If carlsberg did transfer threads.....This would be it!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

ALF is having a medical at Wolves season loan with future fee.

Mega, MEGA!! pissed off about this. Eddie Davies can feck off for me. You can't just decide you have had enough and pull the plug. ALF could be the difference between us fighting for our lives and fighting up the top end.

16k a week for ALF must be less than what Baptiste was on.

Very harsh. He's been trying to stem the losses for a few years now, not exactly a sudden pulling of the plug. He's had a procession of managers telling him that he just needs a bit more to sign Spearing/Mills/Baptiste and so on and so on. You can't keep doing it expecting a different result.

The other thing is FFP. We only just scraped in on the last accounts. With parachute payments ending and not reducing wages we'll end up with double the loss and a nice FFP ban. We have to increase revenue and reduce costs. He's not allowed to keep chucking money in even if he wanted to. The rules changed.

Finally, ALF or no ALF, we wont be getting promoted, so what's the point of gambling and deepening the shite we're in. We need to tighten the belt and squeeze every ounce out of what we've got for a couple of seasons to get ourselves into a position that we can compete financially again. Sooner folk understand that, the happier you're going to be.

FFP rules have changed now. If I am not wrong it is judged over 3 years now. This is why Boro are spending like mad men because they have longer to balance the books.

I agree with the majority of what you have said AT, I'm just frustrated I suppose. ALF would guarantee a comfortable season IMO for not a lot of money in today's market.

Our accounts have been a mess for longer than 3 years, so whichever period you average it over, we're struggling. We just need to batten down the hatches and hope we can keep our better players fit. If Clough carries on like last season, we'll have a bit of cash to spend come next summer.

[TANGODANCER]

Why are we expected to think rationally and sensibly where football's concened? It's never been the case, isn't now and never will be. If we can't compete for the league, F.A.Cup and even Premiership and possibly European level football, well, there's no Father Christmas and it just isn't fair.

For me Tango, I would take comfortable mid table. Not bothered about winning anything at all at the moment. I'm just worried we will do a Wigan if we get s few injuries to key players.

Tongue- in -cheek Chris..

[boltonboris]

I think clubs with personal ownership can accept 'investment' from owners now as long as it's not in the form of finance? So if Gibson wanted to write off £7m or whatever for Downing, it's allowed.

I'm not saying Eddie should do that, it's his money and I'm not arsed either way, but if he wanted to invest, he could do so.. the FFP line comes from the club to keep the bedsheets at bay

[BWFC_Insane]

I know I am probably coming across as ungrateful, but I just think if somebody wants to run a club, you run it until the day somebody takes over. You don't invest when the club is riding high and then pull the plug completely when things aren't so rosey in the garden.

Pull right back on the reigns by all means.. Pull everything completely? No!

We are just going to become less and less attractive to any potential buyer.

What if he can't? He might not have the money to put in. He might have something else seriously going on.

Eddie is a fan and I'm sure isn't any happier than we are about where the club is. But it is a presumption that he can do anything at this stage. Even if he could I can't blame him for not doing. He's writing off probably close to £100M that he'll never see again. Putting more in is just throwing more good money into the pile he will never ever see again.

[BWFC_Insane]

Very true. Although I don't know about the other forum members, what's pissed me off is that we've (seemingly) let him go without a fight. We had wages available, otherwise we wouldn't have offered contracts to Heskey and Dobbie, and from an "ITK" friend (knows a few relatively high at the club) we were a few thousand short of ALF's wage expectations. I said a few weeks back that we shouldn't offer contracts to Heskey and Dobbie, and use that cash for ALF and try for a season loan with future fee (gambling on a high finish or promotion). Now it appears that Wolves have offered this exact deal. If I'm feeling annoyed and frustrated, I can only guess how NL feels...

@AT: Brilliant post, completely agree.

