Summer 2021 Transfer Thread.

[GhostoftheBok]

Doyle, MJ?

Dixon was apparently a voice in the Barrow dressing room, but it's different when you're in with players from higher up the leagues. It takes a certain sort to not care who they're talking to. Evatt may have been expecting more from a few of them.

[Worthy4England]

This isn't about Evatt Vs Sarce. That's no longer important. One of them is ours, the other isn't.

We need to see is someone on the pitch who can give some leadership - I don't think that's big Ric - so who's going to do that? or are we saying we're just rudderless, tough shit, wait until January?

My problem if that's the argument is WTF were we going to do if Sarce did a cruciate?

No plan B.

We can't afford that kind of plan B, I don't think. We have 3 starting births in midfield and had 4 first team players. Then we have Tutte and Thomason, who are both cheap for this level. We can't afford to pay full whack to 6 players.

Same in defence. We paid good money to Johnston and John, then decent money to Aimson. Then we kept our eyes open for options in other positions but ultimately went with what we had. Evatt said he'd get fullbacks is any became available, but we were paying 6 first team wages for 4 positions at that stage.

Up front is where we blew most of the budget, by the looks of it and that will also be why we've got holes elsewhere. There's a lot of wages up there. I think most managers would probably put their budget up top if they had to pick.

What? I'm not suggesting that we go out and buy/afford 6 full whack players. I'm saying having more than one with balls would be a benefit.

[Worthy4England]

Doyle, MJ?

Dixon was apparently a voice in the Barrow dressing room, but it's different when you're in with players from higher up the leagues. It takes a certain sort to not care who they're talking to. Evatt may have been expecting more from a few of them.

On that point. Gilks did a fair amount of the organising last season....I've not seen much of that from Dixon.

[Bertie Wooster]

IMO as a minimum we need 6 in January.

We need a new keeper as Dixon isn't good enough, big enough or commanding enough for me, a RB, a big powerful no nonsense hard CB, 2 x central midfielders (one big aggressive tough DM & a creative midfielder) and a least 1 x striker hopefully over 6ft tall who can score goals and not just tap ins.

To make room we should look at getting rid of Baptiste, Brockbank, Gordon, Tutte & Delfounso & also try and get Thomason a move back to Bamber Bridge or whoever it was, as that's his level.

[The_Gun]

IMO as a minimum we need 6 in January.

We need a new keeper as Dixon isn't good enough, big enough or commanding enough for me, a RB, a big powerful no nonsense hard CB, 2 x central midfielders (one big aggressive tough DM & a creative midfielder) and a least 1 x striker hopefully over 6ft tall who can score goals and not just tap ins.

To make room we should look at getting rid of Baptiste, Brockbank, Gordon, Tutte & Delfounso & also try and get Thomason a move back to Bamber Bridge or whoever it was, as that's his level.

Do you really think it's realistic that we'd sign six players in January that are all improvements on the incumbents? Where are we getting these players from?

[Prufrock]

I don't think got now they *all* have to be improvements on the best XI, they need to be improvements in the next lot.

If we could play e.g. Dixon, Jones, Santos, Aimson, John, MJ, Lee, Sheehan, Isgrove/Kachunga, Doyle, Dapo every week we'd be comfortably mid table at worst. But we can't, and I can't think of a single player other than Johnston and maaaaybe Amaechi you could throw in without it being a huuuuge weakness. That's not good. You could carry maybe a Gordon say, but you can't carry a centre back, a full back and a central midfielder at once.

[GhostoftheBok]

What? I'm not suggesting that we go out and buy/afford 6 full whack players. I'm saying having more than one with balls would be a benefit.

He's not though, being realistic.

We went into the first game of the season, in my view, with 7 players that Evatt would have been looking at as reliable standards setters.

Gilks, Jones, Baptiste, MJ, Sheehan, Sarcevic and Doyle. He also had faith (rightly, to my mind, given his recent displays) that Kachunga could be one too in time.

I know Insane "sees nothing in" Sheehan, but ultimately it's that lad who was organising the midfield and certainly him who has kept Thomason together in games.

