A Hard Day's Night by Lennon & McCarthy (A) Ipswich 3/11/15

[norm the jedi]

...and for many of us we may never see anything like it again in our lifetimes.

fxckin'ell
it's being so cheery that keeps one going.

About a hundred years ago at the Dell.. seconds after [from increasingly dodgy Memory] Barry Horne[?] had parted Disco Dave Felgates fuzzy felt perm with a speculative 40 yard volley. . Silence fell at the away end as we took in the fact that the Scummers had slapped us out of the FA cup 3-2 after we'd fought back from the brink to get to 2 each. As the realisation took hold and the choral moaning hub bub began to build, I heard a voice somewhere behind me. It came from a supporter who seemed to sound about as old as I am now, "Eeee dear! It's never been easy watchin this fecking lot!" He said to a chorus of unintelligible acsent. At that point I realised that following Bolton Wanderers was not in fact, as I had thought, recreational activity but actually an act of penance of indeterminate length more to be endured than enjoyed...
It's the mutually endured sense of communal masochism that keeps us going!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

You might well ask why we were 2-0 down at home to doomed Blackpool

Blackpool weren't doomed at the time, though? I if I remember, they were flying. That was a great second half by the way.

Well they were doomed to relegation

At kick-off they were 12th... seven places below us

...with 26 goals from 14 matches, Wanderers came into the game unbeaten in November and with a goal tally bettered by only four Premier League sides. Yet the home side initially struggled to achieve such penetration against their Lancashire rivals and had it not been for the Seasiders' refusal to sit on a two-goal cushion Holloway could have left the Reebok with the upper hand over his opposite number.

[Jugs]

I didn't say it entertains me, although I did enjoy the Derby and Wolves games.

I had a season ticket in 05/06 and 06/07. Haven't had one since because it was that sh*t to watch. Yes, we beat a few top teams now and then but most of the games were dire. Blackburn at home in 2005, derby. 0-0, shocking, shocking game of football. Man City at home, derby in 07. 0-0, awful game of 'football'. These games weren't shcoking by default; they were engineered by Allardyce's tactics and mindset. It was all about set pieces, long throws and lump the ball to Anelka's head and win the percentages. It was awful, mate, and only really fire and brimstone stuff when Arsenal came up.

Yes, it isn't great at the moment, but if we have a fully fit squad in January and IF the board will release some funds and IF the scouts and Lennon get together and bring in some talent, I'm optimistic that things will improve. We're in a malaise right now, but I'm hopeful it won't stay this way.

My comparison with Allardyce was because, as long as he was at the helm, I expected to be bored to tears. With Lennon, I'm hoping we can get back to the way we were last November/December. I doubt he purposefully wants to play shi.t football.

Plenty of people at the time were bored with the football Allardyce played. But in hindsight, surely you have to concede they were fantastic times?

I remember going to Blackburn at we won 1-0. Jussi saved two penalties in the last few minutes. Was it a classic game of football? No. But it was exhilarating. A feeling we're not coming close to recreating now.

Football is about winning. However you can. I don't really care about how we do it, if we become a side that wins more than it loses that will be entertaining enough. I would kill to go back to the days of Allardyce in the top flght or even Megson's time. We all took it for granted by the end I think and for many of us we may never see anything like it again in our lifetimes.

The Blackburn away game was no doubt fantastic, and there were some good games in there. Wigan away when Adranik scored was great. But great moments often wasn't down to the style of play.

The times under Allardyce were fantastic for me until around 2005, when he started to implement a certain style of play that really did bore me at most home games. When we beat Spurs on the first day of the 06/07 season, we were 2-0 up after 10 minutes and then closed the game out from there.

Sure, there were still good games in there, but there were too many dire moments. I remember when we beat Watford 1-0 at home on Anelka's debut. I think they hit the woodwork about 4 or 5 times and we got a last minute penalty. There were a lot of times when we got 3 points in a similar way. It was effective, but it wasn't pretty.

I really don't know where you're going with this, mate. You would prefer to have Lennon in charge rather than Allardyce?

urgh, I made a comparison of these recent "bad performances" and the abject performances under Allardyce that people have romanticized over the years, and basically said that I have watched worse games.

And, yes, I have watched worse games with talent like Anelka, Stelios and co. in the team, talent who Allardyce subjected to his rigid tactical ideals.

At the moment, performances are down because of mitigating factors; injuries, constant suspensions, zero cash, lack of confidence, awful luck (Allardyce had amazing luck, by contrast).

My point is this isn't Lennon's style of football, I'm certain. If he can keep his best XI fit, and if he can lift the players' confidence and MAYBE spend some cash in Jan on some talent, things will improve.

I also don't think performances are as bad as people are making out.

