Dougie Freedman - New Manager

[BL3]

Our wage bill is currently dwarfing those of most of the Championship, so if it wasn't an excuse for Coyle, why is it an excuse for Freedman?

Because most of the players on high wages are still Coyle's signings? You can't exactly slash wages mid season and expect things to go well and the team to be happy about it. Not defending Freedman at all, but as far as I'm aware it's still the people signed under Coyle that are earning the most.

That's not the point. If the argument is that players earning higher wages than those they are competing against should be better than their opponents, then why isn't Freedman doing better with players who are earning considerably more than most of the other players in the Championship? If the argument is that Freedman can't work with someone else's signings than why the f**k did we appoint him?

[BWFC_Insane]

Our wage bill is currently dwarfing those of most of the Championship, so if it wasn't an excuse for Coyle, why is it an excuse for Freedman?

Because most of the players on high wages are still Coyle's signings? You can't exactly slash wages mid season and expect things to go well and the team to be happy about it. Not defending Freedman at all, but as far as I'm aware it's still the people signed under Coyle that are earning the most.

That's not the point. If the argument is that players earning higher wages than those they are competing against should be better than their opponents, then why isn't Freedman doing better with players who are earning considerably more than most of the other players in the Championship? If the argument is that Freedman can't work with someone else's signings than why the f**k did we appoint him?

But what if the particular combination of players Coyle assembled, just lacked the right mentality, determination, spirit, physical presence or whatever to do well under ANY manager? I mean that is definitely possible.

QPR for example have improved under Redknapp but nowhere near as much as their fans expected or more accurately hoped. Now Redknapp has said there were too many uninterested players on too much money there. So I guess what I'm asking is, is there not the remotest possibility that a squad can be assembled that just doesn't have the right balance to do well, even if it is highly rated and highly paid?

[BL3]

But what we needed was players to come in and do a job THERE and THEN. Sure if he'd spent far less than he did, we could say that was ok. But 7M on Sordell and NGog given their contributions to keeping us up, was a shocking use of resources at the time.

And to further the point re Sordell, yes we know why he wasn't playing. But Coyle had him for far longer than Freedman has, so why wasn't Coyle doing the fitness and off the field work Dougie is to enable Sordell to be on the pitch? It's even worse when you consider Coyle was the one who spent the £3M on him, yet didn't appear to be doing anything to rectify the situation!

How do you know he wasn't doing anything to 'rectify the situation'? How do you know it was just fitness that was preventing him from playing? It's well documented that he couldn't settle and wanted to go back down south. He didn't want to be here and maybe Coyle thought he needed players who were mentally fit for the challenge.

Sordell was a last minute signing on deadline day. The deal was one of the last if not the last to go through that night. We signed him after we'd had bids for Zaha, Hoilett, Powell, etc, turned down. It was either spend the money or don't. If Coyle had known that the player was going to have problems settling, perhaps he wouldn't have spent the money but how would that have benefitted us?

[BL3]

I think that people are jumping on Freedman's back because he's not working miracles, and that's exactly what we need. We're an average squad with bloated wages and I honestly can't see us going up, this season or next, without a clearout and some new, good talent, signings.

We need 'miracles' now. We didn't when he first arrived. There were 33 games left.

We are not an 'average squad'. Far from it. Certainly not compared to the likes of Barnsley, Huddersfield, Ipswich, Peterborough, Sheffield Wednesday, etc. None of whom we've managed to beat under Freedman.

[BWFC_Insane]

But what we needed was players to come in and do a job THERE and THEN. Sure if he'd spent far less than he did, we could say that was ok. But 7M on Sordell and NGog given their contributions to keeping us up, was a shocking use of resources at the time.

And to further the point re Sordell, yes we know why he wasn't playing. But Coyle had him for far longer than Freedman has, so why wasn't Coyle doing the fitness and off the field work Dougie is to enable Sordell to be on the pitch? It's even worse when you consider Coyle was the one who spent the £3M on him, yet didn't appear to be doing anything to rectify the situation!