Nixon said that the wages for Dobbie and Heskey combined aren't even half of what ALF would need. I think that is far more believeable than the club being a few thousand short. And if they were a few thousand short and haven't made it happen that is more down to Lennon and what he is prioritising. He is after a second right back from Italy. I'm sure he will be a few thousand, so if that really was the case we could have had Le Fondre if Lennon wanted him.

My suspicion is we never at any point had a chance of matching wages and loan/transfer fee that Cardiff wanted.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I think clubs with personal ownership can accept 'investment' from owners now as long as it's not in the form of finance? So if Gibson wanted to write off £7m or whatever for Downing, it's allowed.

I'm not saying Eddie should do that, it's his money and I'm not arsed either way, but if he wanted to invest, he could do so.. the FFP line comes from the club to keep the bedsheets at bay

Wasn't aware of that. Doesn't that make a mockery of 'financial fair play'?

Either way, I think Eddie has done his fair share over the years.

[BWFC_Insane]

The time for Eddie to step in and invest (with the right manager in place) was whilst we were still in the premiership. Or the summer we came down. At that point we had a chance of turning things round financially and on the field, it might have meant being uncompetitive in the top flight but at least we could have turned a profit on the TV through frugality. Once we passed that opportunity, (not really Eddie's fault) we were always going to be in trouble.

[StaffsTrotter]

I think clubs with personal ownership can accept 'investment' from owners now as long as it's not in the form of finance? So if Gibson wanted to write off £7m or whatever for Downing, it's allowed.

I'm not saying Eddie should do that, it's his money and I'm not arsed either way, but if he wanted to invest, he could do so.. the FFP line comes from the club to keep the bedsheets at bay

so what is non financial investment that enables you to buy a player ? my mind has wet spam as now the proud owners of a street of houses in middlesboro ?

[BWFC_Insane]

That doesn't surprise me, and I guessed as much myself, but she's given me accurate information before (targets, manager interviews etc) normally a good day or two before the media break the same story. Only problem is I don't see her often enough to get consistent information! I'm not saying I completely believe her, or that you and others should, but she does have direct ties to people at the club and has given me good info before so I don't dismiss it as quickly as I do with other rumours I hear from friends and acquaintances.

From what she said following our sales/releases of high earners there is actually a respectable (albeit lower than last season) wage kitty available, even after our incomings. She couldn't give exact figures, probably because her club contacts either don't want to make it public or didn't 100% know themselves, but ballpark wise we apparently weren't far off his wage expectations if we weren't to offer Heskey/Dobbie anything. She also mentioned something about FFP (possibly that if we did sign him as things stand we'd be looking at sanctions next time around?) but I can't remember the exact wording as it was a few weeks back. She did mention a few other things, but that's for another thread and time.

I do find it strange that we seemingly can't scrape together the ~£16k needed for ALF's wages when we've got rid of a lot of high earners who were on far more; that's less than what Bogdan, Andrews, Beckford, Mills, and Baptiste were on and our incomings are on far less than them. But there's only 2 people who know exactly what is going on - Davies and Gartside - and they've been silent for years now.

I'm going to be blunt here and say your friend sounds like she's making it up.

We got rid of high earners because we are losing money every year and previously had Eddie to take the losses on but now we don't. So the losses have to be reduced. That is why we can't simply replace those wages, and have to reduce them. It isn't that complicated to see that. We also will next year lose another £8M in income. So by the start of next season I believe our wage bill needs to be well below £10M. Signing ALF for ~£16K per week doesn't fit with any of that.

As the Bolton news wrote look how long we are taking to do deals with Heskey, Dobbie and Wilson. These are players on peanuts compared to Le Fondre and it has taken us all of the summer to seemingly agree a deal with Heskey, which still isn't even done yet, or at lease officially announced. We're haggling over every penny it seems.

[Bruce Rioja]

That doesn't surprise me, and I guessed as much myself, but she's given me accurate information before .

I'm going to be blunt here and say your friend sounds like she's making it up.

To be fair, recently there's even been a disconect between things that Lennon has said publicly will happen, and the way that some things have ultimately mapped out.

