Bolton v Stoke

[TANGODANCER]

Gee, we've got some real bundles of joy on here, by Jupiter.

[thebish]

That isn't true though, is it? They didn't beat us, the annihilated us, and confidence for the rest of the season was shit.

we did muster up the balls to beat Arsenal at home AFTER the stoke debacle, though, did we not?

[Prufrock]

Arsenal who themselves were on a shocking run, with no confidence. We've won three games since. Unless you are suggesting confidence post Stoke hasn't been shockingly low? In which case I assume you just mention the Arsenal game because it is fun to do so and coz GG will almost certainly see it . I can go along with that.

[DJBlu]

9 points from the next 3 games.

Crisis over.

Then we can get on with the season.



I have a dream ...

[thebish]

Arsenal who themselves were on a shocking run, with no confidence. We've won three games since. Unless you are suggesting confidence post Stoke hasn't been shockingly low? In which case I assume you just mention the Arsenal game because it is fun to do so and coz GG will almost certainly see it . I can go along with that.

no - merely to counteract the prevailing idea that we are necessarily paralysed and unable to win BECAUSE of that stoke game... unfortunately, i think it is far more serious than a couple of stoke-demons to be brushed aside...

[Prufrock]

I'm not sure anyone is arguing we are losing now directly because of the Stoke game. What seems fairly obvious is that the pre-semi-final confidence around the whole club was smashed to pieces. I don't think we have ever recovered from that, and that lack of confidence has never been shaken, and has spread into other areas nothing to do with the Stoke game. It has had a knock on effect. You can't really argue for instance that N'Gog, Eagles or Reo-Coker can be suffering from it, but what they are suffering from, particularly the first two, is coming into a new club where everybody is low, and not having the luxury of feeling your own way into it. I don't think the ones who played in that game are walking onto the pitch with the Stoke game in the front of their minds, but I do think confidence has never recovered, and that winning against Stoke would frame the whole thing nicely, give the whole place a big lift, restore confidence in a few that they are good players/managers/whatever, and for those reasons I don't think it is unreasonable to talk of banishing demons. Equally, it wouldn't suddenly mean everything were fine. It's a moot point though, coz we wont actually win!

[truewhite15]

Arsenal who themselves were on a shocking run, with no confidence. We've won three games since. Unless you are suggesting confidence post Stoke hasn't been shockingly low? In which case I assume you just mention the Arsenal game because it is fun to do so and coz GG will almost certainly see it . I can go along with that.

no - merely to counteract the prevailing idea that we are necessarily paralysed and unable to win BECAUSE of that stoke game... unfortunately, i think it is far more serious than a couple of stoke-demons to be brushed aside...

I think that Arsenal game was an immediate backlash, masking the deeper psychological scars of the Wembley debacle, much as a mortally wounded soldier on the battlefield often finds it within himself, and utilises the raw adrenaline to strike out powerfully at the next opponent he sees, before succumbing to his injuries.

[thebish]

I'm not sure anyone is arguing we are losing now directly because of the Stoke game. What seems fairly obvious is that the pre-semi-final confidence around the whole club was smashed to pieces. I don't think we have ever recovered from that, and that lack of confidence has never been shaken, and has spread into other areas nothing to do with the Stoke game. It has had a knock on effect. You can't really argue for instance that N'Gog, Eagles or Reo-Coker can be suffering from it, but what they are suffering from, particularly the first two, is coming into a new club where everybody is low, and not having the luxury of feeling your own way into it. I don't think the ones who played in that game are walking onto the pitch with the Stoke game in the front of their minds, but I do think confidence has never recovered, and that winning against Stoke would frame the whole thing nicely, give the whole place a big lift, restore confidence in a few that they are good players/managers/whatever, and for those reasons I don't think it is unreasonable to talk of banishing demons. Equally, it wouldn't suddenly mean everything were fine. It's a moot point though, coz we wont actually win!

I'm not really sold on the demons argument at all! I think that's just an excuse. We kicked off this season with a high confidence-boosting 4-0 win...

[Sponge]

Arsenal who themselves were on a shocking run, with no confidence. We've won three games since. Unless you are suggesting confidence post Stoke hasn't been shockingly low? In which case I assume you just mention the Arsenal game because it is fun to do so and coz GG will almost certainly see it . I can go along with that.

no - merely to counteract the prevailing idea that we are necessarily paralysed and unable to win BECAUSE of that stoke game... unfortunately, i think it is far more serious than a couple of stoke-demons to be brushed aside...

I think that Arsenal game was an immediate backlash, masking the deeper psychological scars of the Wembley debacle, much as a mortally wounded soldier on the battlefield often finds it within himself, and utilises the raw adrenaline to strike out powerfully at the next opponent he sees, before succumbing to his injuries.

[truewhite15]

Arsenal who themselves were on a shocking run, with no confidence. We've won three games since. Unless you are suggesting confidence post Stoke hasn't been shockingly low? In which case I assume you just mention the Arsenal game because it is fun to do so and coz GG will almost certainly see it . I can go along with that.

no - merely to counteract the prevailing idea that we are necessarily paralysed and unable to win BECAUSE of that stoke game... unfortunately, i think it is far more serious than a couple of stoke-demons to be brushed aside...