How do you know he wasn't doing anything to 'rectify the situation'? How do you know it was just fitness that was preventing him from playing? It's well documented that he couldn't settle and wanted to go back down south. He didn't want to be here and maybe Coyle thought he needed players who were mentally fit for the challenge.

Sordell was a last minute signing on deadline day. The deal was one of the last if not the last to go through that night. We signed him after we'd had bids for Zaha, Hoilett, Powell, etc, turned down. It was either spend the money or don't. If Coyle had known that the player was going to have problems settling, perhaps he wouldn't have spent the money but how would that have benefitted us?

Sordell has said himself he was never fit previously and Dougie has put him on a separate fitness program to get his fitness levels up to scratch. 4 sessions a day apparently. And I suspect it has the added benefit of keeping him busy and off bloody twitter!

I just think it seems like Dougie came in and spoke to Sordell found out why he wasn't playing and devised a plan to get him on the pitch and at his best.

Coyle had a lot of time to do that, including a pre-season but never managed it. Sordell seems to be enjoying it here now. And surely that has to be down to better man management in this particular case?

[boltonboris]

But what we needed was players to come in and do a job THERE and THEN. Sure if he'd spent far less than he did, we could say that was ok. But 7M on Sordell and NGog given their contributions to keeping us up, was a shocking use of resources at the time.

And to further the point re Sordell, yes we know why he wasn't playing. But Coyle had him for far longer than Freedman has, so why wasn't Coyle doing the fitness and off the field work Dougie is to enable Sordell to be on the pitch? It's even worse when you consider Coyle was the one who spent the £3M on him, yet didn't appear to be doing anything to rectify the situation!

How do you know he wasn't doing anything to 'rectify the situation'? How do you know it was just fitness that was preventing him from playing? It's well documented that he couldn't settle and wanted to go back down south. He didn't want to be here and maybe Coyle thought he needed players who were mentally fit for the challenge.

Sordell was a last minute signing on deadline day. The deal was one of the last if not the last to go through that night. We signed him after we'd had bids for Zaha, Hoilett, Powell, etc, turned down. It was either spend the money or don't. If Coyle had known that the player was going to have problems settling, perhaps he wouldn't have spent the money but how would that have benefitted us?

Who were all midfielders....

[BL3]

Sordell has said himself he was never fit previously and Dougie has put him on a separate fitness program to get his fitness levels up to scratch. I just think it seems like Dougie came in and spoke to Sordell found out why he wasn't playing and devised a plan to get him on the pitch and at his best.
Coyle had a lot of time to do that, including a pre-season but never managed it. Sordell seems to be enjoying it here now. And surely that has to be down to better man management in this particular case?

Coyle got the best out of Elmander who had previously mastered the art of falling over, grinning and giving the thumbs up, and precious little else. Coyle turned him into the player we paid the best part of £10M for. So why wouldn't he do the same for Sordell? He wasn't fit because he wasn't playing, and he wasn't playing because he didn't want to be here. Perhaps Coyle thought his time would be better spent focusing on the job in hand rather than baby-sitting Sordell.

[officer_dibble]

Coyle got lucky with stu holdz...a one man midfield. When he went we turned shit. Coyle was clueless throughout.

[BL3]

Who were all midfielders....

The ones i named are. They weren't the only ones we were in for. We even tried to take Sturridge back on loan.

[BL3]

I thought it was £8.5M?

Braaten went the other way and his value would have been the balance. Either way, it's the best part of £10M.

[SmokinFrazier]

We're an average squad with bloated wages and I honestly can't see us going up, this season or next, without a clearout and some new, good talent, signings.

Our second team outplayed the strongest Everton team, and Sunderland twice. Everton are challenging for Europe this season, and possibly the Champions League, yet everyone agrees we were the better side. We outplayed a very good Sunderland team too.

The players rumoured to be leaving us this transfer window were Chungy, N'Gog and Alonso. All three of those players were wanted by mid-table Premier League sides. N'Gog, by the way, can't even get a game for us at the moment and many of our fans would prefer him to be second or third choice. The one player who we got rid of was Petrov, who went to La Liga, which is possibly the best league in the world. He couldn't get a game for us and left because he wanted game time.

