Hover through the fog and filthy air: Boro (A) 15.8.15

[Peter Thompson]

I don't know why anyone is remotely surprised by either the result or the performance.

I like Lennon and believe that he will get things right eventually (but it won't be this season !), but he's starting to become stubborn in his selection, a bit like Freedman - when you continually pick shite players week in week out you will not win many football matches at this level (even though its only the championship) - I've said for ages now that Danns & Feeney are utter shite and its like playing with 9 men and week in week out they continue to prove me right.

Until Lennon opens his eyes and stops playing these players (and the likes of Moxey) we will simply not improve - just like his 3-5-2 bollocks, I thought the combination of Lennon, Miallby & Parker would be able to quickly spot who was decent & who wasn't but the more Lennon continually plays Danns & Feeney my doubts in the management teams ability to improve us enough to get us up this league start to kick in.

And all this tinkering with formations, tactics every week is just madness - pick your best team, let them get used to each other and in a system they can play in and then let them go out and play every game to win - when most fans saw the line up yesterday they just knew that we would roll over & lose, why on earth did he set up so defensively as it just encourages the better teams to attack from the start & open us up even more.

[Hoboh]

^^^ Plus one

[thebish]

I don't know why anyone is remotely surprised by either the result or the performance.

I like Lennon and believe that he will get things right eventually (but it won't be this season !), but he's starting to become stubborn in his selection, a bit like Freedman - when you continually pick shite players week in week out you will not win many football matches at this level (even though its only the championship) - I've said for ages now that Danns & Feeney are utter shite and its like playing with 9 men and week in week out they continue to prove me right.

Until Lennon opens his eyes and stops playing these players (and the likes of Moxey) we will simply not improve - just like his 3-5-2 bollocks, I thought the combination of Lennon, Miallby & Parker would be able to quickly spot who was decent & who wasn't but the more Lennon continually plays Danns & Feeney my doubts in the management teams ability to improve us enough to get us up this league start to kick in.

And all this tinkering with formations, tactics every week is just madness - pick your best team, let them get used to each other and in a system they can play in and then let them go out and play every game to win - when most fans saw the line up yesterday they just knew that we would roll over & lose, why on earth did he set up so defensively as it just encourages the better teams to attack from the start & open us up even more.

as I said before - I'm beginning to worry that Lenny is a wee bit out of his depth... that's not to say he won't learn - but it seems it's a big step up from top of the scotty-leagues to bottom half of the english championship!

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't know why anyone is remotely surprised by either the result or the performance.

I like Lennon and believe that he will get things right eventually (but it won't be this season !), but he's starting to become stubborn in his selection, a bit like Freedman - when you continually pick shite players week in week out you will not win many football matches at this level (even though its only the championship) - I've said for ages now that Danns & Feeney are utter shite and its like playing with 9 men and week in week out they continue to prove me right.

Until Lennon opens his eyes and stops playing these players (and the likes of Moxey) we will simply not improve - just like his 3-5-2 bollocks, I thought the combination of Lennon, Miallby & Parker would be able to quickly spot who was decent & who wasn't but the more Lennon continually plays Danns & Feeney my doubts in the management teams ability to improve us enough to get us up this league start to kick in.

And all this tinkering with formations, tactics every week is just madness - pick your best team, let them get used to each other and in a system they can play in and then let them go out and play every game to win - when most fans saw the line up yesterday they just knew that we would roll over & lose, why on earth did he set up so defensively as it just encourages the better teams to attack from the start & open us up even more.

Feeney has played well in the two games I've seen this season. What choice did he have over Danns and Moxey yesterday?

Let's recognise that Lennon is severely hampered in terms of who he can pick.

Agree with the rest of it though, but then Lennon has admitted he got the system wrong yesterday.

I too like Lennon but yesterday his selection and setup were so obviously wrong from the start it is worrying he couldn't see it.

But so far we have one more point than I think most expected so let's get on with it.

Next two games very critical and Lennon must get it right both times.

[Nicko58]

Sounds like we were pretty crap and we came away with precisely what most pundits would have predicted.

Seems to be a lot of anger in this thread, so maybe folk have very high expectations of what we will achieve. Maybe if it had just been Rotherham, maybe I could understand it more.

I certainly don't have high expectations for this season, in fact I would be pleasantly surprised if we finish outside the bottom ten. What I think frustrated a lot of people, however, is that we made it harder for ourselves. If everything went as it should yesterday then we would probably have lost - they have better players, are expected to be one of the promotion contenders and were at home - but when I saw the line-up there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that not only would we lose, but that we likely wouldn't even be in the game. Three at the back with one of them a lad making his first league start and Heskey and Feeney up top was just asking for trouble. It also particularly grates when the experiment has been tried before and hasn't ever really resulted in success.

[jaffka]

I don't know why anyone is remotely surprised by either the result or the performance.

