Gartside out

[FaninOz]

Christ we are still in the Premiership. I constantly listen to morons complaining how Bolton don't deserve to be in the PL for various reasons including our style, the number of fans we have, that we are too small etc etc. At the end of it we are still in the PL despite the odds, and I feel Gartside deserves his share of credit for that great achievement.

Couldn't agree more, Gartside has done a very good job overall as he has masterminded our stay in the Premiership for 10 seasons and that can't be bad. There have been ups and downs but we are still here and doing well.

However, I believe that we shoudn't get carried away with the 5th position as there are so few points covering 5th to 17th so that position could change quite dramatically over coming weeks if our current excellent level of performance should change. But on the positive side we are in good form and we can only hope that that will continue.

The only cloud is the debt issue which could result in some player changes in January but I believe that we do have some good reserves and we could cover the loss of Cahill, but less so Elmander as goal scorers are notoriously more difficult to replace in the premiership. But then there is no certainty that he will continue to play and score at his current level for the rest of the season.

So on balance Gartside has done and continues to do a very good leadership job for the club so doesn't deserve any serious citicism.

[Worthy4England]

So do you gamble on giving the investment to someone you're fairly sure is buggering off anyhow - knowing that he might just sign a 35 year old superstar on a retirement package and we could still fail to qualify for CL, or do you keep hold so the incoming manager has something to work with...

I see your point, but Sammy Lee didn't get much in the way of funds either. Maybe that's a good thing. Or maybe he would have done better in the market and the league if he had more to work with. I don't know.

What I find amusing is that some people forgive Gartside for not giving more money to Allardyce, and also think Megson did well to beat relegation by a point. Either the team was in need of an overhaul and Gartside screwed up by not getting the money earlier, or the team didn't need the money and Megson did a horrible job taking a team from 7th to 16th. Can't have it both ways.

Gartside can't just go out and get money - he's there to operate the Club on the money it has. The Club is effectively owned by one person (not Gartside) and if that person says "This is all we have at the moment and no more", then there's not much Gartside could do about it. Theoretically, he could court other investors, but then it would need to go to a vote (95% of which is controlled by the same bloke). It doesn't grow on trees, and the supply isn't limitless - I've not noticed you offering £400m for the Club, probably because you don't have it - but given that it's so easy to get the level of sustained investment required, I'm sure it would only take a week to get a Consortium buy-out sorted.

We're lucky to be in the Prem for as long as we have been, through the sustained investment of that one person. It's entirely possible that the team needed an overhaul, but we couldn't afford it until the additional TV money came through the year after Allardyce was asking for it, and we sold Anelka.

You're also missing the point that the team Megson took over did actually only have 5 points from 10 games. I think he may have mentioned in an interview - you may have missed it . His points tally for the rest of the season had it been extrapolated across 38 games would have put us in 12th not 16th. You could put that "major dip" - which would have been our 5th highest finish in 50 years, bit of a guess but probably not far wrong, down to managerial changes causing uncertainty in the squad, key players being a year older, things that had been familiar for 8 years now being not so familiar, back-room staff changes, previous manager trying to change the whole playing style in 3 weeks, needing to change whole playing style back to something the team was more used to mid-season, being left with people like Braaten, Wilhelmsson until the season's half over, etc. etc. After being sat next to the bloke who ran the team who finished 7th, Sammy Lee couldn't run it - and he must've known all the ins and outs.

I think it's entirely possible to have it both ways, at the point in time you're referring to - end of Megson's first part season in charge - I think the major problem with Megson other than his general style/footballing philosophy, wasn't his first season performance, it was his inability to push on from there, given the relatively high level of investment he had.

Bolton staying in the Premiership for so long is a good indication that generally the people that run it are all doing their jobs pretty well. Even given our current level of probably unsustainable debt, we're still punching above our weight.

[BWFC_Insane]

So do you gamble on giving the investment to someone you're fairly sure is buggering off anyhow - knowing that he might just sign a 35 year old superstar on a retirement package and we could still fail to qualify for CL, or do you keep hold so the incoming manager has something to work with...