Is that the sign of an "average" team? Of course it's not.

We have the quality. What we lack - and it's something neither Coyle or Freedman have managed to do - is instill the right mentality in them. This is a Premier League quality side and it'd be foolish to get rid of the team we've got and replace them with Championship level players. We just a manager who can get the most of what we have.

[BWFC_Insane]

We're an average squad with bloated wages and I honestly can't see us going up, this season or next, without a clearout and some new, good talent, signings.

Our second team outplayed the strongest Everton team, and Sunderland twice. Everton are challenging for Europe this season, and possibly the Champions League, yet everyone agrees we were the better side. We outplayed a very good Sunderland team too.

The players rumoured to be leaving us this transfer window were Chungy, N'Gog and Alonso. All three of those players were wanted by mid-table Premier League sides. N'Gog, by the way, can't even get a game for us at the moment and many of our fans would prefer him to be second or third choice. The one player who we got rid of was Petrov, who went to La Liga, which is possibly the best league in the world. He couldn't get a game for us and left because he wanted game time.

Is that the sign of an "average" team? Of course it's not.

We have the quality. What we lack - and it's something neither Coyle or Freedman have managed to do - is instill the right mentality in them. This is a Premier League quality side and it'd be foolish to get rid of the team we've got and replace them with Championship level players. We just a manager who can get the most of what we have.

I think using FA cup games to "demonstrate" quality is dodgy ground to be on.

If you have assembled a mentally weak group I don't think you can just rock up and "inject the right mentality". It doesn't come in a syringe.

The club has been on a downer for over 2 years. The squad didn't seem to have the right sort of mental make-up or balance in it to reverse that.

It's been widely commented that we don't have any leaders on the pitch. You can't just "create that".

Over the past 2 years we've lost too many games and not won enough. Thats the bottom line so this squad has not achieved at any point in its existence. We can keep saying how good we think the players are, but they haven't proven it. As said it may be that introducing a few different characters and types fixes the problems, and lets hope so.

But I think when you've suffered the downwards spiral we have it's dangerous to continually think a squad that as a unit has never performed to the standards required "suddenly will".

[thebish]

But I think when you've suffered the downwards spiral we have it's dangerous to continually think a squad that as a unit has never performed to the standards required "suddenly will".

it would be remiss of me to point out that you used to believe that just a bit of organisation from just about any half competent manager would turn the whole ship around on a thrupenny bit...

[Hoboh]

Our wage bill is currently dwarfing those of most of the Championship, so if it wasn't an excuse for Coyle, why is it an excuse for Freedman?

Because most of the players on high wages are still Coyle's signings? You can't exactly slash wages mid season and expect things to go well and the team to be happy about it. Not defending Freedman at all, but as far as I'm aware it's still the people signed under Coyle that are earning the most.

That's not the point. If the argument is that players earning higher wages than those they are competing against should be better than their opponents, then why isn't Freedman doing better with players who are earning considerably more than most of the other players in the Championship? If the argument is that Freedman can't work with someone else's signings than why the f**k did we appoint him?

I'm not Freedmans biggest fan by any stretch BL3 (in fact I'm rapidly moving into he's a Megson mk11 camp) but just because someone gets paid shedloads more it don't follow they are shedloads better having experienced lesser paid underlings who were far more competent than their bosses. Where I totally agree with you is the fact Freedman was appointed to deliver a lot better than Coyle which he is failing to do. The other option is of course that Gartsides finger is so far off the pulse that he didn't realise what a feckin' mess the club was in so the reality is he should bleedin' well go! I tweeted him the other night asking him when he was resigning but I guess he ain't got round to replying yet

[Prufrock]

Our wage bill is currently dwarfing those of most of the Championship, so if it wasn't an excuse for Coyle, why is it an excuse for Freedman?

Because most of the players on high wages are still Coyle's signings? You can't exactly slash wages mid season and expect things to go well and the team to be happy about it. Not defending Freedman at all, but as far as I'm aware it's still the people signed under Coyle that are earning the most.