I like Lennon and believe that he will get things right eventually (but it won't be this season !), but he's starting to become stubborn in his selection, a bit like Freedman - when you continually pick shite players week in week out you will not win many football matches at this level (even though its only the championship) - I've said for ages now that Danns & Feeney are utter shite and its like playing with 9 men and week in week out they continue to prove me right.

Until Lennon opens his eyes and stops playing these players (and the likes of Moxey) we will simply not improve - just like his 3-5-2 bollocks, I thought the combination of Lennon, Miallby & Parker would be able to quickly spot who was decent & who wasn't but the more Lennon continually plays Danns & Feeney my doubts in the management teams ability to improve us enough to get us up this league start to kick in.

And all this tinkering with formations, tactics every week is just madness - pick your best team, let them get used to each other and in a system they can play in and then let them go out and play every game to win - when most fans saw the line up yesterday they just knew that we would roll over & lose, why on earth did he set up so defensively as it just encourages the better teams to attack from the start & open us up even more.

as I said before - I'm beginning to worry that Lenny is a wee bit out of his depth... that's not to say he won't learn - but it seems it's a big step up from top of the scotty-leagues to bottom half of the english championship!

Alex Neil didn't get Norwich promoted did he...

[bobo the clown]

Except Danny isn't site. He's extremely average but has on occasions last year been "like a shaft of light when all around is darkness" (name that quote). I agree that if he's what we have as our best then it's not a great sign.

Feeny similarly. He's a rubbish finisher and.not suited to be asked to operate as a wing back in a 5.

My biggest concern is that Lenin seems committed to wanting a 3 centre-half system almost to an obsession. It's worked a couple of times and failed a dozen of times. When we do play it it's like the players are strangers to it ... but I'd assume they practice it in training and it must sort of work for him to think it will in a game.

That, for me, is his main blindspot.

What resting (resting .... week 2 ??) Wilson, Clough and Madine was all about I can't work out. Heskey was wonderful for 20m last week but him starting the match is very dubious. Tinkering has to be done ... a bit ... occasionally ... when necessary.

We're all happy to give him more patience and latitude because we understand his constraints and he's 5 times the human being Megson and Freedman were, combined.

Yesterday wasn't his best day however.

[jaffka]

Sounds like we were pretty crap and we came away with precisely what most pundits would have predicted.

Seems to be a lot of anger in this thread, so maybe folk have very high expectations of what we will achieve. Maybe if it had just been Rotherham, maybe I could understand it more.

I certainly don't have high expectations for this season, in fact I would be pleasantly surprised if we finish outside the bottom ten. What I think frustrated a lot of people, however, is that we made it harder for ourselves. If everything went as it should yesterday then we would probably have lost - they have better players, are expected to be one of the promotion contenders and were at home - but when I saw the line-up there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that not only would we lose, but that we likely wouldn't even be in the game. Three at the back with one of them a lad making his first league start and Heskey and Feeney up top was just asking for trouble. It also particularly grates when the experiment has been tried before and hasn't ever really resulted in success.

Didn't we use it against Liverpool?

Well he has come out and said its his fault, that takes some balls but I'm not subscribing to fantasy formations would have got a result at boro.

What does worry me is our failure to score so far.

[thebish]

What resting (resting .... week 2 ??) Wilson, Clough and Madine was all about I can't work out. Heskey was wonderful for 20m last week but him starting the match is very dubious. Tinkering has to be done ... a bit ... occasionally ... when necessary.

indeed... bob on!! resting??? I'd imagine if anyone needed resting (after 20mins of effort the previous week) it'd be Heskey rather than young Clough!

We're all happy to give him more patience and latitude because we understand his constraints and he's 5 times the human being Megson and Freedman were, combined.

Yesterday wasn't his best day however.

couldn't agree more, though, I'd say "manager" rather than "human being" as I don't know either of the three well enough to judge them as human beings!!

[BWFC_Insane]

Except Danny isn't site. He's extremely average but has on occasions last year been "like a shaft of light when all around is darkness" (name that quote). I agree that if he's what we have as our best then it's not a great sign.

Feeny similarly. He's a rubbish finisher and.not suited to be asked to operate as a wing back in a 5.

My biggest concern is that Lenin seems committed to wanting a 3 centre-half system almost to an obsession. It's worked a couple of times and failed a dozen of times. When we do play it it's like the players are strangers to it ... but I'd assume they practice it in training and it must sort of work for him to think it will in a game.

That, for me, is his main blindspot.

What resting (resting .... week 2 ??) Wilson, Clough and Madine was all about I can't work out. Heskey was wonderful for 20m last week but him starting the match is very dubious. Tinkering has to be done ... a bit ... occasionally ... when necessary.

We're all happy to give him more patience and latitude because we understand his constraints and he's 5 times the human being Megson and Freedman were, combined.

Yesterday wasn't his best day however.

Exactly bobo. Danns and Feeney are limited but do jobs. Feeney has played well this season so far. He lacks end product but makes runs and has pace. We have nobody else to do that. Danns grafts. Limited yes but we don't have anyone else with Pratley out.