Personally I'm really trying to avoid getting sucked in to believing anyone's version of events just now. The club will do what it will do and there isn't a thing that I can do about any of it.

[BWFC_Insane]

That doesn't surprise me, and I guessed as much myself, but she's given me accurate information before .

I'm going to be blunt here and say your friend sounds like she's making it up.

To be fair, recently there's even been a disconect between things that Lennon has said publicly will happen, and the way that some things have ultimately mapped out.

Personally I'm really trying to avoid getting sucked in to believing anyone's version of events just now. The club will do what it will do and there isn't a thing that I can do about any of it.

Absolutely. I mean Heskey and Wilson and Dobbie are signed according to Lennon, but the club haven't confirmed that yet. Weird. To be honest I'm not even sure Lennon was that fussed on ALF. I think he might have signed someone else if he had that sort of money. But we just don't know.

[StaffsTrotter]

I'm going to be blunt here and say your friend sounds like she's making it up.

We got rid of high earners because we are losing money every year and previously had Eddie to take the losses on but now we don't. So the losses have to be reduced. That is why we can't simply replace those wages, and have to reduce them. It isn't that complicated to see that. We also will next year lose another £8M in income. So by the start of next season I believe our wage bill needs to be well below £10M. Signing ALF for ~£16K per week doesn't fit with any of that.

As the Bolton news wrote look how long we are taking to do deals with Heskey, Dobbie and Wilson. These are players on peanuts compared to Le Fondre and it has taken us all of the summer to seemingly agree a deal with Heskey, which still isn't even done yet, or at lease officially announced. We're haggling over every penny it seems.

Potentially, I never said she wasn't, I can just verify that she does know people at the club and has given accurate information before. How people take it, myself included, is entirely at their discretion.

That is completely true, and I'm not saying we should sign like-for-like at all as that is unsustainable as you say, I just find it odd that we can earmark £18k for the likes of Bogdan, lose out on him and eventually sign Amos for (rumour) a lower wage of £12k and still not scrape enough together for a potentially make or break signing like ALF.

As said the only people who know exactly what is happening have been silent for years. This really doesn't help with fan uncertainty and speculation.

Overexaggerated for effect no doubt, but I'm not sure what you'd expect PG to say. Does any chairman give a running commentary on different deals as they are going on.
I fully expect him to be on the radio being interviewed by Jimmy Wagg next Saturday and telling us what we already know - the club are walking a financial tightrope and continue to seek new investment that will safeguard the clubs future.
Wrt ALF we have no idea. The scenarios are endless - we may have been told only a buy/sale by Cardiff. NL therefore looks elsewhere, spends his budget and pissed off ALFs now going on loan. NL may have decided that he'd rather spend the budget he has elsewhere anyway and wasn't interested etc. The story'll come out at some stage.

[thebish]

aye - it was reported on here last season (end of) that Lennon told some fans that Trotter was already gone...

he's still here!

[BWFC_Insane]

What can Gartside say? We all know there is no money, that we're looking for new owners. He can't give details of any potential deals for obvious reasons. He can't probably explain why Eddie has had enough. He cannot say what we have to spend now because there is absolutely no benefit in doing so.

So beyond saying we're looking for investment and doing our best with limited resources, what can he meaningfully say now? I think the time for talking to fans is long gone. Only thing that changes our situation is a new owner, and until one is found, I think that is where Gartside's efforts need to be directed. Not making pointless statements that will only confirm what is already known.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Maybe we decided not to pay £16kpw for someone who's 29 this year

Maybe we're right

Maybe there's a self-imposed ceiling on (new) wages now, so we don't saddle the club with another long-term high-cost contract for another saviour like the last one (Spearing, Andrews, Elmander, Jardel, Len Cantello, whoever)

Maybe we're right there too

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The time for Eddie to step in and invest (with the right manager in place) was whilst we were still in the premiership.

Like when we outbid an astonished Fulham by almost 50% for Elmander?

Or the summer we came down.