The trouble was that it rapidly became clear that Gilks and Baps were nowhere close to where they were the previous season. Should that have been foreseen? Yes. Could we have done anything about it with our budgets? I doubt it.

I don't think we can separate the money from the issue. Nor injuries. Nor whatever the Sarce thing was. Of the 8 standard setters Evatt will have looked at going into the season, 2 started the Stockport game and one came off injured. 2 are so far off the required level now that we have to look seriously at using this 400k windfall to give the manager the backing to cover them for 6 months ahead of schedule. 3 are injured/ill. One left.

Ultimately having more would have meant paying more players better money. I don't think the budget was there to do that.

[Worthy4England]

What? I'm not suggesting that we go out and buy/afford 6 full whack players. I'm saying having more than one with balls would be a benefit.

He's not though, being realistic.

We went into the first game of the season, in my view, with 7 players that Evatt would have been looking at as reliable standards setters.

Gilks, Jones, Baptiste, MJ, Sheehan, Sarcevic and Doyle. He also had faith (rightly, to my mind, given his recent displays) that Kachunga could be one too in time.

I know Insane "sees nothing in" Sheehan, but ultimately it's that lad who was organising the midfield and certainly him who has kept Thomason together in games.

The trouble was that it rapidly became clear that Gilks and Baps were nowhere close to where they were the previous season. Should that have been foreseen? Yes. Could we have done anything about it with our budgets? I doubt it.

I don't think we can separate the money from the issue. Nor injuries. Nor whatever the Sarce thing was. Of the 8 standard setters Evatt will have looked at going into the season, 2 started the Stockport game and one came off injured. 2 are so far off the required level now that we have to look seriously at using this 400k windfall to give the manager the backing to cover them for 6 months ahead of schedule. 3 are injured/ill. One left.

Ultimately having more would have meant paying more players better money. I don't think the budget was there to do that.

We had 2 players at the start of the season, who could likely get our team to pull its proverbial socks up, when backs are against the wall. Gilks and Sarce.

One left (doesn't really matter why) and there must've been some notion that maybe Gilks (who only came in because Crellin was so poor) might not make it one Division up. Whilst he was good last season and did a lot of organising, there were plenty of signs that he might not have been as quick to the odd low one as a 25 year old.

We signed some players and no one thought, maybe one of them could do with some leadership qualities?

Yes, Sheehan tries to organise, but that clearly didn't have much impact even whilst he was on last night and let's be honest, he's no rattling tackler (in fact I think he put just one in last night, right on the touchline, nipped a toe in). And I don't mind that, because it's not about Sheehan.

But there's no one else either. I think it's an oversight.

[GhostoftheBok]

I don't agree it's only Sarce and Gilks, nor did Sarce (who has talked about Doyle and MJ before) and nor does Evatt.

You could just as easily ask what difference Sarce made in the Wigan game as he jogged around in the 10 position for most of the game and forced Williams out wide because he didn't track runners more than half the time. There's a real danger of turning Sarce into some kind of mythical hero who was the reason for all the good we did on the pitch. We were awful at times with him there and he was just as awful as anyone else on the pitch when we were. I was fine with Sarce and we do miss him, but let's not turn him into Roy Keane. He got clattered by Naylor 10 minutes into that Wigan game and pulled out of 50/50s all night thereafter. Santos had a go at him at one point for not putting a tackle in on Lang and Sarce pointed at Williams who was 20 yards away and shouted "his man". About 15 in Dapo misplaced a pass to a player 10 yards from Sarce who shrugged at the ref looking for a foul and then walked back as they counter attacked. Williams played a loose ball and Sarce had yards on Cousins, but it was Cousins who flew in and won it and Sarce who half swung a leg near the ball. Hector of Troy the man was not.

We 100% need more players who you'd take into the trenches with you and who are prepared to win battles, because we are never going to be good enough to play every team off the pitch. This is League One, you have to be able to go toe-to-toe with sides at times. The idea that Sarcevic was that kind of player is genuinely daft. He was the kind of player that can drag you up a pitch when things are going okay but you need to up the tempo, he was not one for a war.