My view is that if we had 11 players willing to work like Danns and Feeney we'd be better off.

[jaffka]

We are a team in transition, the likes of Feeney and Danns do a job at the moment. I'm pretty sure if it was that easy to get shut and replace them with better then that would have happened already happened.

[Nicko58]

Sounds like we were pretty crap and we came away with precisely what most pundits would have predicted.

Seems to be a lot of anger in this thread, so maybe folk have very high expectations of what we will achieve. Maybe if it had just been Rotherham, maybe I could understand it more.

I certainly don't have high expectations for this season, in fact I would be pleasantly surprised if we finish outside the bottom ten. What I think frustrated a lot of people, however, is that we made it harder for ourselves. If everything went as it should yesterday then we would probably have lost - they have better players, are expected to be one of the promotion contenders and were at home - but when I saw the line-up there was absolutely no doubt in my mind that not only would we lose, but that we likely wouldn't even be in the game. Three at the back with one of them a lad making his first league start and Heskey and Feeney up top was just asking for trouble. It also particularly grates when the experiment has been tried before and hasn't ever really resulted in success.

Didn't we use it against Liverpool?

Well he has come out and said its his fault, that takes some balls but I'm not subscribing to fantasy formations would have got a result at boro.

What does worry me is our failure to score so far.

Liverpool played the same formation and we matched it with limited success. On pretty much every other occasion it has failed.

I am not asking you to prescribe to fantasy formations getting a result, I am merely saying that we would have had a better chance if we had played our best team, or as close to it as possible, and yesterday we didn't do that.

Anyway, as you say, he's told us that he's learned his lesson so let's hope that's the end of it.

[twilight]

I didn't expect a result yesterday, I wasn't surprised by the result...what annoyed me, as somebody previously said above, why make it harder on ourselves by making average players look like sunday league??? Middlesboro are good, granted, they may have better quality players, granted, what we shouldn't do EVER is gift a team 3 points and hand it to them on a plate!!! And I'm not judging Boro on that game either, let's see what they look like by a team who will give them a game!!

[jaffka]

Liverpool played the same formation and we matched it with limited success. On pretty much every other occasion it has failed.

I am not asking you to prescribe to fantasy formations getting a result, I am merely saying that we would have had a better chance if we had played our best team, or as close to it as possible, and yesterday we didn't do that.

Anyway, as you say, he's told us that he's learned his lesson so let's hope that's the end of it.

Drawing at anfield and coming close to knocking them out, considering where we were last season isn't limited success.

As for saying it failed on every other occasion, I don't know and leave that sort of stuff to DSB.

A best team is subjective and without access to the team and medical and training reports nobody can surely say what the best team is for that particular match.

We do have in midweek a game which it would appear we could be more likely to get something from, maybe that was a consideration in the player selections? We haven't got the biggest squad.

[Bijou Bob]

Madine and Clough weren't fully fit yesterday, which illustrates our lack of options up front. The other key point raised by Lennon was that we need some pace in the side and that's the sort of player I expect him to bring in next week. It's only match 2, we're a point ahead of where I thought we'd be, I'm not panicking yet.

[NiceHotCuppaTea]

For those who dare.

[jaffka]

Madine and Clough weren't fully fit yesterday, which illustrates our lack of options up front. The other key point raised by Lennon was that we need some pace in the side and that's the sort of player I expect him to bring in next week. It's only match 2, we're a point ahead of where I thought we'd be, I'm not panicking yet.

Nail on the head.

[Jugs]

We are a team in transition, the likes of Feeney and Danns do a job at the moment. I'm pretty sure if it was that easy to get shut and replace them with better then that would have happened already happened.

Danns' contract was up at the end of last season. We could have released him and used the wages on someone else ...

And Peter Thompson, who I remember was championing Lennon to take over before he got the job last October like a man possessed, is beginning to sound like many of us who championed Coyle until we realised he was pretty awful. Nothing against Peter, I'm just pointing out that we seem saddled by frustrating managers these days.

(and yeah Lennon is getting a bit annoying with this 3 at the back thing)

[Worthy4England]

Anyone in the team is allowed to score...realistically, unless they weigh in with a few we're stuffed regardless of who we have upfront. That said, Heskey upfront on his tod was always likely to end in nil.

[jaffka]

We are a team in transition, the likes of Feeney and Danns do a job at the moment. I'm pretty sure if it was that easy to get shut and replace them with better then that would have happened already happened.

Danns' contract was up at the end of last season. We could have released him and used the wages on someone else ...

And Peter Thompson, who I remember was championing Lennon to take over before he got the job last October like a man possessed, is beginning to sound like many of us who championed Coyle until we realised he was pretty awful. Nothing against Peter, I'm just pointing out that we seem saddled by frustrating managers these days.

(and yeah Lennon is getting a bit annoying with this 3 at the back thing)

and if I recall rightly, Danns contract was extended whilst we were in that good run and he was looking very good alongside Pratley.