Nat Lofthouse statue

[John Pilkington]

I've now virtually finished the maquette (small scale model) that I said I was intending to make with the intention of submitting it to BWFC. I've taken some photos of it which can be seen in a slideshow here: http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m154 ... =slideshow
and I've attached one photo of a front view below.

For this maquette I've selected a pose which would work on a raised plinth where Nat would normally be seen from below. I've no idea what BWFC might have in mind for the commemorative statue, so all I want to do is produce some work which will show what I am capable of producing. The maquette is just 58cms high and is made in plasticine (yes, the same stuff that your kids play with, so you can see that they now should be able to make better models than Wallace and Grommit! ) This maquette could be used to produce a much larger scale statue if required in which considerably more detail could be produced than plasticine will hold.

As previously discussed in this thread, it would be great to produce a terrific commemorative statue of Nat and if I were granted the commission, I would like to produce something much more than this maquette, but I don't want to reveal my ideas at this stage.

Please feel free to offer your CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms of my work.

It would be wonderful if we won the FA Cup this year so that a statue of Nat holding the Cup would be fitting! Come on Kev and the lads! Do it!

[truewhite15]

I'm no expert, but I think that looks pretty damn good.

[CAPSLOCK]

I don't think you've got the face right

Whispers coming from the club seem to be there still isn't a will (from the family) for a statue

[TANGODANCER]

A fine attempt John, but, with all due respect and in no way meant to offend, it just isn't Nat. Shoulders a bit on the narow side, ears too prominent and the face well, it's too old to be honest. Nat was a pit lad, lean, sturdy and all muscle, built like a corporation flagstone, strong and a real athlete. He was five feet nine tall and about twelve and a half stone in weight and had plenty pace. Please don't be put off by this, but I am talking from having seen him quite a bit in my younger years.

[John Pilkington]

A fine attempt John, but, with all due respect and in no way meant to offend, it just isn't Nat. Shoulders a bit on the narow side, ears too prominent and the face well, it's too old to be honest. Nat was a pit lad, lean, sturdy and all muscle, built like a corporation flagstone, strong and a real athlete. He was five feet nine tall and about twelve and a half stone in weight and had plenty pace. Please don't be put off by this, but I am talking from having seen him quite a bit in my younger years.

Thanks for your comments (I genuinely mean that). The reason why I've posted photos is to get honest criticism so I accept your opinion without any problem.

As you can imagine, I've spent a fair amount of time trying to find some decent photos of Nat from the internet, and to be honest, they are all of small size and of low resolution so what I've had to work from has been far from ideal. I'm sure that there are much better photos in commercial photographic libraries available which I'd want to use for a statue. Likewise, I've spent a LOT of time looking at photos of Nat whilst doing this maquette and also making a bust of Nat (photos in a much earlier posting in this thread see: http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j40 ... 1296673592) so I'm now very familiar with his facial features and physique and his face changed quite a lot during his playing days as he matured. I readily accept that in my maquette his face is on the "older" side, but please bear in mind that the work has been done in plasticine (which doesn't hold fine detail) and the face is just 6cms from chin to hairline, getting a perfect likeness at this scale in plasticine is well-nigh impossible. A maquette is considered to be the sculptural equivalent of a "sketch" and not a final work of art in itself.

Take a look at various views of photos of Nat and you'll see that he had unusual shaped ears which had a tendency to stick out, particularly in the lower half, and in my maquette, the plasticine ears can easily be pushed inwards. Thanks for pointing that out. As for his shoulder width: I've measured all the essential sizes and distances of various body measurements to ensure that the work is in proportion and the shoulders are the correct width. Nat didn't have the physique of, say, Kevin Davies.

As a sculptor, I know that it is impossible to produce a piece of portrait work that universally pleases all because everyone looking at your work has slightly different mental images of people they know and if you fail to capture their particular image, the artist has missed the mark for them. What I'm trying to do is to make as few "mistakes" as possible in order to please as many people as possible. Therefore I welcome all comments. Thanks for your input Tangodancer; I'll incorporate your opinions into the work.

[Montreal Wanderer]

I don't think you've got the face right

Whispers coming from the club seem to be there still isn't a will (from the family) for a statue

If the whispers are true, that seems a pity. Of course they should have the final say, but in a smaller way Nat belonged to all of us.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I think it's great, apart from the face which I agree isn't QUITE there, but it's not far off.