I think that Arsenal game was an immediate backlash, masking the deeper psychological scars of the Wembley debacle, much as a mortally wounded soldier on the battlefield often finds it within himself, and utilises the raw adrenaline to strike out powerfully at the next opponent he sees, before succumbing to his injuries.

Hey, I thought it was a good analogy...

[BWFC_Insane]

See I think the Stoke game exposed problems that were already there rather than being the catalyst for them.

I don't think beating them is some magic solution either.

We need to win for the three points but I don't believe it's any more or less pschologically than Swansea was for example!

[thebish]

See I think the Stoke game exposed problems that were already there rather than being the catalyst for them.

I don't think beating them is some magic solution either.

We need to win for the three points but I don't believe it's any more or less pschologically than Swansea was for example!

oh bollox - I appear to be in some kind of agreement with BWFCi

[Gravedigger]

By, gum, Bish that's a bloody turn up for the books. Don't think he sort of backpedalled into agreement to throw you off balance?

[Prufrock]

I'm not sure anyone is arguing we are losing now directly because of the Stoke game. What seems fairly obvious is that the pre-semi-final confidence around the whole club was smashed to pieces. I don't think we have ever recovered from that, and that lack of confidence has never been shaken, and has spread into other areas nothing to do with the Stoke game. It has had a knock on effect. You can't really argue for instance that N'Gog, Eagles or Reo-Coker can be suffering from it, but what they are suffering from, particularly the first two, is coming into a new club where everybody is low, and not having the luxury of feeling your own way into it. I don't think the ones who played in that game are walking onto the pitch with the Stoke game in the front of their minds, but I do think confidence has never recovered, and that winning against Stoke would frame the whole thing nicely, give the whole place a big lift, restore confidence in a few that they are good players/managers/whatever, and for those reasons I don't think it is unreasonable to talk of banishing demons. Equally, it wouldn't suddenly mean everything were fine. It's a moot point though, coz we wont actually win!

I'm not really sold on the demons argument at all! I think that's just an excuse. We kicked off this season with a high confidence-boosting 4-0 win...

Disagree. We certainly didn't look confident against QPR until we scored. And we've rarely looked confident since. You can win the odd game even when confidence is shot. I think they're a fragile set of tarts as as it is, and I don't think the atmosphere around the club has recovered since Stoke. I think psychologically beating Stoke would be a massive lift, would frame the debacle, and allow us to move on, far bigger than beating Wigan, or had we beaten Swansea. And massive for Coyle,who hasn't recovered. I still think there's an indirect, pervasive influence from that Stoke game around the whole place. We want catharsis!

[Wandering Willy]

Disagree. We certainly didn't look confident against QPR until we scored. And we've rarely looked confident since. You can win the odd game even when confidence is shot. I think they're a fragile set of tarts as as it is, and I don't think the atmosphere around the club has recovered since Stoke. I think psychologically beating Stoke would be a massive lift, would frame the debacle, and allow us to move on, far bigger than beating Wigan, or had we beaten Swansea. And massive for Coyle,who hasn't recovered. I still think there's an indirect, pervasive influence from that Stoke game around the whole place. We want catharsis!

Aye - it certainly wouldn't do us any harm.

[thebish]

Disagree. We certainly didn't look confident against QPR until we scored. And we've rarely looked confident since. You can win the odd game even when confidence is shot. I think they're a fragile set of tarts as as it is, and I don't think the atmosphere around the club has recovered since Stoke. I think psychologically beating Stoke would be a massive lift, would frame the debacle, and allow us to move on, far bigger than beating Wigan, or had we beaten Swansea. And massive for Coyle,who hasn't recovered. I still think there's an indirect, pervasive influence from that Stoke game around the whole place. We want catharsis!

cod armchair psycho-babble!

[Jokers in White]

We will see just how hard they have trained this week come full time sun, stoke's players should be knackered after the amount of travelling and games they will have played. Hope its raining because delap can't throw a wet ball!

[jimbo]

Just had a think about how effing jeffing terrible we are at defending any sort of set piece (well, defending full stop) and we have Stoke on Sunday. Could spell trouble. The most organised and well drilled team in the league against our rabble

[boltonboris]

We will see just how hard they have trained this week come full time sun, stoke's players should be knackered after the amount of travelling and games they will have played. Hope its raining because delap can't throw a wet ball!

If 4 players play for Stoke from tonights lineup, I'll be amazed. They've a big squad.

[Prufrock]

Disagree. We certainly didn't look confident against QPR until we scored. And we've rarely looked confident since. You can win the odd game even when confidence is shot. I think they're a fragile set of tarts as as it is, and I don't think the atmosphere around the club has recovered since Stoke. I think psychologically beating Stoke would be a massive lift, would frame the debacle, and allow us to move on, far bigger than beating Wigan, or had we beaten Swansea. And massive for Coyle,who hasn't recovered. I still think there's an indirect, pervasive influence from that Stoke game around the whole place. We want catharsis!

cod armchair psycho-babble!

Dr Melfi disagrees.