Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[boltonboris]

11 points taken from the last 30 available. 4 points in 5 games in December. 3 of those matches were at home and none if those games were against top half teams.

If people can see any sort of improvement then they must be deluding themselves.

[boltonboris]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

We've practically got him. If I remember correctly, he's just Allardyce MKII because he uses words like 'scientific' and he uses computer programmes. How could you fail with such foolproof managerial techniques.

[Wandering Willy]

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said none of it was the players' fault,

Oh I think they did.

They went so far as to raid The Sky TV book of " 110 % Made Up Words for Football Pundits" and claimed that the same players would be fine if only someone, anyone, just not Coyle was in charge.

See, then we would be "organised".

I wonder how well those folk think Freedman is organising the team now?

[Whookam]

Blackburn seem to think that 10 games is enough to judge a manager.

[Peter Thompson]

IMO Freedmans post match comments are quite alarming - he's very quickly turning into Coyle MK II, I can sometimes understand a manager defending his players at all costs but he can't surely believe this ?

“Defensively we struggled at times in the first half, but we addressed those problems after the restart"

“In the second half I thought we gave it a real good go. We upped the tempo, passed the ball well and showed lots of desire to get forward. I felt we were unfortunate not to get a goal"

“The players have shown me they have the quality. I feel if we are able to add experience it will improve our squad.”

[thebish]

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said none of it was the players' fault,

aye - BWFCI did - it was an ongoing discussion over several days - if the players were playing badly or appearing not interested - then it was entirely the manager's fault. When I suggested it might be a combination of manager and players - BWFCi told me - no - it was the manager's fault and the players only looked bad because he had not motivated them and he was playing them in the wrong position and now they didn't want to play for him...

[Worthy4England]

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said none of it was the players' fault,

Oh I think they did.

They went so far as to raid The Sky TV book of " 110 % Made Up Words for Football Pundits" and claimed that the same players would be fine if only someone, anyone, just not Coyle was in charge.

See, then we would be "organised".

I wonder how well those folk think Freedman is organising the team now?

Dunno, but yesterday was all Kevin Davies fault.

[Wandering Willy]

Touché

[Midnite]

I still can't understand why Freedman left Palace for Bolton. Double wages..doubt it. A fear that if Palace were promoted they would come straight back down...maybe...or did Gartside promise him something we don't know about...the transfer window should tell us that. If there's no money available then God knows why he came here..no money means we aint going nowhere.

[BL3]

Sheffield Wednesday had won two games away from home all season... at Ipswich and Barnsley. The worrying thing for us is that they've now won three games in a row. Add to that the fact that Peterborough and Ipswich are starting to show a bit of form. Dougie eventually found a winning formula at Palace after three straight defeats in the league at the start of this season and a 4-1 hammering at Preston in the League Cup. He needs to do the same for us sooner rather than later, or we could easily get dragged into a relegation battle.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

You didn't want McCarthy. The most realistic option at the time with experience.

So which realistic option DO you want?

We can all say Big Sam but might as well say Mourinho.

[Prufrock]

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said none of it was the players' fault,

Oh I think they did.

They went so far as to raid The Sky TV book of " 110 % Made Up Words for Football Pundits" and claimed that the same players would be fine if only someone, anyone, just not Coyle was in charge.

See, then we would be "organised".

I wonder how well those folk think Freedman is organising the team now?

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said none of it was the players' fault,

aye - BWFCI did - it was an ongoing discussion over several days - if the players were playing badly or appearing not interested - then it was entirely the manager's fault. When I suggested it might be a combination of manager and players - BWFCi told me - no - it was the manager's fault and the players only looked bad because he had not motivated them and he was playing them in the wrong position and now they didn't want to play for him...

I could be wrong (and no doubt bishy will be able to dig out some six month old quote showing me I am!) but I remember the general force of the argument was that it was entirely Coyle's fault because either:

a)it was entirely his fault because he couldn't motivate them, and kept playing them in the wrong position; OR,

b)some of it was the players' fault, but that still made it the managers fault as he'd signed them all.

As it happens, at the time I thought it was more a) than b).

The thing is though, even if BWFCi did think it was entirely a), and not at all b), it isn't ridiculous to change his mind as Coyle gets sacked, because that's the only point at which it becomes obvious whether it was actually a), b) or both. He's admitted he was wrong, and it's wearing a bit to see constant dug up quotes about things he said then that aren't the same as things he says now. People's opinions change, and consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative .

Anyway, WW, a team that starts N'Gog and Afobe clearly aren't going anywhere either or they? .

[thebish]

I could be wrong (and no doubt bishy will be able to dig out some six month old quote showing me I am!)

do your own research!! - but, yes - you are!

People's opinions change, and consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative .

hmm.. but I don't think BWFCi's opinion HAS changed - that's my point. Both opposite "opinions" he has told us are entirely based on him going to the games and watching the players and seeing what he sees...

what has changed is the point BWFCi wants to make - so he is changing the facts to suit the new point he wants to make.

previously he was trying to make the point that everything was Coyle's fault - so he needed the players to be ace - so that ANYONE but Coyle (it was plain to see) could just organise them and storm the league.