I see your point, but Sammy Lee didn't get much in the way of funds either. Maybe that's a good thing. Or maybe he would have done better in the market and the league if he had more to work with. I don't know.

What I find amusing is that some people forgive Gartside for not giving more money to Allardyce, and also think Megson did well to beat relegation by a point. Either the team was in need of an overhaul and Gartside screwed up by not getting the money earlier, or the team didn't need the money and Megson did a horrible job taking a team from 7th to 16th. Can't have it both ways.

The fact that you miss is that the club fell apart when Allardyce left because of the way he'd run it for the past 8 years.

His entire very large staff began to leave one by one, Lee was appointed as it was thought he'd be able to hold things together and offer consistency, in HINDSIGHT that was not the case and he could not plug the leaks of staff dripping away. And it affected the whole club not just the first team coaches you knew about, people you'll never have even heard of who were important cogs were going.

It fell apart.

Consequently results fell apart on the pitch as new staff came in with new ideas that took time to bed down and players, used to a certain way for so long were asked to change. We also had an ageing squad some of which whom were a bit unhappy for a whole variety of reasons.

Hence we got 5 points from 10 games and Megson came into what was an absolute mess. I think its missing the point to go on about their league finish the season before. Yes they achieved that, but legs went by January and we were on borrowed time from then on. Lee and Megson were hampered by deals already put in place, Dzemailli, Michalik done in February by Allardyce and Samuel and McCann also agreed though not publicised formally.

At the time when Anelka went I think most on here believed we were in big trouble. I should imagine you HP were amongst those. So lets not re-write history and pretend Megson inherited worldbeaters and turned them into conference players as you're very keen on that term.

His first two seasons were fine, things went pear shaped in his third one and he was rightly replaced. But he had put the club back to the point where we had some stability and a change of manager and immediate coaching staff made a big difference, partly because of the work Megson put in.

Its clear he struggled to manage the players to the best of their abilities but that is just one aspect of the job.

I think what annoys me most about Allardyce is all the crap he talked of about legacy, yes he left a fantastic history at the club but he left nothing tangible apart from perhaps Anelka, and lets face it, Eddie Davies was as much to thank for that. Other than that he took everything else he wanted and those that didn't go with him left anyways. Thats not a legacy, more like a ticking time bomb.

In terms of giving Allardyce the money to keep him there, I genuinely don't think it was available at that time. Eddie had already invested significantly the season before and I got the impression at that time didn't have anymore to invest. Gartside did say to me they were looking at "restructuring" finances to allow for more investment but I think at the time that particular summer they gave Lee what they had, and it would have been the same for Sam. Not sure what they could do, it wasn't until the summer after that Megson had any "new cash" to spend, remembering that in January he sold Anelka for 15M and didn't spend all of that money then!

[thebish]

So do you gamble on giving the investment to someone you're fairly sure is buggering off anyhow - knowing that he might just sign a 35 year old superstar on a retirement package and we could still fail to qualify for CL, or do you keep hold so the incoming manager has something to work with...

I see your point, but Sammy Lee didn't get much in the way of funds either. Maybe that's a good thing. Or maybe he would have done better in the market and the league if he had more to work with. I don't know.

What I find amusing is that some people forgive Gartside for not giving more money to Allardyce, and also think Megson did well to beat relegation by a point. Either the team was in need of an overhaul and Gartside screwed up by not getting the money earlier, or the team didn't need the money and Megson did a horrible job taking a team from 7th to 16th. Can't have it both ways.

surely part of the point is that Megson did not follow Allardyce - he followed lee. Maybe Gartside judged (quite reasonably) that Sam's legacy did not necessitate wads of cash being thrown at it. Sammy Lee's legacy, however looked a whole lot more like a crisis and Gartside's judgement was that Megson PLUS cash would repair the damage (and that also seems to have been reasonable with hindsight)

in other words asking why Megson got cash when Allardyce didn't kind of ignores the fact that there was a whole other chapter between the two - called Chapter Lee...

