Question about a fan takeover

[Bruce Rioja]

Its all hazy recollections, but I can't ever recall Deano coming across as a really sharp, businessman type chappy. I know he may be only a frontman, but even those have to have a bit about them don't they.

Am I doing him a dis-service or just being a bit naive about the qualifications ?

I have to say, if a consortium were being led by Gudni Bergsson and/or Youri Djorkaeff then I'd feel a whole lot better about it.

[boltonboris]

Its all hazy recollections, but I can't ever recall Deano coming across as a really sharp, businessman type chappy. I know he may be only a frontman, but even those have to have a bit about them don't they.

Am I doing him a dis-service or just being a bit naive about the qualifications ?

He's just the fixer who's making the intro's

His company only has shareholder funds of a few grand and it's purely a 'consultancy' He'll have no part whatsoever in the takeover other than getting a commission for getting X to meet with Y

[midlands exile]

Now if you take into account potential tax savings...:

Year Debt Interest@5% Actual_Loss Annual_Loss Corp_Tax_Saving@20% of Annual Losses
2003 £20.00 £1.00 £5.00 £6.00 £1.20
2004 £26.00 £1.30 £5.00 £6.30 £1.26
2005 £32.30 £1.62 £5.00 £6.62 £1.32
2006 £38.92 £1.95 £10.00 £11.95 £2.39
2007 £50.86 £2.54 £10.00 £12.54 £2.51
2008 £63.40 £3.17 £10.00 £13.17 £2.63
2009 £76.57 £3.83 £10.00 £13.83 £2.77
2010 £90.40 £4.52 £10.00 £14.52 £2.90
2011 £104.92 £5.25 £10.00 £15.25 £3.05
2012 £120.17 £6.01 £10.00 £16.01 £3.20
2013 £136.18 £6.81 £10.00 £16.81 £3.36
2014 £152.99 £7.65 £10.00 £17.65 £3.53
2015 £170.64 £8.53 £10.00 £18.53 £3.71

Total Interest £54.17
Total Actual Loss £135.00 (inc original £20 debt)
Total Corp Tax Saving (if owner had a group of businesses that could offset the annual losses against) £33.83
Inheritance Tax Saving (@36% of interest in overseas country, reduced rate as the owner is charitable) £19.50

Overall £27.50 net loss

Again, this is all assuming 5% interest on loans. In this instance a £30 asking price would wipe out the losses with a few quid spare for a party. This is in no way meant to reflect any actual real-life business, but is merely an example of how things might not always look as they seem.

Massive apologies for the formatting screwing up, pasting in from Excel didn't work too well.

Isn't that still far better than having it sat there being taxed?

I would assume your "losses" (ie taxes) would be a hell of a lot more than £27.50?

Not sure what you're saying there, do you mean there would be additional benefits to having tons of money swirling around? Quite possibly, but you'd probably need to be a self made millionaire to figure that out (or a portly accountant).

Thinking about my calculations earlier, I may have double counted the interest. However, if the hypothetical owner was to "write off" the best part of £140 (the final "debt" minus sale revenue), that would be worth a tidy chunk in itself. If anyone can correct me, please do.

[Riviman]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footba ... Holdsworth" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Star reporting that Amir Khan could be involved in the takeover bid.So that'll be spot on then!!!

[Worthy4England]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/footba ... Holdsworth

Star reporting that Amir Khan could be involved in the takeover bid.So that'll be spot on then!!!

No wonder Garty's ill - that story says he's going to pay off the Club's debts.

[Hoboh]

Khan will be boxing at the stadium not investing.
Don't know about anyone else but not happy with the look of this mob trying to take over, Dean Holdsworth, fcuk off!

[BWFC_Insane]

Khan will be boxing at the stadium not investing.
Don't know about anyone else but not happy with the look of this mob trying to take over, Dean Holdsworth, fcuk off!

How can you be happy or unhappy? You don't even know who they are. Holdsworth is a front man, brokering a deal. It isn't his cash.

Though from the sounds of it, there isn't any real money so doubt it will happen!

