The Debt.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

*[Apple, by the way, have filed their accounts for the year and among other things they have $206 billion in cash - yes, cash - lying around. Can anyone with an i-phone drop 'em a text and get them interested in buying a football club. I won't even mind if they rename us Bolton i-Wanderers]

Maybe they could pay the £400m in UK tax they avoided last year (by funnelling UK sales through Ireland). Doubt it though.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

*[Apple, by the way, have filed their accounts for the year and among other things they have $206 billion in cash - yes, cash - lying around. Can anyone with an i-phone drop 'em a text and get them interested in buying a football club. I won't even mind if they rename us Bolton i-Wanderers]

Maybe they could pay the £400m in UK tax they avoided last year (by funnelling UK sales through Ireland). Doubt it though.

i-doubt it too.

[BWFC_Insane]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

It makes no sense for any investor to come along and stick tens of millions in just to bail us out then run the club on a cheap basis. What is the point of doing that? They are just flushing 30M or more down the drain.

The reason any investor might buy us (beyond some mad superfan or an asset stripper) is because they want to take on a club who could reach the gravy train of the premiership and see a return on their investment. There is little point otherwise, because it is their only chance of seeing a return on their investment.

That is the problem what we're spending now has us bottom. Whilst I think it is very possible that some cheap or cost neutral improvements could be made to take us forward, reality is that to turn us into a team who could compete for promotion to the top flight within a reasonable (to an investor) amount of time is going to take additional investment on top of the loss we're already making.

That is the cold hard reality.

[BWFC_Insane]

Some of the consortia who have looked (the Thai one and Arab one) apparently did have considerable money behind them. That is of course different to wanting to invest lots of that money!

Well then that just brings me back to what I said earlier, which was: "...either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off" otherwise if the Thais had been genuine investors they'd have bought us by now.

Not necessarily. They may seriously want to invest in something but having had a cursory look at our position decided it isn't us. I don't think we are very attractive to an investor right now for fairly obvious reasons.

[thebish]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -ruin.html

Latest from the Sun. I assume Nixon though it doesn't say.

Highlights (or lowlights):
£2.2M needed within 2 weeks to pay HMRC
£15M to get through till end of season
Holdsworth consortium backed off (claims article)
Debts putting off potential owners
One new consortium in talks
Kevin Davies trying to raise money from investors

It says it is an "EXCLUSIVE by KEN LAWRENCE" not Nixon. Is he 'in the know'? I doubt it but these numbers have been banded about for quite a while now.

aye - and if you rearrange the letters from KEN LAWRENCE, take some out and add some more - you get KEVIN DAVIES...

[Jugs]

^^ lol

I don't know, this is just neverending.

[StaffsTrotter]

All sounds familiar from Reading - days from admin, dodgy bidders I can imagine EDs reflections on BWFC ownership and funding might be pretty similar
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34978656" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Some of the consortia who have looked (the Thai one and Arab one) apparently did have considerable money behind them. That is of course different to wanting to invest lots of that money!

Well then that just brings me back to what I said earlier, which was: "...either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off" otherwise if the Thais had been genuine investors they'd have bought us by now.

Not necessarily. They may seriously want to invest in something but having had a cursory look at our position decided it isn't us. I don't think we are very attractive to an investor right now for fairly obvious reasons.

Well I beg to differ. Football clubs will have to adjust to the new financial realities of billions in the top leagues and peanuts in the rest, but as it stands the only way an 'investor' is going to make money out of football is by having a Premiership club. But to buy a Premiership club (especially one that will stay a Premiership club) is well out of the reach of most investors. Therefore they need to look at a club on its uppers with potential to become a Premiership club, or (an experiment nobody has done yet) invest in a no-league or League 2 club with the intention of pumping enough money into it in order to promote it into the Premiership. And investors know there will be a shortfall between income and running costs in the championship while the new financial realities filter through but, given all of that, when a consortia comes along expressing an interest in buying a club like Bolton (on our uppers but still with infrastructure and a catchment area, and not a million places off potentially being promoted to Prem level), and they don't, then it's because either
a) They are all Billy Big Bollocks and never did have the necessary
b) the club is too expensive for them (and is being sold at a vastly inflated price to the £1 quoted)
c) the investment would be too expensive because the debt is actually larger than they have calculated for (which given the fact Eddie has written off the debt, means there is more hidden debt that has been undisclosed).
Nothing else would make much financial sense if they were the true investors with dosh you said they are.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

All sounds familiar from Reading - days from admin, dodgy bidders I can imagine EDs reflections on BWFC ownership and funding might be pretty similar
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34978656" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I note that Madejski is still chairman despite selling the club, twice.

[Lord Kangana]

Somebody just reminded me of the frightening prospect, a la LUFC, of someone coming in, buying the ground and then charging us ground rent for the next millennia. So much for administration.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

It makes no sense for any investor to come along and stick tens of millions in just to bail us out then run the club on a cheap basis. What is the point of doing that? They are just flushing 30M or more down the drain.

The reason any investor might buy us (beyond some mad superfan or an asset stripper) is because they want to take on a club who could reach the gravy train of the premiership and see a return on their investment. There is little point otherwise, because it is their only chance of seeing a return on their investment.

That is the problem what we're spending now has us bottom. Whilst I think it is very possible that some cheap or cost neutral improvements could be made to take us forward, reality is that to turn us into a team who could compete for promotion to the top flight within a reasonable (to an investor) amount of time is going to take additional investment on top of the loss we're already making.

