Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[plymouth wanderer]

Or the players weren't as good as he thought and he's admitted that. Let it go ffs. Never changed your mind?

[plymouth wanderer]

I wish our centre halfs were as quick to pounce on a loose ball as Bish is to pounce on any perceived BWFCI error. Did he return one of your round robin xmas letters in the past or sommat?

As as bwfci posts he's all over it like a tramp on chips

As has been said it's getting tedious now

[BWFC_Insane]

Or the players weren't as good as he thought and he's admitted that. Let it go ffs. Never changed your mind?

I don't think BWFCi has changed his mind - what changed was the manager - and so BWFCi's facts changed overnight to suit...

BWFCi not only declared that we had an ace premiership squad - but if anyone who suggested otherwise, he suggested they were either mad - or Coyleites with heads buried in the sand - or both...

this mind-change only came when he no longer needed EVERYTHING to be Coyle's fault...

if it was up to Coyle to organise the squad - then it is also up to Freedman to organise the squad. sauce for the goose..

personally - as I believed at the start of the season - we have a fairly average squad - and Coyle was incapable of making them any more than that. he bought some fairly average players - and that was his fault.

what I DON'T believe is that there is any appreciable change under Freedman (as BWFCi keeps telling me there obviously and clearly is.)

with the same squad - in this division - the disastrous Coyle was going at 1.1ppg... Freedman is going at 1.27ppg

so - yeah - an improvement - but a 0.17ppg improvement?? is that really clear and obvious?? I don't think so. 0pts to show for two games against Peterborough and Sheffield Wednesday???

I just think we should be honest and not simply change the facts wholesale to suit a new argument.

We're nowhere near "Freedman Out!" (I agree with BWFCi there and have said so) - and BL3 is a cock - but let's not pretend that Freedman's start here is anything but disappointing. It is disappointing.

Right let's get something straight here.

Bruce and I attended the fans forum at the start of the season. Our then manager paid to make these calls said 'we have a tremendous young squad' and that anything short of promotion with the players we have would be 'failure'. And indeed it was the squad he had always envisioned.

I did think that coming down to the championship that players who would struggled a bit in the premiership would do well at this level and that on paper we had a very good squad for this league. Im certainly not alone in that view, most opposing managers have said so too, for example.

However, as it turns out we have a squad of cowards who are too brittle physically and mentally to do well in this league. We have an unbalanced squad assembled by the man who built the squad in his own words that 'he always wanted'. Whatever way you slice I was right about Coyle. Whether the case was that he couldn't get the best out of good players, or just spent 3 seasons building a group of shitters, either way he was a wrong 'un

I've not offered an opinion on Freedman as I've repeatedly said its way too early given what he's got to work with.

I do believe I overrated the squad at the start of the season and probably underrated this division. I've held my hands up to that. But I'm certainly not the only one, and seemingly our manager paid a lot of money to build said squad did the same.

If Freedman does the same as Coyle over the next few years I will be calling for his head in the same way, but I'd rather be optimistic now and give him the benefit of the doubt.

What's funny is that when Coyle was here you accused me of being constantly and historically negative about the club and the managers. I pointed out this was not the case but you persisted with saying it was. Are you going to change your mind on that now you're accusing me of being too positive about Freedman?

It's a tough job this mind changing business.

[BL3]

I've not offered an opinion on Freedman

You haven't? Didn't you tell us that he'd made us harder to beat? That there had been noticeable improvement? That he was a student of the game? Or are you just hedging your bets? Again.

[CrazyHorse]

I don't give a shite if 11 games isn't enough time to judge him. He's the wrong man to manage BWFC.

[Harry Genshaw]

I've not offered an opinion on Freedman

You haven't? Didn't you tell us that he'd made us harder to beat? That there had been noticeable improvement? That he was a student of the game? Or are you just hedging your bets? Again.

Talkin of hedging bets, you now seem convinced that McCarthy was the man for us. Since you seem to come on here a lot after a defeat perhaps now is as good a time as any for you to answer THE question

Was Coyle a poor manager or did he build a poor team? Should he have been sacked or not?

