All the young Dudes.. Home to Aston Villa Under 21's.Tues 8th Oct 17-45.

[officer_dibble]

It did look like that with some of the players last night.

I want a special shout to our corner taking last night. It really was as bad as I’ve ever seen it. Collins had 3 in the first half alone that all went at ground/knee height to their man at the front post. We were pretty handy last season from corners - what’s happened?

[Worthy4England]

The competition is daft, and it would be a mad game to change your mind on

But... I'm a give managers time guy, and if he left tomorrow I still think he'd have done a good job overall. But Huddersfield is where I got off, and nothing has changed my mind since. Saturday and today...I mean it's not happening is it. So you're just wasting time.

Slowly turning to this way of thinking myself. It's sad. I mean, the players tonight were awful, and I could hear Evatt at the side barking instructions that just weren't being followed. But that's on him too. The buck stops with him.

He's built a legacy here, and I'd love to see us turn it around this season. I'd love to see Evatt stick two fingers up at the doubters, recover the defensive solidity of two years ago and marry it to last season's free-scoring exploits. But the longer this apathy, this pedestrian and uninspiring approach goes on, the more that legacy gets damaged.

Obviously we have to be binary internet, so you're either for or against. I think for Evatt it's a very fine line call and we absolutely could do worse. For me the "keep" points are:

Won two pots L2 and The other one
Got us scoring - I'm not hugely impressed with 7 & 8 nils, unless they against a team that should be competitive with us, but plenty of occasions where we don't punish someone we should.
He's assembled a squad that up until recently has felt quite together, with no real odd-ball favourites that leave you wondering why they've crossed the whitewash each week.
Prior to this season so far, improved over time
Broadly, I suspect we've done pretty well on attendances for Bolton in L1
Up until Oxford, no doubt he was committed to the cause
We don't just punt it.

Then I look at the against column

Possession football/Brand Evatt. Not really for me. Large amounts of unentertaining possession interjected with some goals, often makes for a boring mismatch. But I'll pretty much always take a win over the style.

Learning something other than Plan A, seems to be a bit of a mental battle and not natural. For me, we've just seen a couple of large wins, mainly not doing plan A, but the last couple of games, you can see it coming back. And not to great effect in terms of results.

To get out of this division (unless you manage a run away) is going to be a fine line. Saying well it was a near miss will come with the territory. I reckon Barnsley after the play-offs at ours would be bemoaning a "near miss."

I think Brand Evatt isn't particularly tolerant to less than perfect signings in some key areas (mainly WBs) and we've struggled to land 2 with sufficient quality.

If I weighted those, I'm probably just "keep." But the missing ones are "do I think he's learned enough from Oxford to be the difference when it's needed, can we get the main plan working to be top 2, is he cunning enough to get a turn out from the team when Plan A is struggling, does he understand defending (pretty sure he was a defender )"

All those last ones, I'm a doubter, with some reason to be. If he turns it round and gets us promoted, I'll gladley apologise for me doubts.

[dave the minion]

I see my lad's team playing on almost full-sized pitches and some of them (13-14 year olds) can put beautiful corners right into the middle of the box, so it can't be the ability of our players that causes so many to fail.

Wonder if they are instructed/coached to aim to just clear the front man or try to get a near post flick on, which is why so many of them drop just short ???

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Games in this shower of a tournament are not going to make or break the manager, the team, or the board, but it does reinforce the fact that we are going to struggle to get consistently good performances and results out of this set of players. It's hard to see an outcome where it all falls together and we go on a decent run. I think too many people have lost faith in Evatt and by the sounds of it, the body language from some players might make it seem like some of them have, too.

Define 'we'. Like you, I am beginning to suspect some players have lost their belief in the manager – or, to flip that, the manager can no longer get the players working for him.

One of the worst things about Saturday was when Evatt said he and his coaches were screaming at the players to mark Shipley. None of them did. That's a failure of prep but also of communication and, frankly, management.

And now – amid frightening words from our touchline reporter of players ignoring him – he has (perhaps understandably, perhaps unwisely) lambasted the players he assembled. Maybe somewhere Matt Craddock's chuckling to himself. Let's not forget Evatt was a centre-back, Atherton a right-back and Crainey a left-back, yet we can't defend to save our mother's honour. If we also only score intermittently, that's not a recipe for promotion.

The Pizza Cup barely matters but the league does and we're 13th, which was our finishing position in the final season under Phil Neal - a comparator gaining credence by the week. What's worse is that our home fans have suffered a 0-0, a 0-2 and a 0-4, then a 5-2 which offered respite (but still two conceded...), then a 2-2 which didn't feel nearly as good as coming from two goals down should, and now this humiliation.