[Bruce Rioja]

Khan will be boxing at the stadium not investing.
Don't know about anyone else but not happy with the look of this mob trying to take over, Dean Holdsworth, fcuk off!

So you'd be happy just to let things follow on in their current direction would you, Hoboh?

[Peter Thompson]

I personally don't care who's behind the new Holdsworth led investors I'm 100% behind it - whoever is or are the major investor or investors won't be doing so to waste their money, they will have both a short and long term plan / strategy of some sort and will want to see the club improve and the value of the club improve and will therefore have to provide more funding in the playing squad that ED currently is.

ED has pulled the plug and is putting nothing else in, so whoever it is must be seen as an improvement because unless we get new owners asap we will continue to drop like a stone.

And for the record I wouldn't mind Dean Holdsworth as chairman

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Venkys...

[BWFC_Insane]

I personally don't care who's behind the new Holdsworth led investors I'm 100% behind it - whoever is or are the major investor or investors won't be doing so to waste their money, they will have both a short and long term plan / strategy of some sort and will want to see the club improve and the value of the club improve and will therefore have to provide more funding in the playing squad that ED currently is.

ED has pulled the plug and is putting nothing else in, so whoever it is must be seen as an improvement because unless we get new owners asap we will continue to drop like a stone.

And for the record I wouldn't mind Dean Holdsworth as chairman

Bizarre statement. You don't care who is behind it? What if they have no cash? Or are asset strippers? Or are mentalists who want to call us "little Man Utd" and make us play in red.

Of course it matters. It is as odd as Hoboh proclaiming he doesn't like the sound of a group of people we don't even know exist, let alone anything about.

Holdsworth is just a broker. He isn't likely bringing anything else to the table.

[Peter Thompson]

BWFCI its my opinion - so get off your fcuking high horse once in your life...

My point is that if we continue with the current strategy / ownership - i.e. dropping like a stone without a pot to piss in we will be relegated and continue to drop season after season (in my opinion) - therefore whichever investor or investors ED feels comfortable in selling the club to will do for me and I repeat means that it doesn't matter who they are.

I also never said anything about Holdsworth apart from that I'd be ok with him being chairman.

[BWFC_Insane]

BWFCI its my opinion - so get off your fcuking high horse once in your life...

My point is that if we continue with the current strategy / ownership - i.e. dropping like a stone without a pot to piss in we will be relegated and continue to drop season after season (in my opinion) - therefore whichever investor or investors ED feels comfortable in selling the club to will do for me and I repeat means that it doesn't matter who they are.

I also never said anything about Holdsworth apart from that I'd be ok with him being chairman.

But you do care then. Because by default you're asking for someone who can provide investment in the team. And there is no certainty any new owner will be able to do that. That was my point, simply that of course you care.

Things are bad right now of that there is no doubt. And if your point is so long as a new owner makes them better you don't care and I'd agree there. But as we've seen with plenty of other clubs takeovers often make things even worse.

[Hoboh]

Khan will be boxing at the stadium not investing.
Don't know about anyone else but not happy with the look of this mob trying to take over, Dean Holdsworth, fcuk off!

So you'd be happy just to let things follow on in their current direction would you, Hoboh?

For once, I really have no idea.
I fail to see how the club in its current plight would be attractive to anyone, personally if I was a billionaire not needing any money I'd at least want the club trading around 'break even' with some modicum of on field success and both look a pipedream.
I really don't know, the one dream I always have had was to watch the whites win the FA cup at Wembley in my life time, I doubt it ever will happen.

[BWFC_Insane]

Khan will be boxing at the stadium not investing.
Don't know about anyone else but not happy with the look of this mob trying to take over, Dean Holdsworth, fcuk off!

So you'd be happy just to let things follow on in their current direction would you, Hoboh?

For once, I really have no idea.
I fail to see how the club in its current plight would be attractive to anyone, personally if I was a billionaire not needing any money I'd at least want the club trading around 'break even' with some modicum of on field success and both look a pipedream.
I really don't know, the one dream I always have had was to watch the whites win the FA cup at Wembley in my life time, I doubt it ever will happen.

