says the decision was prompted by Saturday’s defeat against Derby but also the loss of players such as Lukas Jutkiewicz, Alan Hutton and Andre Moritz, who left the club in the summer.

Injuries to Mark Davies and Liam Trotter have also forced a tactical rethink – with Freedman confident his reboot will get results to take some of the pressure off his own shoulders.

“Looking back over a few months, a certain style was working for us at the end of last season and one or two personnel are now missing from that. We had to quickly change,” he said. “Losing Mark Davies in pre-season and Liam Trotter, who gives us driving force in midfield hasn’t helped us at all.

“We have got to go back to some basics to get some points on the board.

“We were too expansive against Derby and I asked too much of the players. We need to go back to the beginning – which I have done a few times in my time at Bolton – to grind results out. There’s no doubt in my mind we can do that.

“It’s unfortunate we have to do it because I thought we’d evolved a bit quicker.”

[EverSoYouri]

Have only just noticed this from yesterday's BN. Basics? Bollocks more like!

DOUGIE Freedman confirmed his “back to basics” plan will commence at Fulham tonight.

The Wanderers boss revealed he intends to simplify his team’s style in an effort to get out of the bottom three.

He says the decision was prompted by Saturday’s defeat against Derby but also the loss of players such as Lukas Jutkiewicz, Alan Hutton and Andre Moritz, who left the club in the summer.

Injuries to Mark Davies and Liam Trotter have also forced a tactical rethink – with Freedman confident his reboot will get results to take some of the pressure off his own shoulders.

“Looking back over a few months, a certain style was working for us at the end of last season and one or two personnel are now missing from that. We had to quickly change,” he said. “Losing Mark Davies in pre-season and Liam Trotter, who gives us driving force in midfield hasn’t helped us at all.

“We have got to go back to some basics to get some points on the board.

“We were too expansive against Derby and I asked too much of the players. We need to go back to the beginning – which I have done a few times in my time at Bolton – to grind results out. There’s no doubt in my mind we can do that.

“It’s unfortunate we have to do it because I thought we’d evolved a bit quicker.”

'We need to go back to bollocks - which I have done a few times in my time at Bolton.' Thanks, DSB. It all makes sense now.

[TANGODANCER]

'We need to go back to bollocks - which I have done a few times in my time at Bolton.' Thanks, DSB. It all makes sense now.

He's his own worst enemy. He's out of ideas, out of his book of plans and right now, out of affection and respect from the fans (and possibly the players). He'd be far better off saying nothing at all than some of the drivel he comes out with. Walter Mitty in a track suit.

[thebish]

track suit??? Dougie's a proper suit man! we all loved it following Coyles shorts and top approach!

[EverSoYouri]

track suit??? Dougie's a proper suit man! we all loved it following Coyles shorts and top approach!

Weird thing is, he always looks like his Mum's let him get himself ready for the first time and he hasn't quite got the knack.

[Gravedigger]

I think DF should be breathalysed at the start and end of each game. Only someone who is p****d would form a team like that then make ridiculous statements afterwards. He must have known that parking our 'Best' players on the bench and only then having access to three of them as subs had entered his mind. Someone mentioned teflon and kevlar but it has to lie deeper than even DF. Perhaps the value of a defunct BWFC is far less than the development value of the area. I think it's about time someone looked into the activity of our "Investors". Of course if we thrash Bournemouth then it'll be reet.

[TANGODANCER]

track suit??? Dougie's a proper suit man! we all loved it following Coyles shorts and top approach!

Ever looking for a fault to find, hey bish? . I suppose he wears a suit to training sessions then?