I said after Huddersfield that if we weren't going to pot him, he had to win every game bar Arsenal in a very winnable run. He's won 3 out of 6 and now we can't even beat a much-weakened team of children.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Obviously we have to be binary internet, so you're either for or against. I think for Evatt it's a very fine line call and we absolutely could do worse. For me the "keep" points are:

Won two pots L2 and The other one
Got us scoring - I'm not hugely impressed with 7 & 8 nils, unless they against a team that should be competitive with us, but plenty of occasions where we don't punish someone we should.
He's assembled a squad that up until recently has felt quite together, with no real odd-ball favourites that leave you wondering why they've crossed the whitewash each week.
Prior to this season so far, improved over time
Broadly, I suspect we've done pretty well on attendances for Bolton in L1
Up until Oxford, no doubt he was committed to the cause
We don't just punt it.

Then I look at the against column

Possession football/Brand Evatt. Not really for me. Large amounts of unentertaining possession interjected with some goals, often makes for a boring mismatch. But I'll pretty much always take a win over the style.

Learning something other than Plan A, seems to be a bit of a mental battle and not natural. For me, we've just seen a couple of large wins, mainly not doing plan A, but the last couple of games, you can see it coming back. And not to great effect in terms of results.

To get out of this division (unless you manage a run away) is going to be a fine line. Saying well it was a near miss will come with the territory. I reckon Barnsley after the play-offs at ours would be bemoaning a "near miss."

I think Brand Evatt isn't particularly tolerant to less than perfect signings in some key areas (mainly WBs) and we've struggled to land 2 with sufficient quality.

If I weighted those, I'm probably just "keep." But the missing ones are "do I think he's learned enough from Oxford to be the difference when it's needed, can we get the main plan working to be top 2, is he cunning enough to get a turn out from the team when Plan A is struggling, does he understand defending (pretty sure he was a defender )"

All those last ones, I'm a doubter, with some reason to be. If he turns it round and gets us promoted, I'll gladley apologise for me doubts.

This seems to me an entirely fair assessment. You and I disagree over our enjoyment of Evattball, and that's fine, but I respect what you've laid out there. Unlike you, I'm not now "keep" – I just think (as Boris hints) that it's just all too broken) – but I understand why people are.

[officer_dibble]

One of the worst things about Saturday was when Evatt said he and his coaches were screaming at the players to mark Shipley. None of them did. That's a failure of prep but also of communication and, frankly, management.

And the guys celebration as well - he ran over to our bench and can be seen shouting “why don’t you fecking pick me up then?”. Being mocked by a Shrewsbury player !

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

One of the worst things about Saturday was when Evatt said he and his coaches were screaming at the players to mark Shipley. None of them did. That's a failure of prep but also of communication and, frankly, management.

And the guys celebration as well - he ran over to our bench and can be seen shouting “why don’t you fecking pick me up then?”. Being mocked by a Shrewsbury player !

Yes! I found it notable that he did that. Indeed I wondered whether there's a bit of history there - we were linked with Shipley when his Cov contract was lapsing in 2022. We signed Sadlier and Dempsey instead and I wonder whether Shipley still feels overlooked - or even if initial talks didn't go well.

[irie Cee Bee]

Where have all our dribblers gone? Dapa, Maghoma, Ameobi, Ocacha? Is there no place for them in Evatts system..... this team is crying out for creative players who can go past players. Currently only Tutu in the squad seems to be able to do this and he is injured. Is it that Evatt feels these types disrupt his system hence he doesnt want them? Dont dribble...pass the ball...sidewase, backward... Keep it!!! Dont lose it!!!. The 2nd half to be honest we looked a very boring team.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Where have all our dribblers gone? Dapa, Maghoma, Ameobi, Ocacha? Is there no place for them in Evatts system..... this team is crying out for creative players who can go past players. Currently only Tutu in the squad seems to be able to do this and he is injured. Is it that Evatt feels these types disrupt his system hence he doesnt want them? Dont dribble...pass the ball...sidewase, backward... Keep it!!! Dont lose it!!!. The 2nd half to be honest we looked a very boring team.

To be fair, none of the five players you mention were here simultaneously; one is here but injured, one only left in summer. Not many teams have several dribblers.

But yeah, sometimes those lads are gamechangers. I get it, and so does Evatt - who signed the majority of the above-named, and specified that Maghoma's ability to get past players added something to us.

I don't think it's fair to say he'd rather we pass backwards than dribble. But I do now wonder whether he's howling unheard into the wind - with the players, let alone the fans.

[Worthy4England]

This seems to me an entirely fair assessment. You and I disagree over our enjoyment of Evattball, and that's fine, but I respect what you've laid out there. Unlike you, I'm not now "keep" – I just think (as Boris hints) that it's just all too broken) – but I understand why people are.

Re-read my outpouring and can see how you might conclude I'm still in the "keep" camp. My bad. I'm not. Think summer was the right time for me, but it's not an absolute no brainer like, say, Megson or OC. I can understand why the Board might be wrestling with it, without any notion of whether they actually are. I doubt any of them have had to directly deal with this in a football context.

[officer_dibble]

Most telling contribution was our resident flag bearer who could probably hear a lot more goven the attendance last night. Good insight from the trenches! Once players start ignoring instructions the writings on the wall isn’t it?

