Holden

[BWFC_Insane]

An article highlighting Holdens stats:

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/bolton/stuart-stats" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ta very much Keveh.

Extending those figures our win % this season with Holden is 41%.

Without Holden its 17%.

Anyways I was depressed yesterday but its time to move on now, there is nowt we can do about it. I do think its harmed our chances but I suppose nobody thinks it hasn't. Hopefully the two weeks off gives Coyle chance to work out some sort of plan. It also highlights how wafer thin our squad is in some key areas. Some work to do in the summer methinks!

[Tombwfc]

These percentages look great, but according to those stats we've only played 8 games without Holden this season (which isn't really a representative sample compared to 29 games with him) and the teams we lost to without him are Burnley, City and Liverpool away.

So yeah, he's a loss, but it's nowhere near as drastic as those figures would suggest.

[BWFC_Insane]

These percentages look great, but according to those stats we've only played 8 games without Holden this season (which isn't really a representative sample compared to 29 games with him) and the teams we lost to without him are Burnley, City and Liverpool away.

So yeah, he's a loss, but it's nowhere near as drastic as those figures would suggest.

At best Tom we don't know how big a loss it will be. It could well be as "drastic" as those figures suggest because simply we don't know. I mean it could very feasibly be that the whole difference between our season this time and our very consistent 1ppg but ultimately pretty rubbish season last time out.

I think the worry is Coyle wants to play 4-4-2, without Holden IMO we still have lots of good players, but I don't see a 4-4-2 balance there.

Davies and Muamba for me are not good enough together to keep the midfield under control. And Cohen just isn't sharp or clever enough either. Its hard to see where we'll go really. I hope he doesn't use LCY in the centre as for me that takes away his best attributes and also I think he's not really suited to that role.

We're in a little bit of a catch 22 as we've looked good with 2 up front this season and we're struggling to fit all our forwards in anyways, but then we're now struggling in behind that.

[ohjimmyjimmy]

My feelings are:

- We've enough without Holden to win 3 more league games, easily.
- We've enough to beat Stoke due to the way they play, a midfield battle is not exactly the
way it will pan out.
- If we get to the final, we'll struggle against either team and this is where we'll miss Holden the most, his enthusasm for a challenge against higher calibre players would be missed big style.

[BWFC_Insane]

Personally I think against Stoke the midfield battle is crucial.

Stoke's game relies on supply to their wingers and Jones. All of which relies on their midfield "dominating" the other teams. Just because they don't pop it around Arsenal style doesn't mean that midfield isn't crucial. Whoever wins that battle will win the game IMO!

[ohjimmyjimmy]

I dont see it being stuck in midfield, if they get it wide then its quickly and directly, from what i've seen of them.

[BWFC_Insane]

I dont see it being stuck in midfield, if they get it wide then its quickly and directly, from what i've seen of them.

They do what our side under Allardyce used to. Pin teams in and keep them under pressure. That relies on them winning the midfield battle. Its a myth that all they do is launch it forwards. They're direct, they put it in the box a lot but at their place this season, we got totally overrun in midfield. And yes Holden was playing, but he wasn't fully fit and he was IIRC on the right bloody wing!

[ohjimmyjimmy]

i never mentioned that did i, about Holden already playing against them this season...mehtinks you're still worrying about your stats too much

[Bruce Rioja]

Personally I think against Stoke the midfield battle is crucial.

No, no, no. Stoke just nice person it up to the big lad and have Stretch Armstrong on hand to take throw-ins.

[Tombwfc]

These percentages look great, but according to those stats we've only played 8 games without Holden this season (which isn't really a representative sample compared to 29 games with him) and the teams we lost to without him are Burnley, City and Liverpool away.

So yeah, he's a loss, but it's nowhere near as drastic as those figures would suggest.

At best Tom we don't know how big a loss it will be. It could well be as "drastic" as those figures suggest because simply we don't know. I mean it could very feasibly be that the whole difference between our season this time and our very consistent 1ppg but ultimately pretty rubbish season last time out.

I think the worry is Coyle wants to play 4-4-2, without Holden IMO we still have lots of good players, but I don't see a 4-4-2 balance there.

Davies and Muamba for me are not good enough together to keep the midfield under control. And Cohen just isn't sharp or clever enough either. Its hard to see where we'll go really. I hope he doesn't use LCY in the centre as for me that takes away his best attributes and also I think he's not really suited to that role.

We're in a little bit of a catch 22 as we've looked good with 2 up front this season and we're struggling to fit all our forwards in anyways, but then we're now struggling in behind that.

Well.... yes, without the ability to see the future, we don't know. Maybe Holden was holding us back all this time and Tamir is going to fire us to Cup glory? Maybe we'll not win a game for 6 months? Maybe Stoke would beat us regardless? Maybe we'll beat Stoke regardless? Maybe LCY will fail a drugs test and we'll be kicked out of the cup? Maybe the stadium will collapse? Maybe, maybe, maybe. There is nothing to say either way, except a fairly ropey set of statistics, why be so unequivocal that we're doomed?

If anything, none of the above scenarios are more ridiculous than the idea that one little pea-headed American single handedly dragged us from 18th to 7th through sheer force of will.

All that I do know for a fact is that if we don't win the Cup outright, 'we'd have won it if Holden was fit' is going to be the new 'we'd have won it if Deano wasn't a useless, slick haired, poncy nice person'. At least, until Elmander misses an open goal against Stoke...

As for losing the 'midfield battle', Stoke's central midfielders are currently Dean Whitehead and Glenn Whelan.