[bobo the clown]

My recollection & understanding is that Allardyce & Gartside fell out, quite badly, over matters surrounding the Panorama claims ... & especially the role of little Craigie Allardyce.

Add to that the ambition Allardcye had for the England job (surely fckd by those very same allegations) and the big man's disappointment at not being allowed to spend big at the very time that people were questioning his methods & it was all unravelling.

Later big spending by him proved to be pretty dubious as well, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Lee had been groomed to be his replacement, the opportunity arose & he'd been promised the job. Whether he ever should have been promised it is a different question, but Gartside's error was making that promise and keeping to it.

To be fair to Lee many of the signings he made had been teed up in the Allardyce period. No-one will ever know if Dzemali was the player BFSA claimed he was but he was injured while on a pre-contracr agreement. Gerald Cid ???? Not anyone you'd want to nail your purchasing CV onto is he ? Allardyce set his signing up. Braaten I'm not sure. Lee signed O'Brien who went on to be the player of the season that year.

The fact that he also took a huge number of his backroom staff & the Faye & must have disturbed Diouff, Jussi and Nolan with his interest in them won't have helped either. So I do think Garty made an error chosing Lee at a time when we must have been quite a catch for an upcoming manager.

He got rid of Lee in time, however, which was good. Megson ? ... Well, the others interested by then put his choice in a better light than otherwise. He famously "did what he was brought in to do" ... bought well, but of course had the man-management skills of Hermann Goerring. The fans who gave him stick from day 1 still need to give themselves a good talking to, but in the end they were proven right. Again, he got him out before matters got completekly out of hand and, by the end, Megson's exit was mourned only by "those who know football", but not in Bolton.

For anyone to challenge Gartside's role as Chairman is really quite disturbing & we just need to look around at the other nameable Chairmen and wonder just how many better ones there are.

[boltonboris]

Gartside is well rubbish.. hes not even a bazillionaire! Why didn't he go over to Argentina and scout Messi when he was young? why did he let chelsea buy drogba.. we should a got him

[Lofthouse Lower]

My recollection & understanding is that Allardyce & Gartside fell out, quite badly, over matters surrounding the Panorama claims ... & especially the role of little Craigie Allardyce.

Add to that the ambition Allardcye had for the England job (surely fckd by those very same allegations) and the big man's disappointment at not being allowed to spend big at the very time that people were questioning his methods & it was all unravelling.

Later big spending by him proved to be pretty dubious as well, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Lee had been groomed to be his replacement, the opportunity arose & he'd been promised the job. Whether he ever should have been promised it is a different question, but Gartside's error was making that promise and keeping to it.

To be fair to Lee many of the signings he made had been teed up in the Allardyce period. No-one will ever know if Dzemali was the player BFSA claimed he was but he was injured while on a pre-contracr agreement. Gerald Cid ???? Not anyone you'd want to nail your purchasing CV onto is he ? Allardyce set his signing up. Braaten I'm not sure. Lee signed O'Brien who went on to be the player of the season that year.

The fact that he also took a huge number of his backroom staff & the Faye & must have disturbed Diouff, Jussi and Nolan with his interest in them won't have helped either. So I do think Garty made an error chosing Lee at a time when we must have been quite a catch for an upcoming manager.

He got rid of Lee in time, however, which was good. Megson ? ... Well, the others interested by then put his choice in a better light than otherwise. He famously "did what he was brought in to do" ... bought well, but of course had the man-management skills of Hermann Goerring. The fans who gave him stick from day 1 still need to give themselves a good talking to, but in the end they were proven right. Again, he got him out before matters got completekly out of hand and, by the end, Megson's exit was mourned only by "those who know football", but not in Bolton.

For anyone to challenge Gartside's role as Chairman is really quite disturbing & we just need to look around at the other nameable Chairmen and wonder just how many better ones there are.