Now he is trying to make the point that Freedman is doing all the right things - so he needs the players all to be shoite - so that even if Freedman does all the right things and makes all the right noises - it isn't his fault because with the players that he he has he is quite simply powerless to change anything.

if we re-appointed Coyle - then the players would all be come ace again - overnight...

[CrazyHorse]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

You didn't want McCarthy. The most realistic option at the time with experience.

So which realistic option DO you want?

We can all say Big Sam but might as well say Mourinho.

Don't remember saying I didn't want McCarthy, I would've had him even though he's a dirty wolves bastard. I'd have been happy with Holloway too despite being a dirty Blackpool bastard, but really, I've no idea. It's not my choice to make so luckily I get the luxury of sitting back and sagging off Garty for making the wrong decision on my behalf.

Maybe Freedman would be the right man if we were embarking on a five year rebuilding plan but we're not, we're supposed to be trying to get back to the Prem and to do that you need someone who knows what they're doing.

[thebish]

anyway...

Dougie's latest theory is that we have plenty of quality - that's not the problem - we just need more experience..

“The players have shown me they have the quality. I feel if we are able to add experience it will improve our squad.”

[CrazyHorse]

I guess big Kev Davies despite being 57, having a England cap and having played in Europe isn't experienced enough. Nice one Douglas.

[Wandering Willy]

Anyway, WW, a team that starts N'Gog and Afobe clearly aren't going anywhere either or they? .

Probably not. Not in a 4-4-2 which is what I think we played on Saturday with NGog out of position in the hole.

We'd have lost 4-0 with yer mate in.

[BWFC_Insane]

He's the wrong man because he doesn't know what he's doing. He's inexperienced, naive and tactically inept. We don't need some kid fresh out of coaching badge school cutting his managerial teeth with us by trying to force some discipline into our squad of misfiring missfits. It's not working.

In an ideal world I'd have that fat bastard who got West Ham promoted last season but failing that just someone, anyone with a defensive eye and five more year's experience.

You didn't want McCarthy. The most realistic option at the time with experience.

So which realistic option DO you want?

We can all say Big Sam but might as well say Mourinho.

Don't remember saying I didn't want McCarthy, I would've had him even though he's a dirty wolves bastard. I'd have been happy with Holloway too despite being a dirty Blackpool bastard, but really, I've no idea. It's not my choice to make so luckily I get the luxury of sitting back and sagging off Garty for making the wrong decision on my behalf.

Maybe Freedman would be the right man if we were embarking on a five year rebuilding plan but we're not, we're supposed to be trying to get back to the Prem and to do that you need someone who knows what they're doing.

You did iirc post at the time saying you don't want McCarthy.

I was in the pro McCarthy camp.

However Allardyce promoted us without that much experience.

I personally don't think Freedman has done much different to what most managers who know what they're doing would have done. Gone 4-5-1 tried to make us tougher to break down. And it worked to an extent excluding the last two games, and even yesterday Wednesday scored with what seemed to be their only really decent chance.

We are fairly limited for choice right now in terms of player selection.

The realisation that we are now a bottom half championship side and if we want to be better than that we need to earn it, hasn't really hit home with our players. That may well be Freedmans fault, but it could equally be that we've got a rotten bunch who can't lift themselves after18 months of failure. For the minute I have more faith in Freedman than Coyle. I'd have probably preferred McCarthy and said so at the time, but I do think whoever we put in charge had to rebuild us in the longer term. If Freedman can repeat the miracle he performed at Palace everyone will be delighted. If he can't then no doubt we will be a near bottom of the championship, or worse, side looking for the next miracle man, with fans who have unrealistic expectations, thinking we can attract a proven manager who has never failed at a club before.

[Mar]

Hopefully the players will buy into what Freedman is trying to achieve and hopefully we will start to progress. If the players sit there thinking that their careers are all going down the pan and feeling sorry for themselves then no doubt they'll have to be replaced with those who are going to buy into what the club wants to achieve.

I think Allardyce's ability to sell the club to the players was one of his better attributes. He gave them a clear picture of what the club was trying to achieve (told them about long term goals) and quantifiable methods on how he was going to achieve it (science and technological approach). Hopefully from what I've heard from the press reports is that Dougie has a similar technological approach (not entirely sure how accurate that is) and that he will eventually get players coming to use his approach to the game.

[Worthy4England]

Anyway, WW, a team that starts N'Gog and Afobe clearly aren't going anywhere either or they? .

Probably not. Not in a 4-4-2 which is what I think we played on Saturday with NGog out of position in the hole.

We'd have lost 4-0 with yer mate in.

Maybe we should list all the forward positions that N'gog doesn't play as a sort of Christmas top 100 quiz.

I'll start with

1) In the hole (nicked this one off Boris)
2) Up front and wide on either flank
3) Up front anywhere, where he might have to head it.


Etc etc.