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't give a shite if 11 games isn't enough time to judge him. He's the wrong man to manage BWFC.

And why is that? And is there a 'right man'?

[CrazyHorse]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

[Sponge]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

Yeah, but who?

[plymouth wanderer]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

Yeah, but who?

It's got to be someone of ov this forum surely

[thebish]

What's funny is that when Coyle was here you accused me of being constantly and historically negative about the club and the managers. I pointed out this was not the case but you persisted with saying it was. Are you going to change your mind on that now you're accusing me of being too positive about Freedman?

It's a tough job this mind changing business.

nope - I didn't - you're making that up.

I have only ever called you when you have done what you usually do - and totally exaggerated or gone ludicrously over the top - as you did when you got into the habit of blaming Coyle for absolutely everything - and (you did this over MANY WEEKS) simply and stubbornly and persistently refusing to accept that the players could be even the slightest bit to blame - because it was ALL the manager's fault - even if they played badly - because he didn't play them in the right positions - or he didn't manage them correctly - you argued for WEEKS that NONE of it was the players' fault.

yet - NOW - just a couple of months later - the same squad - pretty much the same results - and the same disappointing and weak performances - and it is suddenly ALL the players fault and nothing to do with the manager.

the truth is - the world is not black and white - but shades of grey (though - maybe not 50!) it is never ALL the manager's fault and never ALL the players' fault the world is more complicated than that - and so is football.

it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to make any lasting decisions about Freedman - but the start has been disappointing - and he has NOT made the obvious and clear difference that you keep insisting he has.

is it not just possible that this is the truth:

that Freedman is better than Coyle - but that this doesn't mean he has to be flawless and beyond criticism? and that just because occasionally he might make some of the same mistakes Coyle made - and sometimes he may fail - that DOESN'T mean that by admitting it and just being honest about it - that we all suddenly think he's shite and should be sacked.

oh - and yes, you HAVE offered an opinion on Freedman - only this week - you said he had made us harder to beat - and you also said he has made an obvious/visible difference to our performances... has he???

[CrazyHorse]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

Yeah, but who?

If I knew the answer to that I'd have Gartside's job. I've not, so I'll plump for that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season.

[CrazyHorse]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

Yeah, but who?

It's got to be someone of ov this forum surely

I reckon that 2399 could do a job for us. Knows a bargain, has an eye for talent. 2399 in!

[plymouth wanderer]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

Yeah, but who?

It's got to be someone of ov this forum surely

I reckon that 2399 could do a job for us. Knows a bargain, has an eye for talent. 2399 in!

Settled

[Gail Platz]

Campo's off on Twitter again:

Everybody know i would like come back to Bolton and help to the team but i cant do anything cause NEVER i recive a propousal for the club.

Only a bad notice in the BOXING DAY.My team ( BOLTON WCF ) lost today. Very sad news buy i have confidance in the team. GO whites !!!

If only the current lot had his passion for the club.

[Prufrock]

What's funny is that when Coyle was here you accused me of being constantly and historically negative about the club and the managers. I pointed out this was not the case but you persisted with saying it was. Are you going to change your mind on that now you're accusing me of being too positive about Freedman?

It's a tough job this mind changing business.

nope - I didn't - you're making that up.

I have only ever called you when you have done what you usually do - and totally exaggerated or gone ludicrously over the top - as you did when you got into the habit of blaming Coyle for absolutely everything - and (you did this over MANY WEEKS) simply and stubbornly and persistently refusing to accept that the players could be even the slightest bit to blame - because it was ALL the manager's fault - even if they played badly - because he didn't play them in the right positions - or he didn't manage them correctly - you argued for WEEKS that NONE of it was the players' fault.

yet - NOW - just a couple of months later - the same squad - pretty much the same results - and the same disappointing and weak performances - and it is suddenly ALL the players fault and nothing to do with the manager.

the truth is - the world is not black and white - but shades of grey (though - maybe not 50!) it is never ALL the manager's fault and never ALL the players' fault the world is more complicated than that - and so is football.

it is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too early to make any lasting decisions about Freedman - but the start has been disappointing - and he has NOT made the obvious and clear difference that you keep insisting he has.

is it not just possible that this is the truth:

that Freedman is better than Coyle - but that this doesn't mean he has to be flawless and beyond criticism? and that just because occasionally he might make some of the same mistakes Coyle made - and sometimes he may fail - that DOESN'T mean that by admitting it and just being honest about it - that we all suddenly think he's shite and should be sacked.

oh - and yes, you HAVE offered an opinion on Freedman - only this week - you said he had made us harder to beat - and you also said he has made an obvious/visible difference to our performances... has he???