That's not the point. If the argument is that players earning higher wages than those they are competing against should be better than their opponents, then why isn't Freedman doing better with players who are earning considerably more than most of the other players in the Championship? If the argument is that Freedman can't work with someone else's signings than why the f**k did we appoint him?

I'm not Freedmans biggest fan by any stretch BL3 (in fact I'm rapidly moving into he's a Megson mk11 camp) but just because someone gets paid shedloads more it don't follow they are shedloads better having experienced lesser paid underlings who were far more competent than their bosses. Where I totally agree with you is the fact Freedman was appointed to deliver a lot better than Coyle which he is failing to do. The other option is of course that Gartsides finger is so far off the pulse that he didn't realise what a feckin' mess the club was in so the reality is he should bleedin' well go! I tweeted him the other night asking him when he was resigning but I guess he ain't got round to replying yet

What's up, Hobes? They kicked you off mumsnet?

[SmokinFrazier]

Yes, but that does happen in football, a supposedly weaker side living up to the challenge. I imagine if we were still in the EPL and met those two sides, we wouldn't have fared quite so well. You could also argue that our players just aren't motivated or willing to fight for the club, but the reason I am being so scathing about our mediocrity is that for the past season and a half we've been performing poorly (overall). Whether we played well against Everton and Sunderland is moot, we need to be doing it on a regular basis and against supposedly easier opposition in an easier league. Not to mention as Insane said, cup games being used to reflect quality is pretty dodgy ground.

Not really. I think there are cases when a team goes on a good cup run with a couple of giant killings, but we outplayed Everton and Sunderland. You might point to examples like Bradford against Wigan, Arsenal and Villa, but Bradford rode their luck in a ridiculous way. We didn't. We just kept it simple and outplayed two very good sides. It wasn't like we played our best 11 and they battled doggedly for 90 minutes and scraped a 1-0, we showed our quality.

Saying we don't have a good squad is oversimplistic. We do have a good squad but the issue is, they aren't used to playing against Championship teams and they might lack certain qualities which suit this league. As far as actual talent goes, I have no worries about our squad. If we were in the Premier League right now, I don't think we'd be bottom of the table.

Chungy I can understand, we're lucky to have kept him, but I'll be surprised if he's ever the player he was pre-injury just because it was so horrific. Alonso has been on a decent run of form in the past few weeks, but I still thought it was ridiculous to be linked to PL teams. A few decent to good games does not make him a good player so I'm reserving judgement until he's had more of a run. And don't tell me you actually believe that Fulham were interested in NGog? It was your typical transfer window rumour nonsense, with varying values that were supposedly tabled. I never saw any reliable report on it other than Daily Fail, SSN (who link everyone to anyone) and a few other tabloids Even if he was courted by Fulham I'd still rate him as average and be very surprised if he would have made an impact there. He may hold the ball up well and show the very occasional flash of brilliance, but his inconsistency makes him an average player for me. As for Petrov I was kind of glad he left just simply for monetary reasons; he wasn't performing and on pretty high wages.

Regardless of what you think of these players, they were linked to transfers to much bigger clubs. Alonso and Chungy were both rumoured to be off, and Nixon, the best source for Bolton news, confirmed several times that N'Gog was wanted by Fulham but an offer couldn't be reached.

Think about it; if a good club like Fulham, who have millions to throw around, are after possibly our third choice striker, what does that say about us as a club? It says that we have depth. Fulham and Fiorentina weren't after N'Gog and Alonso because they're useless players, it's because they believe they could do a job at a high level. How many other teams in the Championship could sell their second/third choice players to some of the biggest clubs in the best leagues in the world?

[Wandering Willy]

Regardless of what you think of these players, they were linked to transfers to much bigger clubs. Alonso and Chungy were both rumoured to be off, and Nixon, the best source for Bolton news, confirmed several times that N'Gog was wanted by Fulham but an offer couldn't be reached.