Good post, but I wouldn't mind a bit more clarification on the emboldened point - why should they 'give themselves a good talking to'?

[bobo the clown]

Because to give anyone, anyone at all, zero chance is to be unfair. Indeed it may well have brought on that very thing that they were fearing.

It's hardly surprising that the guy never communicated with the fans when he was booed by them actually before he officially took over.

It'd be like me saying "that East Lower's a tosser" and treating you as such bfore you proved you were.

You may well be, but I should let you prove it for yourself first.

[Hoboh]

My recollection & understanding is that Allardyce & Gartside fell out, quite badly, over matters surrounding the Panorama claims ... & especially the role of little Craigie Allardyce.

Add to that the ambition Allardcye had for the England job (surely fckd by those very same allegations) and the big man's disappointment at not being allowed to spend big at the very time that people were questioning his methods & it was all unravelling.

Later big spending by him proved to be pretty dubious as well, which shouldn't be overlooked.

Lee had been groomed to be his replacement, the opportunity arose & he'd been promised the job. Whether he ever should have been promised it is a different question, but Gartside's error was making that promise and keeping to it.

To be fair to Lee many of the signings he made had been teed up in the Allardyce period. No-one will ever know if Dzemali was the player BFSA claimed he was but he was injured while on a pre-contracr agreement. Gerald Cid ???? Not anyone you'd want to nail your purchasing CV onto is he ? Allardyce set his signing up. Braaten I'm not sure. Lee signed O'Brien who went on to be the player of the season that year.

The fact that he also took a huge number of his backroom staff & the Faye & must have disturbed Diouff, Jussi and Nolan with his interest in them won't have helped either. So I do think Garty made an error chosing Lee at a time when we must have been quite a catch for an upcoming manager.

He got rid of Lee in time, however, which was good. Megson ? ... Well, the others interested by then put his choice in a better light than otherwise. He famously "did what he was brought in to do" ... bought well, but of course had the man-management skills of Hermann Goerring. The fans who gave him stick from day 1 still need to give themselves a good talking to, but in the end they were proven right. Again, he got him out before matters got completekly out of hand and, by the end, Megson's exit was mourned only by "those who know football", but not in Bolton.

For anyone to challenge Gartside's role as Chairman is really quite disturbing & we just need to look around at the other nameable Chairmen and wonder just how many better ones there are.

Good post, but I wouldn't mind a bit more clarification on the emboldened point - why should they 'give themselves a good talking to'?

Because in "Mego land" we're all barking mad (Not the clever shrewd guys we proved to be )

[SonsOfThunder]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did Gartside do in the Carling Cup Final?

[Bruce Rioja]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did Gartside do in the Carling Cup Final?

He absolutely insisted that Emeron Thome got a game!

[thebish]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did Gartside do in the Carling Cup Final?

ticket fiasco... (best not go there!)

[Wandering Willy]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did Gartside do in the Carling Cup Final?

It is said by some that he caused a few people to miss a sitter on Cup Final day.

[William the White]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did Gartside do in the Carling Cup Final?

Season ticket holders were offered double tickets. many - most - took this offer (I did). So, some season ticket holders found they couldn't get tickets. and some friends-of-season-ticket-holders who rarely attend did get them.

The reason was that we had dreadful attendances at every game in that cup, including the semi-final against aston villa. Until the final there was very little evidence any significant number of Bolton fans really cared. This helped me salve my conscience as I disposed of tickets to friends and family who were supporters no longer living in Bolton...

[Ianmooreslovechild]

Christ we are still in the Premiership. I constantly listen to morons complaining how Bolton don't deserve to be in the PL for various reasons including our style, the number of fans we have, that we are too small etc etc. At the end of it we are still in the PL despite the odds, and I feel Gartside deserves his share of credit for that great achievement.

Couldn't agree more, Gartside has done a very good job overall as he has masterminded our stay in the Premiership for 10 seasons and that can't be bad. There have been ups and downs but we are still here and doing well.