That is the cold hard reality.

Clubs have been promoted with relatively small outlay to get them there. Not easy granted, but it only takes a season in the Premiership to earn a nice chunk on an outlay and that is probably as good odds as other stuff folk take a punt on...

[Hoboh]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

It makes no sense for any investor to come along and stick tens of millions in just to bail us out then run the club on a cheap basis. What is the point of doing that? They are just flushing 30M or more down the drain.

The reason any investor might buy us (beyond some mad superfan or an asset stripper) is because they want to take on a club who could reach the gravy train of the premiership and see a return on their investment. There is little point otherwise, because it is their only chance of seeing a return on their investment.

That is the problem what we're spending now has us bottom. Whilst I think it is very possible that some cheap or cost neutral improvements could be made to take us forward, reality is that to turn us into a team who could compete for promotion to the top flight within a reasonable (to an investor) amount of time is going to take additional investment on top of the loss we're already making.

That is the cold hard reality.

What premier league gravy train?
According to our accounts the debt was growing whilst there!

[BWFC_Insane]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

It makes no sense for any investor to come along and stick tens of millions in just to bail us out then run the club on a cheap basis. What is the point of doing that? They are just flushing 30M or more down the drain.

The reason any investor might buy us (beyond some mad superfan or an asset stripper) is because they want to take on a club who could reach the gravy train of the premiership and see a return on their investment. There is little point otherwise, because it is their only chance of seeing a return on their investment.

That is the problem what we're spending now has us bottom. Whilst I think it is very possible that some cheap or cost neutral improvements could be made to take us forward, reality is that to turn us into a team who could compete for promotion to the top flight within a reasonable (to an investor) amount of time is going to take additional investment on top of the loss we're already making.

That is the cold hard reality.

Clubs have been promoted with relatively small outlay to get them there. Not easy granted, but it only takes a season in the Premiership to earn a nice chunk on an outlay and that is probably as good odds as other stuff folk take a punt on...

They have been. But it gets harder as the parachute payments increase and clubs from the top flight come down stronger and stronger. Also hoping that happens is way too big a risk for someone sticking this sort of money in.

Another thing to bear in mind is we lose another 8M next season as the parachute payment ends. So another 8M off the income, 8M more for an investor to pump in to fund a league one (probably) side.

[BWFC_Insane]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

It makes no sense for any investor to come along and stick tens of millions in just to bail us out then run the club on a cheap basis. What is the point of doing that? They are just flushing 30M or more down the drain.

The reason any investor might buy us (beyond some mad superfan or an asset stripper) is because they want to take on a club who could reach the gravy train of the premiership and see a return on their investment. There is little point otherwise, because it is their only chance of seeing a return on their investment.

That is the problem what we're spending now has us bottom. Whilst I think it is very possible that some cheap or cost neutral improvements could be made to take us forward, reality is that to turn us into a team who could compete for promotion to the top flight within a reasonable (to an investor) amount of time is going to take additional investment on top of the loss we're already making.

That is the cold hard reality.

What premier league gravy train?
According to our accounts the debt was growing whilst there!

The money went up considerably since. When we were there most sides made a loss. Now most can make profit with the new TV deal.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Presumably any buyer wont be paying Wheater et al gazillions when contracts run out and the likes of Amos sold. Any buyer can run the club in a financially sensible fashion after a period of offloading the high earners. They may even be able to improve the on pitch stuff at lower running costs!

It makes no sense for any investor to come along and stick tens of millions in just to bail us out then run the club on a cheap basis. What is the point of doing that? They are just flushing 30M or more down the drain.

The reason any investor might buy us (beyond some mad superfan or an asset stripper) is because they want to take on a club who could reach the gravy train of the premiership and see a return on their investment. There is little point otherwise, because it is their only chance of seeing a return on their investment.

That is the problem what we're spending now has us bottom. Whilst I think it is very possible that some cheap or cost neutral improvements could be made to take us forward, reality is that to turn us into a team who could compete for promotion to the top flight within a reasonable (to an investor) amount of time is going to take additional investment on top of the loss we're already making.

That is the cold hard reality.

Clubs have been promoted with relatively small outlay to get them there. Not easy granted, but it only takes a season in the Premiership to earn a nice chunk on an outlay and that is probably as good odds as other stuff folk take a punt on...

They have been. But it gets harder as the parachute payments increase and clubs from the top flight come down stronger and stronger. Also hoping that happens is way too big a risk for someone sticking this sort of money in.

Another thing to bear in mind is we lose another 8M next season as the parachute payment ends. So another 8M off the income, 8M more for an investor to pump in to fund a league one (probably) side.

How do you know that? It's maybe not a 'risk' that many of us would take, but that isn't to say someone with money and an ego isn't willing. All it takes is someone with over confidence and money...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The money went up considerably since. When we were there most sides made a loss. Now most can make profit with the new TV deal.

Can. Bet they don't. As has been noted several times, whenever the TV money jumps, so does the wage bill in the following season or two.

[Lord Kangana]

Hang on, we got f*cking parachute payments. What good did it do us?

Just because other teams get them doesn't mean they'll A) Spend it wisely on the right players B) Not have already f*cked themselves over mortgaging their their souls before they ever considered relegation.

[thebish]

^ good point, well made!

[boltonboris]

Since when was putting money into a football club a sound commercial investment?

It never has been, yet almost every club in the top 2 divisions has been bought out in the last decade.

It'd never made any sense and most likely never will, yet people still do it