Down in The Valley, something stirred. V Charlton Athletic away Sat Aug 24th 3-0 'clock.

[BWFC_Insane]

Evatt is the major issue but it’s not all him. The lack of genuine fight and desire in some of these players, our captain for one has been unacceptable for a long time. A club that’s been captained by greats should be ashamed to have a captain that makes Zat Knight look committed at times. But that’s what we’ve got. Clearly a manager should be able to call out players phoning it in and I’d have had more respect for him if he had.

But the whole club just lacks ruthlessness and is far too ‘nice’.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Yeah, that was awful. Eye-wateringly, gut-punchingly, sickeningly abysmal.

I know it's been predicted for a while but it's got a real fag-end-of-an-era feel. We've got Dion Charles, Victor Adeboyejo, Aaron Collins and John McAtee and we haven't scored a goal in three hours. Is that the players underperformkng, the manager, or both?

Well, on the latter, we asked for tactical flexibility and all we got was the latest doctrinal change to the latest One True Path. Fat load of use changing to a back four when you've just gone two down in the 86th minute.

He won't go yet, though. Sharon's not a trigger-puller and he proved in summer he's not a walker either. Besides, he's got a week of transfer window left, and three very winnable games - two in the cups either side of hosting Exeter (three straight losses), then a 10-day international break.

That time could be used to improve. To hire new players if possible. Certainly to try an alternative system – give it a go in the cups. And let them off the leash, stop being so systemic. We feel hidebound, straitjacketed.

We are underachieving. Not historically, because that's largely irrelevant – Stockport are top of the league – but with the squad we have. Evatt has to find a way - or better yet, ways plural - to start winning soon because we're already five points off the pace. Not just five points behind Stockport cocking County but also five points behind Nathan Jones' Charlton, five points behind Mike Duff's Huddersfield, three points behind the big spenders of Wrexham and Birmingham. The season isn't going to get any easier. Right now it feels like a question of how painful it can get.

[jmjhb]

Evatt is the major issue but it’s not all him. The lack of genuine fight and desire in some of these players, our captain for home has been unacceptable for a long time. A club that’s been captained by greats should be ashamed to have a captain that makes Zat Knight look committed at times. But that’s what we’ve got. Clearly a manager should be able to call out players phoning it in and I’d have had more respect for him if he had.

But the whole club just lacks ruthlessness and is far too ‘nice’.

I'd have Santos over Knight but neither are inspiring in any way.

It gets tiring 1) being a miserable bastard and 2) being proven right.

[DJBlu]

We're all panic fannies by the way.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah, that was awful. Eye-wateringly, gut-punchingly, sickeningly abysmal.

I know it's been predicted for a while but it's got a real fag-end-of-an-era feel. We've got Dion Charles, Victor Adeboyejo, Aaron Collins and John McAtee and we haven't scored a goal in three hours. Is that the players underperformkng, the manager, or both?

Well, on the latter, we asked for tactical flexibility and all we got was the latest doctrinal change to the latest One True Path. Fat load of use changing to a back four when you've just gone two down in the 86th minute.

He won't go yet, though. Sharon's not a trigger-puller and he proved in summer he's not a walker either. Besides, he's got a week of transfer window left, and three very winnable games - two in the cups either side of hosting Exeter (three straight losses), then a 10-day international break.

That time could be used to improve. To hire new players if possible. Certainly to try an alternative system – give it a go in the cups. And let them off the leash, stop being so systemic. We feel hidebound, straitjacketed.

We are underachieving. Not historically, because that's largely irrelevant – Stockport are top of the league – but with the squad we have. Evatt has to find a way - or better yet, ways plural - to start winning soon because we're already five points off the pace. Not just five points behind Stockport cocking County but also five points behind Nathan Jones' Charlton, five points behind Mike Duff's Huddersfield, three points behind the big spenders of Wrexham and Birmingham. The season isn't going to get any easier. Right now it feels like a question of how painful it can get.

It would be best to lose next week. It’s Coyle again. Win a game just prolongs the failure. Evatt won’t get us up and frankly allowing him to spend yet more money would be completely ridiculous.

I agree he won’t be sacked because if the club had the drive to get places he would have gone in the summer.

I love what Sharon stands for but I’m afraid that as Gartside found out, football isn’t the same as other businesses.

[Mar]

Maybe the fact we're playing two in midfield is to highlight the blatantly obvious. We don't have decent coverage in midfield so we need to get some more in. If that is the case its wilfully chucking away points.

Feels like we're getting close to chucking away an entire season if we keep this up.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Out of interest, I assume people who want two wingers plus overlapping fullbacks are happy playing one striker up front. Cos if you've got two (and presumably more than one centre back) then that means you only have two central midfielders – which was widely and correctly judged to be part of the problem today. Not all of the problem, by a long chalk, but part of it.