Baptiste, Jones, MJ and Doyle all have more of that kind of fight in them than Sarce did.

[Worthy4England]

I don't agree it's only Sarce and Gilks, nor did Sarce (who has talked about Doyle and MJ before) and nor does Evatt.

Not sure you've called Evatt entirely correctly on this one, especially when he said something a little akin, and also lot different, in the post match interview...When asked about MJ and Doyle, he does say we missed two leaders.

Then he goes on to say

"But I think the group in general is short of leaders, but the right leaders and the right types of leader at the moment we haven't got those and we're trying to give them personal development to increase their leadership qualities."

I agree with him, he's right. We can call 100% of what we have leaders if you want to make the case, but we're still short of some of the right type and right leaders...

Good news is, he knows this, so I hope it's a factor in our recruitment = bad news is, he might have a completely different view of the "right type of leader" to me

[Bertie Wooster]

Then he goes on to say

"But I think the group in general is short of leaders, but the right leaders and the right types of leader at the moment we haven't got those and we're trying to give them personal development to increase their leadership qualities."

I agree with him, he's right. We can call 100% of what we have leaders if you want to make the case, but we're still short of some of the right type and right leaders...

Good news is, he knows this, so I hope it's a factor in our recruitment = bad news is, he might have a completely different view of the "right type of leader" to me

Exactly, he's had a couple of transfer windows to bring in some 'leaders' and he hasn't, the same with his latest post Stockport comments i.e. compete, fight, battle, scrap first then play the passing game - if this is what he thinks why hasn't he brought in a couple of players with these qualities ? he's has the opportunity in the last two transfer windows but has not yet to date brought in any players that I would consider leaders or players who love to battle, fight, scrap and won't take a backward step etc. MJ Williams can put a foot in & likes a tackle but I wouldn't class MJ as a hard, battling, Faye type player.

Evatt talks a good game but contradicts himself - if he thinks that we need these type of players then sign some.

[GhostoftheBok]

he might have a completely different view of the "right type of leader" to me

That's a fair point.

if this is what he thinks why hasn't he brought in a couple of players with these qualities ?

I'd suggest it might be because we've been scraping a squad together on free transfers and nobody wants to lose genuine leadership in their dressing room, so those players tend to get contracts.

When a play with leadership, drive and quality comes available on a free I'd imagine there's a right tussle for their signature and they probably end up a level higher than we are, either in terms of division or finance. As I said to DSB, you probably have to look down the leagues and equally as probably pay a fee - and there's not many down there either.

I can't think of many gritty, battling players who can also play the way Evatt needs who are anywhere near our price range. Maybe Anthony Hartigan?

You're right that it's his job to find them, regardless of how difficult it may be. Thus far our squad has been put together mostly from players other teams didn't want. If we want other teams driving forces we will usually have to pay for them.

[Worthy4England]

Then he goes on to say

"But I think the group in general is short of leaders, but the right leaders and the right types of leader at the moment we haven't got those and we're trying to give them personal development to increase their leadership qualities."

I agree with him, he's right. We can call 100% of what we have leaders if you want to make the case, but we're still short of some of the right type and right leaders...

Good news is, he knows this, so I hope it's a factor in our recruitment = bad news is, he might have a completely different view of the "right type of leader" to me

Exactly, he's had a couple of transfer windows to bring in some 'leaders' and he hasn't, the same with his latest post Stockport comments i.e. compete, fight, battle, scrap first then play the passing game - if this is what he thinks why hasn't he brought in a couple of players with these qualities ? he's has the opportunity in the last two transfer windows but has not yet to date brought in any players that I would consider leaders or players who love to battle, fight, scrap and won't take a backward step etc. MJ Williams can put a foot in & likes a tackle but I wouldn't class MJ as a hard, battling, Faye type player.

Evatt talks a good game but contradicts himself - if he thinks that we need these type of players then sign some.

Aye - he said no amount of understanding passing patterns makes up for the basics - so not dissimilar to what a lot of us have been saying. Paraphrasing slightly

If you don't run, tackle, win your duels (and he used the word basics) then no amount of pretty passing patterns will help you much.