I really don't think I'm too worried by the views of someone who gave up on us after the 2005-06 season.

At least I put my views out there

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

About a hundred years ago at the Dell.. seconds after [from increasingly dodgy Memory] Barry Horne[?] had parted Disco Dave Felgates fuzzy felt perm with a speculative 40 yard volley.

Yes, Horne.

The coach got home about 4am. My mate Davey spent the whole journey back pulling open the ashtray on the seatback in front of him, sadly saying "Felgate" while punching it shut.

I was supposed to be at school the next day. Lovely mum phoned me in sick.

Highlights below. I'd argue four of the five are goalkeeping errors.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The nostalgiometer has just hit 9.5 out of ten. That's official then: we want the olden days back! (even if they were shit).

[Jugs]

Also, as an aside, the times under Allardyce were good, but the times under Rioch were much better. Now, they were great days!

[norm the jedi]

I'd argue four of the five are goalkeeping errors

I'd argue if you look up Felgate on dictionary.com it says Goalkeeping error.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd argue four of the five are goalkeeping errors

I'd argue if you look up Felgate on dictionary.com it says Goalkeeping error.

Now, Norm. You've been around long enough to know that Wales' No.1 was a serious upgrade on the likes of Simon "Look Mum No Gloves" Farnworth. I still say we might never have sunk to Division Four if he hadn't been hobbled in the second leg of the Aldershot game.

[BWFC_Insane]

urgh, I made a comparison of these recent "bad performances" and the abject performances under Allardyce that people have romanticized over the years, and basically said that I have watched worse games.

And, yes, I have watched worse games with talent like Anelka, Stelios and co. in the team, talent who Allardyce subjected to his rigid tactical ideals.

At the moment, performances are down because of mitigating factors; injuries, constant suspensions, zero cash, lack of confidence, awful luck (Allardyce had amazing luck, by contrast).

My point is this isn't Lennon's style of football, I'm certain. If he can keep his best XI fit, and if he can lift the players' confidence and MAYBE spend some cash in Jan on some talent, things will improve.

I also don't think performances are as bad as people are making out.

I really don't think I'm too worried by the views of someone who gave up on us after the 2005-06 season.

At least I put my views out there

You're beginning to sound more insane than me. Allardyce had "amazing luck" but poor Neil has "none". You make your own luck. Allardyce was incredibly careful in his recruitment and utilised sports science and recovery in a way no club ever had before then for fitness and injury prevention.

Allardyce had spells when lots went wrong but he had the ability to pull things back on track and had the right team around him.

Let us not forget Allardyce came in after a manager resigned because he'd had his best players sold from under him with the team near the bottom of the championship. (Ok Phil Brown did a good caretaker job in between). Then he lost half of that side and had to replace with very little to spend. He dragged us up more than took us. During the summer between champ and prem I think his only real signing was Henrik Pedersen for 800K. But he was smart and waited for the top talent on frees.

Allardyce had to deal with all the woes in your list, and he did. Good managers manage through difficult periods and plot courses out of them.

Lennon had the summer to revitalise and refresh the squad. He was restricted to free transfers but is hardly unique in that position in this league. He hasn't done very well. You can talk about all the bad luck, and other stuff if you like but he's here to manage. Not to shrug his shoulders and say "ah well can't be helped".

Like I say it isn't like people are unrealistically expecting him to win us promotion. That was not a luxury his predecessor enjoyed. Lennon has almost ridiculously low expectations in comparison. No real pressure on him in the same way previous managers have had. Yet even in that favourable environment he seems lost and doesn't seem to have any real idea about how to fix things.

[Jugs]

I'm not talking about the panorama of Allardyce's entire tenure, I'm talking about the last 2 seasons when he bored the socks off me. It's subjective. I'll never forget Birmingham away when he came out and said he'd "love a 0-0" beforehand. Yep, let's all get excited about travelling down to Brum for a 0-0. We lost by the way, 1-0.

Or the home collapse against newly promoted Reading.

What I don't understand is you won't accept any positives about Lennon, yet you don't want him sacked either?

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm not talking about the panorama of Allardyce's entire tenure, I'm talking about the last 2 seasons when he bored the socks off me. It's subjective. I'll never forget Birmingham away when he came out and said he'd "love a 0-0" beforehand. Yep, let's all get excited about travelling down to Brum for a 0-0. We lost by the way, 1-0.

Or the home collapse against newly promoted Reading.

What I don't understand is you won't accept any positives about Lennon, yet you don't want him sacked either?

Honestly what positives are there? I don't see any. I don't enjoy the games, we play awfully, lose mostly, are in the bottom three, Lennon has increasingly started to sound a bit mental, the selections seem random....I struggle to see anything significantly positive. He's improved slightly the back four on last season, there, that is one positive.