[CrazyHorse]

CrackSmoker.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yes, but that does happen in football, a supposedly weaker side living up to the challenge. I imagine if we were still in the EPL and met those two sides, we wouldn't have fared quite so well. You could also argue that our players just aren't motivated or willing to fight for the club, but the reason I am being so scathing about our mediocrity is that for the past season and a half we've been performing poorly (overall). Whether we played well against Everton and Sunderland is moot, we need to be doing it on a regular basis and against supposedly easier opposition in an easier league. Not to mention as Insane said, cup games being used to reflect quality is pretty dodgy ground.

Not really. I think there are cases when a team goes on a good cup run with a couple of giant killings, but we outplayed Everton and Sunderland. You might point to examples like Bradford against Wigan, Arsenal and Villa, but Bradford rode their luck in a ridiculous way. We didn't. We just kept it simple and outplayed two very good sides. It wasn't like we played our best 11 and they battled doggedly for 90 minutes and scraped a 1-0, we showed our quality.

Saying we don't have a good squad is oversimplistic. We do have a good squad but the issue is, they aren't used to playing against Championship teams and they might lack certain qualities which suit this league. As far as actual talent goes, I have no worries about our squad. If we were in the Premier League right now, I don't think we'd be bottom of the table.

Chungy I can understand, we're lucky to have kept him, but I'll be surprised if he's ever the player he was pre-injury just because it was so horrific. Alonso has been on a decent run of form in the past few weeks, but I still thought it was ridiculous to be linked to PL teams. A few decent to good games does not make him a good player so I'm reserving judgement until he's had more of a run. And don't tell me you actually believe that Fulham were interested in NGog? It was your typical transfer window rumour nonsense, with varying values that were supposedly tabled. I never saw any reliable report on it other than Daily Fail, SSN (who link everyone to anyone) and a few other tabloids Even if he was courted by Fulham I'd still rate him as average and be very surprised if he would have made an impact there. He may hold the ball up well and show the very occasional flash of brilliance, but his inconsistency makes him an average player for me. As for Petrov I was kind of glad he left just simply for monetary reasons; he wasn't performing and on pretty high wages.

Regardless of what you think of these players, they were linked to transfers to much bigger clubs. Alonso and Chungy were both rumoured to be off, and Nixon, the best source for Bolton news, confirmed several times that N'Gog was wanted by Fulham but an offer couldn't be reached.

Think about it; if a good club like Fulham, who have millions to throw around, are after possibly our third choice striker, what does that say about us as a club? It says that we have depth. Fulham and Fiorentina weren't after N'Gog and Alonso because they're useless players, it's because they believe they could do a job at a high level. How many other teams in the Championship could sell their second/third choice players to some of the biggest clubs in the best leagues in the world?

Let's get this straight. Fulham offered a nominal loan fee to take NGog on loan. Less that five hundred thousand.

Fiorentina were so sure on Alonso they wouldn't even match the 600K asking price to get him.

Nobody bid for LCY.

So let's get it in proportion. We had interest in a couple of players from higher placed clubs, but in neither case were they prepared to pay anything close to millions of pounds. In fact quite the opposite!

EDIT: And Norwich a premiership club actually signed Becchio from Leeds, who has spent quite a bit of time on the Leeds bench this season. Does that make the Leeds squad ace?

[bristol_Wanderer3]

The problem with our squad, for all that we have players of Premiership quality in it, is that we don't have the right players for this league in key positions, namely through the spine of the side.

Bogdan, Ream, Knight are always good to concede a goal. Spearing, Andrews, Vela, Pratley are all prob average League 1 players...and they give us an average League 1 level of possession, and none of our strike force score goals, which for me is the main issue. Sordell and Craig Davies may turn out to be an improvement but SKD, Ngog, Afobe (whilst he was here) just do not finish off chances that CYL, Mark Davies and Eagles (who are all arguably Prem quality) create. So we basically struggle to score many and are always likely to let in one or two...which is reflected in a lot of 1-0 and 2-1 defeats.

Freedman cannot resolve these issues in one winter transfer window. He needs to find the right characters and right players to strengthen the spine of our side for this league. Holden, Wheater, Mills, Medo may be part of the answer. However, until this is sorted we cannot expect much from this squad, and we have to hope we can stay up and mount a challenge next year whilst we are still in the upper tier of parachute payments.