I don't think we're misaligned with that view when we're shouting "get the fcuking basics sorted"

[BWFC_Insane]

he might have a completely different view of the "right type of leader" to me

That's a fair point.

if this is what he thinks why hasn't he brought in a couple of players with these qualities ?

I'd suggest it might be because we've been scraping a squad together on free transfers and nobody wants to lose genuine leadership in their dressing room, so those players tend to get contracts.

When a play with leadership, drive and quality comes available on a free I'd imagine there's a right tussle for their signature and they probably end up a level higher than we are, either in terms of division or finance. As I said to DSB, you probably have to look down the leagues and equally as probably pay a fee - and there's not many down there either.

I can't think of many gritty, battling players who can also play the way Evatt needs who are anywhere near our price range. Maybe Anthony Hartigan?

You're right that it's his job to find them, regardless of how difficult it may be. Thus far our squad has been put together mostly from players other teams didn't want. If we want other teams driving forces we will usually have to pay for them.

We don't need players who can do the same things. We need a balanced squad. If we can't find all round players then the squad needs a balance between those who can play football and those who bring the other requisite qualities. Just like every bloody squad in football outside maybe top 2 in English football!

[GhostoftheBok]

We don't need players who can do the same things. We need a balanced squad. If we can't find all round players then the squad needs a balance between those who can play football and those who bring the other requisite qualities. Just like every bloody squad in football outside maybe top 2 in English football!

That's exactly what we have.

Baka =/= Doyle =/= Kachunga =/= Dapo =/= Izzy and so on. Same in midfield, we have different kinds of players throughout the squad. If you want 22 different talented leaders you're in for a world of disappointment at this level or any other.

MJ can scrap and play football - that's why Evatt rates him, because he can do both. You are not going to change how Evatt approaches the game - it isn't happening.

I'd love a proper wrecker of a player in this side, but he would also have to be able to pass a football or there is no point.

You loved Sarcevic. I believe you thought he was our best player (I may be wrong). He wasn't getting a new contract. That was because he couldn't play well enough on the ball for Evatt to have him as a regular starter.

I'm not trying to give an opinion as to what I would personally do if I were a football manager, but Evatt was going to release the player you rated most highly because he wasn't good enough in possession. You have to be realistic about what this manager needs from players.

[Worthy4England]

We don't need players who can do the same things. We need a balanced squad. If we can't find all round players then the squad needs a balance between those who can play football and those who bring the other requisite qualities. Just like every bloody squad in football outside maybe top 2 in English football!

That's exactly what we have.

No, we don't. Evatt said we don't. I agree with him.

[GhostoftheBok]

No, we don't. Evatt said we don't. I agree with him.

No. Evatt said we don't have (the right kinds of) leaders. He didn't say we lack diversity of types of player. Those aren't the same thing.

I agree with him that we lack a certain type of player, but we are nowhere near a sea of sameness and Evatt has said before we have different tools for different games and that was intentional when he built the squad.

We're not awash with lacy wingers and tippy-tap midfielders - though in fairness we don't currently have any midfielders.

Dapo is our only hot-and-cold flair winger. Kachunga is a work horse wide forward, Izzy is a hard working orthodox winger. Doyle and Baka are radically different tools to have in a tool box.

We lack lads who will drive the rest of the side on to battle, but that doesn't mean the lads we have can't scrap. We have players who will do that, but who need the tone setting - preferably by a right nasty bastard or two at the heart of the team.

There's a real "baby out with the bathwater" thing going on here.

[Bertie Wooster]

We lack lads who will drive the rest of the side on to battle, but that doesn't mean the lads we have can't scrap. We have players who will do that, but who need the tone setting - preferably by a right nasty bastard or two at the heart of the team.

There's a real "baby out with the bathwater" thing going on here.

I disagree I don't think that we have any current players who I would say can scrap, we probably only have MJ & Doyle who on a 'one off' may be able to mix it a bit if required. IMO we don't have any players that I would class as hard, nasty, ultra competitive, really hate losing etc.