The problem with changing manager is that a) it takes money away from the playing squad (if any such money is there) and b) I don't see an obvious free experienced option ready to jump in.

If Ipswich sacked McCarthy or Brighton sacked Hughton for example I'd definitely be thinking they'd be good options IF we could attract them.

I don't think sacking Lennon will achieve much as is because we're going to be gambling on someone with no experience probably again.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I'd argue four of the five are goalkeeping errors

I'd argue if you look up Felgate on dictionary.com it says Goalkeeping error.

Now, Norm. You've been around long enough to know that Wales' No.1 was a serious upgrade on the likes of Simon "Look Mum No Gloves" Farnworth. I still say we might never have sunk to Division Four if he hadn't been hobbled in the second leg of the Aldershot game.

Simon Farnworth 83-87 App 113 (goals 0)*
David Felgate 87-93 App 223 (goals 0)

* Am I the only one who finds it annoying that in the stats for footballers in wiki they make no distinction for goalkeepers - they shouldn't put the number of goals they (didn't) score, they should put the number of goals they let in!

[Jugs]

I'm not talking about the panorama of Allardyce's entire tenure, I'm talking about the last 2 seasons when he bored the socks off me. It's subjective. I'll never forget Birmingham away when he came out and said he'd "love a 0-0" beforehand. Yep, let's all get excited about travelling down to Brum for a 0-0. We lost by the way, 1-0.

Or the home collapse against newly promoted Reading.

What I don't understand is you won't accept any positives about Lennon, yet you don't want him sacked either?

Honestly what positives are there? I don't see any. I don't enjoy the games, we play awfully, lose mostly, are in the bottom three, Lennon has increasingly started to sound a bit mental, the selections seem random....I struggle to see anything significantly positive. He's improved slightly the back four on last season, there, that is one positive.

The problem with changing manager is that a) it takes money away from the playing squad (if any such money is there) and b) I don't see an obvious free experienced option ready to jump in.

If Ipswich sacked McCarthy or Brighton sacked Hughton for example I'd definitely be thinking they'd be good options IF we could attract them.

I don't think sacking Lennon will achieve much as is because we're going to be gambling on someone with no experience probably again.

So what you need is a bit of optimism that things will get better

[Dr Hotdog]

Pick the bones out of that. I can see two counts of Prince Ball Watching (neither led to a goal) and one count of Amos Poor Positioning (he probably should have done better with the first, too, and judging by his reaction, he knows it).

Roll on Bristol City.

[Peter Thompson]

I'm not talking about the panorama of Allardyce's entire tenure, I'm talking about the last 2 seasons when he bored the socks off me. It's subjective. I'll never forget Birmingham away when he came out and said he'd "love a 0-0" beforehand. Yep, let's all get excited about travelling down to Brum for a 0-0. We lost by the way, 1-0.

Or the home collapse against newly promoted Reading.

What I don't understand is you won't accept any positives about Lennon, yet you don't want him sacked either?

To be honest I was pushing for us to get Lennon and at the time thought it was a real coup for us getting him - but 12 months later there are zero positives about Lennon, we have made absolutely zero progress, in fact we have gone backwards and he's now putting out a disjointed, disorganised, unmotivated, piss poor bunch of wasters on a regular basis, he's also now found Dougie's bingo machine and is using it to select the RB every week (despite spending what little cash on not one but 2 new full backs who he now won't play)

He's not addressed any of the issues required to move us forward - a striker who can score, a tough tackling midfield leader and a defensive solidity. Even though we have no money he's been allowed to bring in plenty of his own players of which none have improved the side.

I still like Lennon, but he hasn't got any idea whatsoever to get us out of this alarming slump - 1st thing for me is to drop Pratley, in the form he's in (his form of the 1st few years) he's liability, a plodding 'trotter' like cart house and he's supposedly our leader on the pitch - the team currently mirror Pratley i.e. lethargic, ambling, plodding, slow, can't be arsed. We have too many sulkers / shithouses in the side - Feeney, Vela who play with their heads down.

IMO his 'so called' passion is not enough on its own to get out us of the mess we are in, we need someone who can organise, motivate and get this bunch of 'very limited' players playing with pride, spirit & passion, pressing closing down the opposition, getting in their faces and playing with a quicker tempo - and also someone who is tactically aware and unfortunately Lennon is clearly clueless tactically.

I haven't got a clue who we could get or who would come here with this bunch of talentless wasters & also whether we can actually afford to replace him - but simply judging him on his managerial ability at BWFC in the last 12 months he can go now for me....he'll obviously not resign because he'll lose a pay off, but IMO his body language at recent games looks that of a man who doesn't want to be there, doesn't like the job & can't wait to get out because he knows that he can't improve 'his' shower of shite - this may possibly be due to Mjallby leaving or it could just be that he had it easy at Celtic....and perhaps he knows deep down that its nigh on impossible to get this bunch of players interested in winning football matches.