[Prufrock]

I think it's great, apart from the face which I agree isn't QUITE there, but it's not far off.

Aye, compared to some of the proper terrible ones I've seen I think it's good. Not necessarily the pose I'd pick or whatever but at least it is defo recognisably him! At that scale a very decent effort.

[Zulus Thousand of em]

It's good John. Your comments re the maquette and the limitations of plasticine should be taken into account. I hope that the family decide that they want a statue (although it should not be solely up to them, in my opinion) and I hope you get the commission.

I'd still have a football (with a lace!) or the FA Cup in there somewhere!

[TKIZ!]

Not a bad attempt that, still think Nat raising the FA Cup would make for a better statue, just me opinion like

[BL3]

Fair play for taking the initiative but it looks nothing like him at the moment and whilst i realise that there are certain limitations with the actual pose it should be much more dynamic than that if you're going to capture the essence of the man, after all he was an all-action player! P.S. He should be sporting the '58 FA Cup final badge on his shirt:

[thebish]

that's one of the most unconvincing cut and paste photoshop attempts I have seen for a while!

[Armchair Wanderer]

His boots don't even look orange from that photo!

[John Pilkington]

Thanks to everyone for your comments, particularly the negative ones!

It's clear that everyone wants to see more effort put into the facial likeness, (even into a small scale maquette), which I can do. Obviously a finished full-sized statue demands nothing less and considerably more work would go into a such a commission than into a speculative maquette like mine.

It's also clear from this thread, that the greatest number of people would be satisfied if the pose was of Nat holding the FA Cup.

Does anyone have a BWFC football strip from the 1958 Cup Final that they can photograph for me? Did Nat wear Puma Atom football boots in that match, if not, what were they?

[TANGODANCER]

Not sure exactly what the pros' wore John,( possibly bit more stream-lined) but this type of thing came out around 1960. Nat didn't play for too long after that and earlier boots were more like pit-clogs than football boots.

[CAPSLOCK]

Thanks to everyone for your comments, particularly the negative ones!

It's clear that everyone wants to see more effort put into the facial likeness, (even into a small scale maquette), which I can do. Obviously a finished full-sized statue demands nothing less and considerably more work would go into a such a commission than into a speculative maquette like mine.

It's also clear from this thread, that the greatest number of people would be satisfied if the pose was of Nat holding the FA Cup.

Does anyone have a BWFC football strip from the 1958 Cup Final that they can photograph for me? Did Nat wear Puma Atom football boots in that match, if not, what were they?

I think the 58 shirt is available from TOFFS

There'll be an image on the site

[Gary the Enfield]

Thanks to everyone for your comments, particularly the negative ones!

It's clear that everyone wants to see more effort put into the facial likeness, (even into a small scale maquette), which I can do. Obviously a finished full-sized statue demands nothing less and considerably more work would go into a such a commission than into a speculative maquette like mine.

It's also clear from this thread, that the greatest number of people would be satisfied if the pose was of Nat holding the FA Cup.

Does anyone have a BWFC football strip from the 1958 Cup Final that they can photograph for me? Did Nat wear Puma Atom football boots in that match, if not, what were they?

I think the 58 shirt is available from TOFFS

There'll be an image on the site

[TANGODANCER]

Here's the badge detail:

[John Pilkington]

I've now put a bit more time into the maquette and here it is in the photo below. My arm appears to give you an indication of scale and you'll see the face is no bigger than my little finger.

I've also uploaded a series of photos taken all around the maquette which you can see here: http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m154 ... =slideshow" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For comparison, I've also put a photo in that lot of the Fred Dibnah bust (which was slightly bigger than life-size) I did for Bolton Museum in the clay stage, which shows the level of detail that I can get when working at a larger scale.

Please feel free to make further constructive criticism, it really does help!

[BL3]

Can you post a close-up of the head? To be honest that's really the most important part.

I found this photo which might be useful. You can zoom in for more detail by first clicking on the magnifying glass icon in the top right of the photo and then using the + button in the top left. You can then move around the photo by clicking and dragging the mouse:

http://picasaweb.google.com/10206197702 ... 1230922722" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;