It may well have been nobody from the board were there last night so he may have gotten away with it!

He’s come out and criticised squad players for not showing enough but other than Lolos and the two wingbacks all those outfielders that started are first teamers. And I’m a bit gutted about the fall of Randell - man of the match in our only play off victory last year.

[TANGODANCER]

In a nutshell: Ball in net. Method unimportant. All the questions would disappear if that one problem were addressed. Nobody would care if Mary Poppins or Mr Bean were our manager if we won games.

[Bertie Wooster]

This is not specific to last night as I dislike the competition and its a distraction and it must be hard getting up for a game in an empty stadium in front of 300/400 people, however Collins attitude is shocking, really poor. He's a decent player at this level and when he's on it is an asset - however so far this season he looks like he doesn't want to be here, he is so half hearted he hasn't yet got out of 1st gear yet this season apart from his Arsenal goal.

I wasn't aware that he had an attitude problem prior to signing. I know that people will deny it but it is looking like 1 or 2 players just aren't listening to Evatt anymore or are a little disgruntled about some things going on behind the scenes ?

It's quite telling that even the ultra loyal truewhite is starting to become disgruntled.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Last night managed to reinforce every criticism and negativity since January. Not getting worked up over the Pizza Cup and it seems neither did the players. There is a real malaise about the club, and the longer it continues the harder it will be to climb out of it.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Last night managed to reinforce every criticism and negativity since January. Not getting worked up over the Pizza Cup and it seems neither did the players. There is a real malaise about the club, and the longer it continues the harder it will be to climb out of it.

This is the central problem, and why I'm more twist than stick. A new manager would have goodwill for a while; but every single non-win drags Project Evatt back into the maelstrom. As I say, I'm not even sure promotion (esp. via the playoffs) would ease those worries if we started next season badly.

I'd be sounding out Steven Schumacher - who last week said “I haven't come out of it thinking I need a break. I feel as though if anything, it's given me a little bit more fuel, a bit more fire in my belly" - today.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Last night managed to reinforce every criticism and negativity since January. Not getting worked up over the Pizza Cup and it seems neither did the players. There is a real malaise about the club, and the longer it continues the harder it will be to climb out of it.

This is the central problem, and why I'm more twist than stick. A new manager would have goodwill for a while; but every single non-win drags Project Evatt back into the maelstrom. As I say, I'm not even sure promotion (esp. via the playoffs) would ease those worries if we started next season badly.

I'd be sounding out Steven Schumacher - who last week said “I haven't come out of it thinking I need a break. I feel as though if anything, it's given me a little bit more fuel, a bit more fire in my belly" - today.

Exactly where I am. I don't think he can do anything now to win back the belief of a substantial number of fans, let alone those that didn't have any in the first place. The longer it goes on it damages his career too. Stevie S would do for me if he is willing.

[BWFC_Insane]

You can think Evatt has done a good job and is a good manager.

You can as I do think he’s done a good job up to the last few seasons then an ok one then last season and this a poor one, and is not a great manager overall.

But regardless I don’t think anyone can be watching us this season and not think it’s gone stale and that the club and team are crying out for a fresh voice with fresh ideas….surely?

[Bertie Wooster]

But regardless I don’t think anyone can be watching us this season and not think it’s gone stale and that the club and team are crying out for a fresh voice with fresh ideas….surely?

I think that's becoming the general consensus even amongst previous Evatt backers. Even I'm surprised at some of the negative feedback from some Evatt backers following a meaningless game last night.

It was a nothing game almost a friendly, however I think that it was the overall attitude, application and the can't be arsed manner of a few players that have tipped a few more into the get rid ASAP camp. It's almost like the players are not listening to the management instructions (same with the marking at corners v Shrewsbury), and just doing what the like. Collins & Thomason's penalties last night just summed it up for me, just so casual.

[jimbo]

Last night would have been acceptable had we been flying in the league. No one would have given a monkey’s about it.

As it is, we’re looking at last night hoping to see signs of progress which just aren’t there. I was just Evatt in post Wembley, but I now want him gone. Promotion is the aim this season and he’s certainly not getting us there. I’d rather for us to change now, give a new manager time to build momentum, and 2 transfer windows before being able to have another crack next season. The other scenario is he stays and fan animosity ramping up week by week. Since Sharon has come in the club and fans have been as united as I can remember. The longer he stays, the more that relationship deteriorates and it’s hard to get back.

[officer_dibble]

Put yourself in Collins shoes - he was signed from a club who were playing him sporadically on the left of a front three, it wasn’t working out despite him being young player of the year or whatever the season before.

We sign him, he does well and we are all looking forward to him form a partnership with Charles. Starts the season in a front 3 in a shit formation. We go back to a front two and he’s benched but gets to start shit cup games. Scores a couple but isn’t getting the game time in the league in a front two with Charles which was probably what he expected he would get at the end of last season.