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said none of it was the players' fault, rather that, if any of it was the players fault, then after three years, and having signed each and every one of them at least once, then if the players consistently f*ck up, that too is the manager's fault, coz he signed them. Sometimes you lose games because the tactics are obviously wrong. If that happens, it is the manager's fault, clear cut. Sometimes you lose games because the players perform badly. That happens on occasion just because enough have a bad day, but if it happens on a regular basis you look at the man picking them. I think, what I've been told about Blackburn aside, we've been pish for about six weeks. Freedman's changed it, picked a lot of players, and still poor performances. I don't think he deserves no blame for that, but Jesus only turned water into wine, he couldn't do any miracles with piss.

[Caribbean White]

feck knows why we have not sussed this out before, but did Dougie not say he spoke to Coyle prior to taking the job.

Imagine the conversation, Dougie........ What am I taking on.

Coyle......... A group of talented Proffesionals, but you have to make them feel the love.

Dougie......... Thats all I needed to hear, but WTF is this feeling loved shit.

Coyle......... Well these players need an arm around their shoulders, they have suffered relegation.

Dougie........... I get that Owen but, if they have talent then they should be challenging the top six.

Coyle........... No you miss my point, love them like they are your family, praise them at every opportunity, oh and always tell the fans they are fantastic, thats always a good one.

Dougie...... Thats all I needed to know, players are gullible feck*, fans are thick as feck, and I just got an extra 400k in the bargain, Crystal who.

[SmokinFrazier]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

I agree with this.

Freedman did well at Palace but ultimately, he only achieved three things. Firstly, he stopped them from getting relegated. Secondly, he had a good cup run and beat United. Thirdly, he built a solid team. Whilst that is all well and good, it's nowhere near enough to warrant a club like us from giving him a managerial position. He hadn't achieved enough and it's that simple. He's been a manager for less than two years and he's not had any success. There was no sign he could work with a good team, there's no sign he has an eye for a good transfer, there's no sign he can get promotion and numerous other things.

It was a gamble. Freedman is an unproven, young manager and Gartside took a risk with him. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't. It's a complete gamble.

I was optimistic about Freedman but I wish we had gone for a proven manager instead.

[a1]

all these "proven managers" had been sacked elsewhere.

and megson were better than them all.

but bolton (specifically gartside) were not gonna get him back (i wouldnt be arsed, i think he'dve kept them up in the hull 2-2 season and at any point last season). so he went looking for an allardyce-esque type.

being too pally with coyle when he shouldve been fecked off/or never appointed due to happy clappy warning signs is having big negative effects. and maybe dougiecool is an attempt to put it in a more 'employee thats a good lad' distance to it, but at the same time he wont go "full megson" and piss folk off coz someones brother's mate's dead dog vet's sister boyfriend heard rumours he punched someone mouthy in training.

hopefully coyle's not freeloaded all the money and mr. freedman can get some good ones in to replace coyle's crap.

i think the "m0ngs" wont get their way anymore, so if they hate dougie then it's tough shit.

[SmokinFrazier]

Yeah, it was a choice between someone unproven or proven - sadly, all the "proven" managers had failed at the same level Coyle had. Unlike Freedman though, someone like McCarthy has had experience getting promotion, so it's a tricky situation. Do you go for a proven success at Championship level and failure at Premier League level, or someone entirely unproven, who could potentially be the next Allardyce or, leas fortunately, the next Coyle?

It was a tough choice. Sadly, I think we made the wrong one. I don't think Freedman has the experience or natural managerial ability to get us promoted.