However, I believe that we shoudn't get carried away with the 5th position as there are so few points covering 5th to 17th so that position could change quite dramatically over coming weeks if our current excellent level of performance should change. But on the positive side we are in good form and we can only hope that that will continue.

The only cloud is the debt issue which could result in some player changes in January but I believe that we do have some good reserves and we could cover the loss of Cahill, but less so Elmander as goal scorers are notoriously more difficult to replace in the premiership. But then there is no certainty that he will continue to play and score at his current level for the rest of the season.

So on balance Gartside has done and continues to do a very good leadership job for the club so doesn't deserve any serious citicism.

Can't argue with this..We've been punching well above our weight for ten years without a sugar daddy and the current team is playing great football. Allardyce seemed to lose his touch toward the end of his time at the club,Lee naively tried a mini revolution on zero budget and Megson dug a stable trench that kept us in the premiership.
Megson had to be given money as the players left after lee and Allardyce weren't good enough.Megson spent the money very well on the whole and the players he left are worth a lot more than what we paid for them.Megson may have been a crap manager in terms of personality and impact on the playes he signed but with the exception of Holden he put together the team we enjoy watching now.
Coyle is just able to make more of them because he breeds an attitude of belief.
Coyle will move on to a bigger club in a couple of years so we'd best make the most of it while it lasts.

[SonsOfThunder]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly did Gartside do in the Carling Cup Final?

Season ticket holders were offered double tickets. many - most - took this offer (I did). So, some season ticket holders found they couldn't get tickets. and some friends-of-season-ticket-holders who rarely attend did get them.

The reason was that we had dreadful attendances at every game in that cup, including the semi-final against aston villa. Until the final there was very little evidence any significant number of Bolton fans really cared. This helped me salve my conscience as I disposed of tickets to friends and family who were supporters no longer living in Bolton...

Doesn't sound like faulty logic on Gartside's part. He couldn't have known that people would suddenly start to care en masse once the Final came around.

[CAPSLOCK]

Most people who deserved tickets got them

The ones who didn't could be forgiven for thinking Gartside should be shot

[bw@bw]

Christ we are still in the Premiership. I constantly listen to morons complaining how Bolton don't deserve to be in the PL for various reasons including our style, the number of fans we have, that we are too small etc etc. At the end of it we are still in the PL despite the odds, and I feel Gartside deserves his share of credit for that great achievement.

Couldn't agree more, Gartside has done a very good job overall as he has masterminded our stay in the Premiership for 10 seasons and that can't be bad. There have been ups and downs but we are still here and doing well.

However, I believe that we shoudn't get carried away with the 5th position as there are so few points covering 5th to 17th so that position could change quite dramatically over coming weeks if our current excellent level of performance should change. But on the positive side we are in good form and we can only hope that that will continue.

The only cloud is the debt issue which could result in some player changes in January but I believe that we do have some good reserves and we could cover the loss of Cahill, but less so Elmander as goal scorers are notoriously more difficult to replace in the premiership. But then there is no certainty that he will continue to play and score at his current level for the rest of the season.

So on balance Gartside has done and continues to do a very good leadership job for the club so doesn't deserve any serious citicism.

Can't argue with this..We've been punching well above our weight for ten years without a sugar daddy and the current team is playing great football. Allardyce seemed to lose his touch toward the end of his time at the club,Lee naively tried a mini revolution on zero budget and Megson dug a stable trench that kept us in the premiership.
Megson had to be given money as the players left after lee and Allardyce weren't good enough.Megson spent the money very well on the whole and the players he left are worth a lot more than what we paid for them.Megson may have been a crap manager in terms of personality and impact on the playes he signed but with the exception of Holden he put together the team we enjoy watching now.
Coyle is just able to make more of them because he breeds an attitude of belief.
Coyle will move on to a bigger club in a couple of years so we'd best make the most of it while it lasts.

Thing is - just where is he likely to go?

Better than us (cash wise) but not in the Euro Super League