That's not to say I'm against a back four - we should definitely have that option - but football's a numbers game and if you've got four lads on the wings then you've only got six outfielders for the spine, so don't be hugely surprised if rather than being 'hard to beat' your midfield's overrun. Again.

[officer_dibble]

What he should try, but won’t, midweek is to work out what his optimum back four would be. It might not include Ricardo beckanbauer Santos. It might! It probably has Cogley at right back, Iredale left back (or possibly Johnston). Three midfielders, one of which could be Sheehan who can surely now only operate in a three. Three forwards with some width in there - Victor and Collins plus Randell/Schon?

The squad starts to look a bit odd… we’re missing a Maghoma replacement still, Arfield will do some but not all.

The alternative is go back to 352, which would at least suit Collins and Charles. And we might now have two better wingbacks as well.

Put it this way if you are our next manager and you come in with us in 17th in the league or whatever what do you do to stabilise us?

[Bertie Wooster]

Evatt is a robotic manager and we have a team of robots. There is no fight, passion, intensity, desire - no individuality or players taking the game by the scruff of the neck - they are absolutely flat track bullies and when things don't go well they hide.

DSB is right the players need to be let off the leash to play - get rid now, with this squad of players another manager will still have a chance of getting us up, yes I know that its only 3 games but many said it - after Wembley there is not much good will for Evatt about with the fans.

Evatt appears to be driven by possession % & xG etc. basically robotic.

[BWFC_Insane]

Out of interest, I assume people who want two wingers plus overlapping fullbacks are happy playing one striker up front. Cos if you've got two (and presumably more than one centre back) then that means you only have two central midfielders – which was widely and correctly judged to be part of the problem today. Not all of the problem, by a long chalk, but part of it.

That's not to say I'm against a back four - we should definitely have that option - but football's a numbers game and if you've got four lads on the wings then you've only got six outfielders for the spine, so don't be hugely surprised if rather than being 'hard to beat' your midfield's overrun. Again.

Yeah one up top. Two out wide. Three in midfield. One a hard running goalscorer who gets in the box to make the numbers for the delivery from outwide.

The optimal way imo to setup in this league is how we did against Gillingham back in 2017 or whatever it was.

[GhostoftheBok]

We're all panic fannies by the way.

No, it's right to say today was abysmal.

They all deserve all they get after that. Not an acceptable performance.

Two foul throws? THREE players making the same run at the same time? Failure to make the most basic passes in the game?

Sod 'em. You can't play like that. It's not like it's a bunch of young players.

[jmjhb]

Yeah, that was awful. Eye-wateringly, gut-punchingly, sickeningly abysmal.

I know it's been predicted for a while but it's got a real fag-end-of-an-era feel. We've got Dion Charles, Victor Adeboyejo, Aaron Collins and John McAtee and we haven't scored a goal in three hours. Is that the players underperformkng, the manager, or both?

Well, on the latter, we asked for tactical flexibility and all we got was the latest doctrinal change to the latest One True Path. Fat load of use changing to a back four when you've just gone two down in the 86th minute.

He won't go yet, though. Sharon's not a trigger-puller and he proved in summer he's not a walker either. Besides, he's got a week of transfer window left, and three very winnable games - two in the cups either side of hosting Exeter (three straight losses), then a 10-day international break.

That time could be used to improve. To hire new players if possible. Certainly to try an alternative system – give it a go in the cups. And let them off the leash, stop being so systemic. We feel hidebound, straitjacketed.

We are underachieving. Not historically, because that's largely irrelevant – Stockport are top of the league – but with the squad we have. Evatt has to find a way - or better yet, ways plural - to start winning soon because we're already five points off the pace. Not just five points behind Stockport cocking County but also five points behind Nathan Jones' Charlton, five points behind Mike Duff's Huddersfield, three points behind the big spenders of Wrexham and Birmingham. The season isn't going to get any easier. Right now it feels like a question of how painful it can get.

An excellent post.

Personally I don't think bringing in more players is the answer. Perhaps one or two for an extra option.

Fact is, he's not getting the best out of the players we do have. Whether some of them are jaded and should be moved on (Dion Charles, I'm looking at you) or just aren't fitting into our new Plan A, that's a different topic entirely

I just think the whole thing's gone stale. Last season was the chance because the club have been so well backed both by the fans and the board. Right now it feels like we're on the Titanic and there's a big white block of ice in the distance...

[DJBlu]

We're all panic fannies by the way.

No, it's right to say today was abysmal.

They all deserve all they get after that. Not an acceptable performance.

Two foul throws? THREE players making the same run at the same time? Failure to make the most basic passes in the game?