[Jugs]

I'm not talking about the panorama of Allardyce's entire tenure, I'm talking about the last 2 seasons when he bored the socks off me. It's subjective. I'll never forget Birmingham away when he came out and said he'd "love a 0-0" beforehand. Yep, let's all get excited about travelling down to Brum for a 0-0. We lost by the way, 1-0.

Or the home collapse against newly promoted Reading.

What I don't understand is you won't accept any positives about Lennon, yet you don't want him sacked either?

To be honest I was pushing for us to get Lennon and at the time thought it was a real coup for us getting him - but 12 months later there are zero positives about Lennon, we have made absolutely zero progress, in fact we have gone backwards and he's now putting out a disjointed, disorganised, unmotivated, piss poor bunch of wasters on a regular basis, he's also now found Dougie's bingo machine and is using it to select the RB every week (despite spending what little cash on not one but 2 new full backs who he now won't play)

He's not addressed any of the issues required to move us forward - a striker who can score, a tough tackling midfield leader and a defensive solidity. Even though we have no money he's been allowed to bring in plenty of his own players of which none have improved the side.

I still like Lennon, but he hasn't got any idea whatsoever to get us out of this alarming slump - 1st thing for me is to drop Pratley, in the form he's in (his form of the 1st few years) he's liability, a plodding 'trotter' like cart house and he's supposedly our leader on the pitch - the team currently mirror Pratley i.e. lethargic, ambling, plodding, slow, can't be arsed. We have too many sulkers / shithouses in the side - Feeney, Vela who play with their heads down.

IMO his 'so called' passion is not enough on its own to get out us of the mess we are in, we need someone who can organise, motivate and get this bunch of 'very limited' players playing with pride, spirit & passion, pressing closing down the opposition, getting in their faces and playing with a quicker tempo - and also someone who is tactically aware and unfortunately Lennon is clearly clueless tactically.

I haven't got a clue who we could get or who would come here with this bunch of talentless wasters & also whether we can actually afford to replace him - but simply judging him on his managerial ability at BWFC in the last 12 months he can go now for me....he'll obviously not resign because he'll lose a pay off, but IMO his body language at recent games looks that of a man who doesn't want to be there, doesn't like the job & can't wait to get out because he knows that he can't improve 'his' shower of shite - this may possibly be due to Mjallby leaving or it could just be that he had it easy at Celtic....and perhaps he knows deep down that its nigh on impossible to get this bunch of players interested in winning football matches.

Aye, I remember you were pushing for him; your enthusiasm even convinced me he was the right man

At least you're calling for his head after seeing zero positives, which makes you more sane than Insane who still wants him in charge despite seeing absolutely no positives

Personally, I'd like him to be given more time BUT a defeat on Saturday could be one defeat too many.

[norm the jedi]

I'd argue four of the five are goalkeeping errors

I'd argue if you look up Felgate on dictionary.com it says Goalkeeping error.

Now, Norm. You've been around long enough to know that Wales' No.1 was a serious upgrade on the likes of Simon "Look Mum No Gloves" Farnworth. I still say we might never have sunk to Division Four if he hadn't been hobbled in the second leg of the Aldershot game.

Aye fair enough I do have a soft spot for old Demi wave Dave - He used to make some fabulous saves but it always seemed like you were never very far from him chucking one his own net..

Bring back Seamus or was it Jim McDonagh ?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Bring back Seamus or was it Jim McDonagh ?

Still going at 63 - he's keeper coach for Ireland, after doing the same for MO'N at Sunderland. Mates with Steve Walford, then.

[Peter Thompson]

Aye, I remember you were pushing for him; your enthusiasm even convinced me he was the right man

At least you're calling for his head after seeing zero positives, which makes you more sane than Insane who still wants him in charge despite seeing absolutely no positives

Personally, I'd like him to be given more time BUT a defeat on Saturday could be one defeat too many.

Jugs I really want him to succeed, I like listening to him and he comes across like he knows the game and he's a sincere genuine man -but what I'm seeing on the pitch with his team selections, tactics, lack of team shape, no passion, slow tempo, no pressing like we did in his 1st few games I'm seriously doubting his managerial ability at a struggling side.

Like I said last night if we don't win on Saturday I think that fans will possibly turn on him & the players.

[clapton is god]

I don't think there's any chance whatsoever of Lennon being sacked. In fact I think he probably has the safest job in football right now. If we can't afford 30 bob and half a pig for a desperately needed striker we most certainly can't afford two years of his wages to get rid of him. Sit back - he's here for the long run.