The Debt.

[boltonboris]

I'm sure dropping points in the Premier League is better for the club than dropping points in the Championship

[thebish]

So you agree that its a bit silly considering our current plight to suggest that being in a higher division (a feat in itself that would require a miraculous turnaround in fortune) would elicit the ire of the majority of fans?

what I was saying was that i don't think there is any sign of this unrest that you speak of just now...

i'd be delighted with promotion.

[Lord Kangana]

I think you must have misread. I haven't said anywhere that there is unrest.

[thebish]

I think you must have misread. I haven't said anywhere that there is unrest.

what you said was: "what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces"

there isn't currently any unrest to speak of - which must mean that it's not so bad - or it hasn't been so bad for long enough, no?

so that's good news!

[Bruce Rioja]

The point I was making is that it is harder than it sounds IMO to go up and just pocket the money and accept you're coming straight back down, then continue to use the money to pay the debt off.

What about West Brom? They must've pocketed an absolute mint!

[BWFC_Insane]

The point I was making is that it is harder than it sounds IMO to go up and just pocket the money and accept you're coming straight back down, then continue to use the money to pay the debt off.

What about West Brom? They must've pocketed an absolute mint!

Aye West Brom are the best example of doing it. But they did it when FFP wasn't around. I mean even if you signed nobody presumably as soon as you went up your existing players will want or be entitled to rises. It is hard I suspect to do it without increasing costs somewhat. And then the trouble now is you get penalised for that IF you come down. The more I think about it, the more this FFP thing is absolute nonsense.

[CrazyHorse]

I'd say doing what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces. We also risk losing players and manager, for very different reasons.

doesn't seem to be that much unrest on the terraces so far... we've seen a lot worse under previous tenures...

Not much unrest? Are you for real? 90% of the stadium were ready to nice person Zat Knight on Wednesday.

That aside, what do you think the booing every game and the half empty stadium signify?

[wigan white]

I'd say doing what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces. We also risk losing players and manager, for very different reasons.

doesn't seem to be that much unrest on the terraces so far... we've seen a lot worse under previous tenures...

Not much unrest? Are you for real? 90% of the stadium were ready to tw*t Zat Knight on Wednesday.

That aside, what do you think the booing every game and the half empty stadium signify?

I agree with you CH but I see were Bish is coming from as under Megson/Coyle, there was complete uproar from the terraces, however, I think the feeling is the same now, its just theres an apathy around the Reebok and people are that fed up with whats going on not just on the pitch but in the boardroom, that theyve given up and just attend the matches for the sake of it. Thus given the impression that DF is being given a more easy ride by the home fans than previous managers.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

If we were to get promoted, and we're in flying pigs territory here, then all the club is obliged to do is pay contractual bonuses etc. We would only have to spend minimally to replace players that leave, leaving a good 30 million or so unspent from the extra tv money. We would then upon the likely relegation be getting somewhere near double the parachute payments we do now. I haven't the exact figures to hand but I don't think I'm exaggerating them significantly.

Of course some fans will be unhappy if we aren't seen to be spending lots of money to stay up. But if they are too thick to see that the club were trying to safeguard the club from ceasing to exist, then that is their problem. If we're honest, we'd probably have to double the debt to have any chance of us staying up anyway. Some things are more important than bragging rights and getting the financial footing of the club has to come first right now. From memory the 3rd season parachute payment drops by half, so we're looking at a big loss again next year I reckon.

[boltonboris]

I think that is the case Wigan White.

No bedsheets for the manager yet. Few for the Chairman, but none for this particular delusional Scot.

[BWFC_Insane]

Thing is, how many people were happy when we scrapped for 13th under Megson? Many were indeed on here saying they'd not go until....etc etc.

I mean there is the whole 'you don't know what you've got till its gone' and clearly promotion and premiership football even if we're getting dicked every week is better for the club. But I'm not convinced it would be seen that way by the majority.

First promotion to the premiership, and how many were happy that season we finished bottom? Hardly any. And a lot of unrest and terrace unhappiness.

So were the club to go up and absolutely do nothing, I can see protests and 'Greedy Gartside' postings on here and possibly bedsheets. And people saying it is the worst period they've watched the club in and they won't go again etc etc.

I'm not even sure what the point is I'm trying to make, merely that promotion with the sole aim of debt reduction requires a lot of understanding and patience from the support and a board with a strong enough credit in the goodwill bank to get away with it. I'm not sure we're there, in fact I'd say we have the polar opposite scenario.

Ultimately I don't think that now, getting promotion is the fix-all. Clearly it would be better, but I think there are bigger questions to answer, and crucially longer term ones.

[boltonboris]

Personally, I'm not overly arsed what level we're playing at.

What pisses me off, is that we've got capable players, earning a shitload who are doing feck all. And another manager who is sucking the life out of the stands with turgid football. We should be doing better. If Dougie had all of his players shipped out and had to replace them with league 2 players, I'd be less annoyed about the whole thing

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

With some proper PR it can easily be done. Even the scoreboard corner morons can be made to understand, that setting aside your ambitions for a couple of seasons is better than having to choose a new club to support, as the one you've been booing for the last X years just ceased to exist.

[thebish]

I'd say doing what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces. We also risk losing players and manager, for very different reasons.

doesn't seem to be that much unrest on the terraces so far... we've seen a lot worse under previous tenures...

Not much unrest? Are you for real? 90% of the stadium were ready to tw*t Zat Knight on Wednesday.

That aside, what do you think the booing every game and the half empty stadium signify?

i haven't heard reports of Dougie-out chanting - or seen the emergence of bed-sheets yet... owt else is just regular grumbling... get a grip!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

DF does seem to be getting a much easier ride than results would dictate. Imagine OC/GM having our worst start ever ever.

Also, Hoss, hating certain players is nothing new, down the ages. It's only when they're ALL despised, along with manager and board, that it becomes a problem.

[LeverEnd]

I'd say doing what we're doing is also a good way to lead to unrest on the terraces. We also risk losing players and manager, for very different reasons.

doesn't seem to be that much unrest on the terraces so far... we've seen a lot worse under previous tenures...

Not much unrest? Are you for real? 90% of the stadium were ready to tw*t Zat Knight on Wednesday.

That aside, what do you think the booing every game and the half empty stadium signify?

I agree with you CH but I see were Bish is coming from as under Megson/Coyle, there was complete uproar from the terraces, however, I think the feeling is the same now, its just theres an apathy around the Reebok and people are that fed up with whats going on not just on the pitch but in the boardroom, that theyve given up and just attend the matches for the sake of it. Thus given the impression that DF is being given a more easy ride by the home fans than previous managers.

The Knight anger quickly subsided (thanks largely to Baptiste) and there aren't a lot of people having a go at DF. Same under OC, it was only right at the end he got a bit of stick. I think since Megson left the fans have been patient, or apathetic.

[wigan white]

I think since Megson left the fans have been pathetic.

You are Gary Megson and I claim my £5!!!!

[LeverEnd]

I think since Megson left the fans have been pathetic.

You are Gary Megson and I claim my £5!!!!

Yes Wigan White, and you will respect my authoritaaaaa!!!

[TANGODANCER]

Apparently Jan Gregus isn't having his "contract" renewed and is going home..

[Lord Kangana]

I still don't know what he is or what he does. Was he our loanee Tea Lady or something? Why can't we bring our own through?