Sod 'em. You can't play like that. It's not like it's a bunch of young players.

Be that it may but there are 43 more games to come.

[Mar]

Out of interest, I assume people who want two wingers plus overlapping fullbacks are happy playing one striker up front. Cos if you've got two (and presumably more than one centre back) then that means you only have two central midfielders – which was widely and correctly judged to be part of the problem today. Not all of the problem, by a long chalk, but part of it.

That's not to say I'm against a back four - we should definitely have that option - but football's a numbers game and if you've got four lads on the wings then you've only got six outfielders for the spine, so don't be hugely surprised if rather than being 'hard to beat' your midfield's overrun. Again.

I'd be happy with one striker up top and two extra midfielders. This comes back to the lack of options up top and ineffectiveness of an isolated player up top.
I'd be happier with one up top, and one out wide up top with an extra midfielder.
What i'm not happy with at the moment is top out wide up top and not enough bodies in the midfield to compete.


With one up top and one wide, the wide man can take turns on either flank to allow for JDC, Tutu, Williams or Schon to alternate between who overlaps. Today, two wide forwards really did stop overlapping runs.

Sure the extra body allows for better interplay between the front men, but in reality, we need to get it up top and not fanny around with it. Make the chance quicker and finish it quicker. Best move I saw today was the one Dempsey nearly got on the end of, it was very few and far between we had decent delivery into the box.

[BWFC_Insane]

We're all panic fannies by the way.

No, it's right to say today was abysmal.

They all deserve all they get after that. Not an acceptable performance.

Two foul throws? THREE players making the same run at the same time? Failure to make the most basic passes in the game?

Sod 'em. You can't play like that. It's not like it's a bunch of young players.

Be that it may but there are 43 more games to come.

As there were last season and the season before. And nothing has changed.

[jmjhb]

The value of our assets is diminishing by the week, might as well get rid if they don't fit the system, especially if we're spending a million (maybe close to 2?) and going backwards.

[GhostoftheBok]

Be that it may but there are 43 more games to come.

Yes and *technically* we're a point better off than we were last season from the same fixtures.

But who gives a shit after a performance like that?

What that reminded me of was when Evatt first arrived. You could see how everything was supposed to work, but nothing was right.

He's going into his 5th season, not his first. That's not a Phoenix bodge job of a squad, there's loads of talent.

[jmjhb]

Be that it may but there are 43 more games to come.

What that reminded me of was when Evatt first arrived. You could see how everything was supposed to work, but nothing was right.

I don't even see that at the moment.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

What he should try, but won’t, midweek is to work out what his optimum back four would be. It might not include Ricardo beckanbauer Santos. It might! It probably has Cogley at right back, Iredale left back (or possibly Johnston). Three midfielders, one of which could be Sheehan who can surely now only operate in a three. Three forwards with some width in there - Victor and Collins plus Randell/Schon?

The squad starts to look a bit odd… we’re missing a Maghoma replacement still, Arfield will do some but not all.

The alternative is go back to 352, which would at least suit Collins and Charles. And we might now have two better wingbacks as well.

Put it this way if you are our next manager and you come in with us in 17th in the league or whatever what do you do to stabilise us?

Interesting thoughts and a fascinating question. Won't be long till we've got say Ryan Lowe sat in the stands keeping his eye in - well he's nowt else to do. Not saying he's the answer, but he might think he is.

Main alternative options now are a 433/4231 and a 352 (either 3142 or 3412), all of which Evatt has used before successfully (depending on your definition of 'success').

In a back four, I would play Johnston LB - two reasons: in possession he likes to drive forward and usually does so reasonably intelligently; and out of possession, if you've got him as a centre-back you might only have one six-footer in your back line and You Will Concede Goals. The three in midfield - could be one behind two or two behind one, and some flexibility would be nice - to be picked from Thomason, Matete, Sheehan, Dempsey (an 8 ), Arfield (an 8 ). Three across the front would be McAtee right, Collins left (Schön and Williams backups), Vic/Dion in the middle.

352 is less of a step change. Depending on which way your midfield triangle points it could be Sheehan behind Matete/Thomason (with Demps/Arfield as backups 8s) or, in a 3412, two from Sheehan/Matete/Thomason with Collins or McAtee at 10 behind two from Dion, Vic and whichever of Collins/McAtee isn't at 10.

We definitely have the tools and players to do better. We should have the options to deploy them differently. But our system today seemed to misuse Collins and McAtee so badly they neither offered solidity without the ball or fluidity with it - as noted, they pulled wide so often (presumably to find the holes in Charlton's 352) that they impeded their own wingbacks.

[The_Gun]

I’m concerned about the amount of money we’ve spent this summer relative to where we are in terms of performance. We really should be one of the absolute best teams in the division with that outlay.