See I am sadly in agreement here. Looking at the information we have, it will take a small fortune of anyone's money to lift us back to competing for the riches of the top flight.

Barring a Bolton fan with hundreds of millions to chuck in (and plenty to go spare too), I'm struggling to see how we are attractive to any owner right now. The asking price for the club is bound to be going down all the time which surely means any smart investor will just wait it out and buy as cheaply as possible.

[TANGODANCER]

So, the way I'm reading this is that our once proud town club is slowly dying a death weekly, broke and friendless, the chairman has had a stroke and the owner (who some might be forgetting has poured a shed load of his own money in to try and save us) is at a point when he cannot feasibly put any more funds in. Enter, talk of a consotium coming in with a view to saving the club's live....and we can afford to be picking and choosing what we want or dont? Get real folks (some).

Is that it? See, as a kid, I used to go round shop windows at Christmas time choosing all the things I wanted (fully aware I wasn't going to get them) but so glad and grateful that on the morn I would be getting something at least. If Count Dracula, Victor Frankenstein, Doctor Jekkyl and Mr Hyde stepped up and saved Bolton Wanderers I sure wouldn't be asking for their C.V's. Bring em on, what do we really have to lose?

[thebish]

Khan will be boxing at the stadium not investing.
Don't know about anyone else but not happy with the look of this mob trying to take over, Dean Holdsworth, fcuk off!

So you'd be happy just to let things follow on in their current direction would you, Hoboh?

I reckon it's a secret kabal of terrorist rufugee asylum-seekers trying to come over here and steal our game... they'll make all the men play in burkhas... be vigilant!

[BWFC_Insane]

So, the way I'm reading this is that our once proud town club is slowly dying a death weekly, broke and friendless, the chairman has had a stroke and the owner (who some might be forgetting has poured a shed load of his own money in to try and save us) is at a point when he cannot feasibly put any more funds in. Enter, talk of a consotium coming in with a view to saving the club's live....and we can afford to be picking and choosing what we want or dont? Get real folks (some).

Is that it? See, as a kid, I used to go round shop windows at Christmas time choosing all the things I wanted (fully aware I wasn't going to get them) but so glad and grateful that on the morn I would be getting something at least. If Count Dracula, Victor Frankenstein, Doctor Jekkyl and Mr Hyde stepped up and saved Bolton Wanderers I sure wouldn't be asking for their C.V's. Bring em on, what do we really have to lose?

It isn't about being picky or choosy. Just that a new buyer, could potentially dissolve the club and build a supermarket. Or they could send us into administration or sell off the assets or a whole list of things.

The idea that any new buyer will automatically be better than the admittedly current dire situation isn't accurate.

We need fresh money and a safe pair of hands and must hope that is what we get. But looking around the various clubs, it shows that isn't always the case with takeovers and we saying "anyone would be better than how it is now" isn't accurate.

[Prufrock]

Aye, Venkys, Carson Yeung, Vincent Tan (yes he got them promoted, but was that worth playing in red? and now he's stopped), anyone who has owned Leeds in the last 15 years, Blackpool. Plenty to go wrong.

Also, I'm not sure there is any evidence ED can't feasibly put any more in. As folk have pointed out, it's unlikely he got to that first 100m and thought, "that's me folks". What is clear is that he's decided he isn't. Which he's entitled to do, but I think folk are also entitled to say, "Cheers for the good times, but this horror-show also happened on your watch, so we'd appreciate it if you fixed that before you went". Hopefully appointing Birch is the first big step in doing that. It's clear that ED has wanted to sell for ages, but to the right buyer. Now it's clear he's desperate to sell, hopefully he still makes sure it's someone proper.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

We have to do due diligence. And for those who would say anything is better than the incumbent, some names:

Craig Whyte
George Reynolds
John Batchelor
Alex Hamilton
Stuart Lovering
Ken Richardson

Plenty more under that last link, too