Like when Stan and Ollie, expecting 2ppg in the easy ol' Champeenship, doled out along-term Prem-sized contracts to unwanted freebie thirtysomethings Knight, Andrews and Ricketts plus the ostracised reject Mills who was training with Leicester's dev squad?

It's alright saying push the boat out but one manager's life-jacket can be the next guy's millstone. If I were Eddie I might have lost a little faith by now too. And it's not like this is new: last spring we had been demonstrably better with Juke up top, and this time last summer he even delayed his move to the Prem to give us time to counter-offer, but the line went dead.

[BWFC_Insane]

The time for Eddie to step in and invest (with the right manager in place) was whilst we were still in the premiership.

Like when we outbid an astonished Fulham by almost 50% for Elmander?

Or the summer we came down.

Like when Stan and Ollie, expecting 2ppg in the easy ol' Champeenship, doled out along-term Prem-sized contracts to unwanted freebie thirtysomethings Knight, Andrews and Ricketts plus the ostracised reject Mills who was training with Leicester's dev squad?

It's alright saying push the boat out but one manager's life-jacket can be the next guy's millstone. If I were Eddie I might have lost a little faith by now too. And it's not like this is new: last spring we had been demonstrably better with Juke up top, and this time last summer he even delayed his move to the Prem to give us time to counter-offer, but the line went dead.

Oh I agree. He did invest money and it wasn't spent well. You haven't mentioned the most criminal acts, spending 7M on NGog and Sordell. That alone is absolutely sickening when you think about it now.

But I mean if we'd had a good manager on relegation that would have been the time to back him. I think Lennon is a good manager but even if Eddie fancied a splurge there are very few guarantees now.

[BWFC_Insane]

@Insane: As I said, clarifications. Frankly I'm surprised that so many people on this forum don't want more information. I understand that he can't talk about ongoing deals, if any, due to NDA - it's something I deal with at work. I don't want him to explain why we're in this predicament, or why ED has lost interest (or if it's his health). However just some damned clarification or communication about our future would be welcome.

Things like we've had some small fees come in for Baptiste and Odelusi, are they available? Or have they gone towards being a tiny drop in our ocean of debt to ED? Do we need imminent investment, or are we fine with ED at the helm (even with lack of money) so long as we're careful? Just how close are we to FFP sanctions if at all? Other clubs at our level seem to communicate this sort of thing without lots of detail, and perhaps it's normally the manager who discusses this sort of thing, but Lennon seems as fecking confused as the rest of us.

And how many of you are confident that Gartside will "secure our future" with further investment given his previous senior decisions re managers and marquee signings?

Maybe I am a solitary voice, and maybe I am expecting some answers where it's not necessary as you say Insane. I am just not personally happy that we're kept in the dark and receive mixed communications from a club that have previously been relatively open. For what it's worth I don't think it's all doom and gloom but I would appreciate a little clarity and some consistentency from the senior staff.

I get that. But I suspect our future without a new owner is incredibly bleak. In fact you don't need to suspect it, it is there in the accounts very clearly. But what is gained if Gartside comes out and says that? It just spreads panic and gets people more on edge and more frustrated.

I get that really what people want is a post-mortem of why we've ended up here and everyone really would like to hear that, but I think Gartside is in a no-win situation right now.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

One could argue that the £7m on Ngog and Sordell - yeah thanks BWFCi, I've spent years in therapy trying to forget about that - wasn't fresh input from Eddie, it was money generated by selling the best defender we've had in 40 years or more.

[Prufrock]

One could argue that the £7m on Ngog and Sordell - yeah thanks BWFCi, I've spent years in therapy trying to forget about that - wasn't fresh input from Eddie, it was money generated by selling the best defender we've had in 40 years or more.

I think we'd already spunked the £4.5m on N'Goggers the summer before hadn't we?

We managed to get Tim Ream and Marvin for Gary Cahill.

Was on a stag-do on Saturday talking about the Spurs effect, how they still manage to get £15m back for each bag o' shite they splurge on, yet we're stuck getting half that for England's first choice centre back.