[BWFC_Insane]

These percentages look great, but according to those stats we've only played 8 games without Holden this season (which isn't really a representative sample compared to 29 games with him) and the teams we lost to without him are Burnley, City and Liverpool away.

So yeah, he's a loss, but it's nowhere near as drastic as those figures would suggest.

At best Tom we don't know how big a loss it will be. It could well be as "drastic" as those figures suggest because simply we don't know. I mean it could very feasibly be that the whole difference between our season this time and our very consistent 1ppg but ultimately pretty rubbish season last time out.

I think the worry is Coyle wants to play 4-4-2, without Holden IMO we still have lots of good players, but I don't see a 4-4-2 balance there.

Davies and Muamba for me are not good enough together to keep the midfield under control. And Cohen just isn't sharp or clever enough either. Its hard to see where we'll go really. I hope he doesn't use LCY in the centre as for me that takes away his best attributes and also I think he's not really suited to that role.

We're in a little bit of a catch 22 as we've looked good with 2 up front this season and we're struggling to fit all our forwards in anyways, but then we're now struggling in behind that.

Well.... yes, without the ability to see the future, we don't know. Maybe Holden was holding us back all this time and Tamir is going to fire us to Cup glory? Maybe we'll not win a game for 6 months? Maybe Stoke would beat us regardless? Maybe we'll beat Stoke regardless? Maybe LCY will fail a drugs test and we'll be kicked out of the cup? Maybe the stadium will collapse? Maybe, maybe, maybe. There is nothing to say either way, except a fairly ropey set of statistics, why be so unequivocal that we're doomed?

If anything, none of the above scenarios are more ridiculous than the idea that one little pea-headed American single handedly dragged us from 18th to 7th through sheer force of will.

All that I do know for a fact is that if we don't win the Cup outright, 'we'd have won it if Holden was fit' is going to be the new 'we'd have won it if Deano wasn't a useless, slick haired, poncy tw*t'. At least, until Elmander misses an open goal against Stoke...

As for losing the 'midfield battle', Stoke's central midfielders are currently Dean Whitehead and Glenn Whelan.

Don't think Whitehead is playing for em much now. Isn't it that Marc Wilson (who used to play for Pompey and is a decent player) in there?

[hisroyalgingerness]

For what it's worth - I think Mark Davies and Muamba will be adequate in the centre of the park. I suppose the fear is that there's nothing behind these two. Cohen will not be match fit and will likely spend any time on the pitch trying to keep up with shadows, but in fairness to the lad that's what he did in his first season and he still managed to bag a few goals.

Still think that in terms of workrate and skill with the ball, young Alonso could be an option

[wonka]

Didn't Holden's absence during the bad run also coincide with CYL's disappearance? Those statistics don't really prove anything.

Coyle managed to climb the table last season without Holden.

Holden's undoubtedly a great player for us, and gives us a slight edge, but we are still a decent team without him. Certainly capable of beating Stoke.

Mavies & Muamba will still be pretty effective together, but if either of them get injured, then it will begin to weaken us.

Holden will always be prone to injury, he's a high-tempo player who goes into every challenge 100% committed.

[thebish]

These percentages look great, but according to those stats we've only played 8 games without Holden this season (which isn't really a representative sample compared to 29 games with him) and the teams we lost to without him are Burnley, City and Liverpool away.

So yeah, he's a loss, but it's nowhere near as drastic as those figures would suggest.

stats are slippery..

we have played stoke twice this season - both times with Holden in the team - won one, lost one.

therefore - we are just as likely to lose the semi final against stoke WITH Holden in the team as we are to win it...

hmmmmm....

[hisroyalgingerness]

Didn't Holden's absence during the bad run also coincide with CYL's disappearance? Those statistics don't really prove anything.

Coyle managed to climb the table last season without Holden.

Holden's undoubtedly a great player for us, and gives us a slight edge, but we are still a decent team without him. Certainly capable of beating Stoke.

Mavies & Muamba will still be pretty effective together, but if either of them get injured, then it will begin to weaken us.

Holden will always be prone to injury, he's a high-tempo player who goes into every challenge 100% committed.

It partly coincided with the Corrie tram crash, which was proven to be the root cause of all our issues

[BWFC_Insane]

For what it's worth - I think Mark Davies and Muamba will be adequate in the centre of the park. I suppose the fear is that there's nothing behind these two. Cohen will not be match fit and will likely spend any time on the pitch trying to keep up with shadows, but in fairness to the lad that's what he did in his first season and he still managed to bag a few goals.

Still think that in terms of workrate and skill with the ball, young Alonso could be an option

We might need him at left back as Robbo is one booking away from a 2 game ban that would include the semi final if it fell in the next two games!

[hisroyalgingerness]

feck it, 4-1-5 total football

[Wandering Willy]

We might need him at left back as Robbo is one booking away from a 2 game ban that would include the semi final if it fell in the next two games!

Where did you get this from? I thought he was on 7 yellows.

Also, anyone know when the amnesty is - I has heard somewhere it was the 2nd Sunday in April.

[lovethesmellofnapalm]

Tuncay run the show against us at the Britannia- they'll miss him more than we will miss Holden

[Montreal Wanderer]

We might need him at left back as Robbo is one booking away from a 2 game ban that would include the semi final if it fell in the next two games!

Where did you get this from? I thought he was on 7 yellows.

Also, anyone know when the amnesty is - I has heard somewhere it was the 2nd Sunday in April.

According to the official statistics Robinson only has five yellows, serving a ban in January (Liverpool).