I always thought that watching Evatt for Blackpool that he had that hard, nasty streak & could mix it when necessary - we need an Evatt type no nonsense 'winner' mentality CB to play alongside Santos, and we absolutely need at least 1 if not 2 big, physical, combative central midfielders. This team needs a Faye type CM and an Evatt / Taggart type of CB.

Last season there was a question & answer session with Santos & Sarcevic where they pulled questions out of a box or something like that & one of the questions was who was the player most likely to get into a fight on the pitch, and they both agreed that it was Sarcevic which surprised me as I hadn't & have not seen him get involved in any serious altercation on the pitch in a Bolton shirt & he's had many opportunities as we have been bullied & kicked in the majority of games.

[GhostoftheBok]

I disagree I don't think that we have any current players who I would say can scrap, we probably only have MJ & Doyle who on a 'one off' may be able to mix it a bit if required. IMO we don't have any players that I would class as hard, nasty, ultra competitive, really hate losing etc.

I always thought that watching Evatt for Blackpool that he had that hard, nasty streak & could mix it when necessary - we need an Evatt type no nonsense 'winner' mentality CB to play alongside Santos, and we absolutely need at least 1 if not 2 big, physical, combative central midfielders. This team needs a Faye type CM and an Evatt / Taggart type of CB.

Last season there was a question & answer session with Santos & Sarcevic where they pulled questions out of a box or something like that & one of the questions was who was the player most likely to get into a fight on the pitch, and they both agreed that it was Sarcevic which surprised me as I hadn't & have not seen him get involved in any serious altercation on the pitch in a Bolton shirt & he's had many opportunities as we have been bullied & kicked in the majority of games.

I don't massive disagree with any of that, except I don't think every battle on a football pitch is about kicking the crap out of the other player - certainly not in the modern game with how card-happy refs are. It's more about a willingness to risk getting hurt for the cause these days.

We do need a couple of nasty, hard bastards in this side - no doubt. But the whole point of a leader isn't making the other lads hardmen, it's making them willing to work and put their bodies on the line. Kachunga, Sheehan, Jones, John ect will all go there and have in flashes, but we need a couple of lads who will push them to give that every time it is needed. In exchange lads like Kachunga and Sheehan will organise the tactical side of the play, setting the press and directing play. We need both kinds of leadership on the pitch.

Finding a hard, organising centre half who is okay enough with his feet to play for Evatt will be an ask. The midfielder might be easier, if that's even what Evatt meant (as Worthy said earlier).

[BWFC_Insane]

We don't need players who can do the same things. We need a balanced squad. If we can't find all round players then the squad needs a balance between those who can play football and those who bring the other requisite qualities. Just like every bloody squad in football outside maybe top 2 in English football!

That's exactly what we have.

Baka =/= Doyle =/= Kachunga =/= Dapo =/= Izzy and so on. Same in midfield, we have different kinds of players throughout the squad. If you want 22 different talented leaders you're in for a world of disappointment at this level or any other.

MJ can scrap and play football - that's why Evatt rates him, because he can do both. You are not going to change how Evatt approaches the game - it isn't happening.

I'd love a proper wrecker of a player in this side, but he would also have to be able to pass a football or there is no point.

You loved Sarcevic. I believe you thought he was our best player (I may be wrong). He wasn't getting a new contract. That was because he couldn't play well enough on the ball for Evatt to have him as a regular starter.

I'm not trying to give an opinion as to what I would personally do if I were a football manager, but Evatt was going to release the player you rated most highly because he wasn't good enough in possession. You have to be realistic about what this manager needs from players.

Evatt has had two summer windows and made a right old mess of them both. So I don’t think what he believes comes into it. We can all see the deficiencies in the side. They need fixing. If he can’t afford those that can do it all we have to sign those that can add the qualities we lack.

It’s as simple as that. The manager has to be realistic about what is available to him. He’s assembled the squad he wanted and it’s lacking. He has the chance to fix it but can’t do that just signing more of the same. Our midfield is lightweight in the extreme. Has to be fixed. Another nice passer who can’t do the dirty work won’t improve us.