. . . and take Gartside with you, too.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

13 different teams have won the top flight in Japan in the last 30 years. It neither makes it exciting or competitive.

[Prufrock]

Until last year, when was the last time Man City won it? Within the last decade Chelsea won it for the first time in about 50 years. Our league could be won by somebody who never has before, if they can find the right foreign billionaire.

Does that make it competitive? Billionaires buying success? Do you think the English top flight is a competitive, open, interesting league?

Twente nearly went bust 10 years ago. They're now owned by Joop Munsterman, who'll never have to busk for change but certainly isn't in the Chelsea/City stratosphere. They haven't spent lavishly, but they've been well managed (on and off the pitch) and picked up their first ever national title. I just think that's far more interesting than being bankrolled by a mining billionaire, that's all.

I didn't say it made it competitive, just that I could see somebody winning it for the first time .

I don't think it is particularly competitive, but it is better than it was in the nineties, in terms of actually winning the thing anyway.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

So you don't think their top flight is more likely than ours to be won by a team that's never won it before?

This year? No.

Any year, generally, but thanks anyway. I'll ask another: when do you think the English top flight will next be won by a team that hasn't won it before? Or, to narrow it down, anyone who isn't Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, even Liverpool? I think it will be a very long time. And I dislike that: it makes things very boring indeed.

I have no idea! But I don't think it's obviously likely to be before a team outside of Ajax, PSV, Feyenoord, Twente or AZ wins the Eredivisie. Five years ago, did it seem likely that Man City would be winning the title any time soon?

And as a side issue, I deplore the idea that a league being unpredictable is evidence of low quality.

I'll go further than that and say that unpredictability and 'competitiveness' are absolutely no indicator as to quality on their own whatsoever. That was actually my main point.

Ah, I see. I would agree that you can have a competitive league of any quality: that competition in itself does not guarantee brilliance. But it does at least threaten interest, which the Premier League procession has lacked for far too long.

Ok, so now we're talking about 'interest', which is something totally different and even harder to pin down.

Odd discussion, really.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The original point:

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

...by which I meant I find the Eredivisie (and our Championship) much less predictable and therefore interesting than our much-lauded but essentially oligopolised top flight, which very quickly becomes a procession of the usual suspects. That's all.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

The original point:

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

...by which I meant I find the Eredivisie (and our Championship) much less predictable and therefore interesting than our much-lauded but essentially oligopolised top flight, which very quickly becomes a procession of the usual suspects. That's all.

That's very interesting.

But the real original point was what the quality is like in some of the smaller European leagues, because that is relevant when it comes to assigning weight to people's experience managing in those leagues.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The original point:

I lived in the Netherlands for a year and saw a fair bit of Eredivisie football. To be honest, Championship football is exactly what I'd liken it to.

Yep - last year six teams went into the last month with a chance of winning the title. Our top flight ironed out that sort of thing years ago...

...by which I meant I find the Eredivisie (and our Championship) much less predictable and therefore interesting than our much-lauded but essentially oligopolised top flight, which very quickly becomes a procession of the usual suspects. That's all.

That's very interesting. But the real original point was what the quality is like in some of the smaller European leagues, because that is relevant when it comes to assigning weight to people's experience managing in those leagues.

Ah. Well in that case, places like Holland and Norway are definitely feeder leagues for the Premier, a bit like the Championship... which was your original point.

[H. Pedersen]

But the real original point was what the quality is like in some of the smaller European leagues, because that is relevant when it comes to assigning weight to people's experience managing in those leagues.

But is it positive or negative? There's no doubt that MLS is a lower quality league than the Premier League, but it's also much more balanced. Last season the top and bottom teams were separated by 39 points vs. 64 points in the Premier League (though MLS does only play 34 games in the regular season). Now I would argue that Bruce Arena's ability to exploit loopholes and put together a team that can win a balanced league is more impressive than Mancini's ability to win the league with a team made of player who each make more money than most MLS teams.

That doesn't mean Arena is necessarily a better manager than Mancini, but his skillset is certainly more suited to our situation.

[thebish]

But the real original point was what the quality is like in some of the smaller European leagues, because that is relevant when it comes to assigning weight to people's experience managing in those leagues.

But is it positive or negative? There's no doubt that MLS is a lower quality league than the Premier League, but it's also much more balanced. Last season the top and bottom teams were separated by 39 points vs. 64 points in the Premier League (though MLS does only play 34 games in the regular season). Now I would argue that Bruce Arena's ability to exploit loopholes and put together a team that can win a balanced league is more impressive than Mancini's ability to win the league with a team made of player who each make more money than most MLS teams.

That doesn't mean Arena is necessarily a better manager than Mancini, but his skillset is certainly more suited to our situation.

hang on - when I suggested a 'Murican manager - you told me there's was no way on God's earth it would work!! now you're saying Bruce Arena would be a good fit???

[Worthy4England]

But the real original point was what the quality is like in some of the smaller European leagues, because that is relevant when it comes to assigning weight to people's experience managing in those leagues.

But is it positive or negative? There's no doubt that MLS is a lower quality league than the Premier League, but it's also much more balanced. Last season the top and bottom teams were separated by 39 points vs. 64 points in the Premier League (though MLS does only play 34 games in the regular season). Now I would argue that Bruce Arena's ability to exploit loopholes and put together a team that can win a balanced league is more impressive than Mancini's ability to win the league with a team made of player who each make more money than most MLS teams.

That doesn't mean Arena is necessarily a better manager than Mancini, but his skillset is certainly more suited to our situation.

I think this is a good thing, Mancini might turn us down.

[H. Pedersen]

hang on - when I suggested a 'Murican manager - you told me there's was no way on God's earth it would work!! now you're saying Bruce Arena would be a good fit???

I'm just using Arena in this case because MLS is a good example of a balanced, lower-quality league.

[Bruce Rioja]

hang on - when I suggested a 'Murican manager - you told me there's was no way on God's earth it would work!! now you're saying Bruce Arena would be a good fit???

I'm just using Arena in this case because MLS is a good example of a balanced, lower-quality league.

So's the Scottish third. Elgin Marbles are doing quite well - Ross Jack in