A boot up The Cobblers? Northampton away, Tues Oct first 19-45.

[GhostoftheBok]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we'd do anything other than go to Brum to win. The aim should be to win every game, regardless of the competition. That's the point of the sport.

[Worthy4England]

Agree with the middle bit. I don't think we have a plan that encompasses "play for a point" - so in that sense, I think we're good. We only lost 2? big league games (against the rest of the top 6) last season and I don't think we were playing for a point in either. Derby away, their keeper made some excellent saves, we had chances to win that. POffs we lost two out of three, which wasn't great, but had done just enough at Barnsley to see us through that nervous finish at home.

I think there's a world of difference between expecting to win vs playing to win and accepting that a draw wouldn't be the worst result.

My point was more about mindset. We have to not be of the mindset that walloping some lower mid table sides then losing to Birmingham, Rotherham etc is ok. That won’t cut it. We might lose some games but we shouldn’t be thinking ‘ah well’. We should be absolutely itching to go to Birmingham and win. Doesn’t mean we will but teams that go up tend to find a way more often than not even against the best sides.

Rotherham, Peterborough, Huddersfield...all below us....

So we've already been walloped by a team in the bottom half!

We should treat every game as one we want to win. But let's be fair pretty much any loss can be put down to mindset, bottle, desire etc.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

To an outsider, a lot of this conversation may seem a little like splitting hairs - angels on the head of a pin stuff.

But it matters, and here’s why, as I see it.

After we lost in the 2023 playoff semis there was much discussion over whether we “had” to get promotion in 2024. Some said yes, but others said it depended on context - an unlucky loss in the playoff final (such as Barnsley, having beat us, subsequently suffered to Sheff Wed with a late late Wembley winner) might be alright.

But then we weren’t unlucky at Wembley. We were shit, and frankly we didn’t handle it well at all with the uncertainty over Evatt and then the poor start to the season.

I mention all this again contextually, because we have to measure ourselves against the best in the league. We have to believe we can do them over. It might not happen - Birmingham are playing like a team assembled on a Championship budget - but we have to take down some big names.

I also said before the fact that Evatt might be forgiven for not beating Huddersfield, because they’re a big team we can’t expect to beat. Again we were shit and personally I lost faith. He's building it back bit by bit - just keep winning - but I think he needs some big wins against big names to really quash the worries.

[knobpolisher]

Interestingly Portsmouth , last years big team, are struggling big time. They got walloped tonight when Stoke put 6 past them , and they have 4 points from 8 and are currently winless.
Whereas Oxford who finished 20 points behind Portsmouth are riding mid-table high with 11 points including 3 wins.
Big names and past reputations count not a jot , as we have found, go out and always try to beat what's in front of you wether that be Birmingham or Burton .

[TANGODANCER]

I also said before the fact that Evatt might be forgiven for not beating Huddersfield, because they’re a big team we can’t expect to beat. Again we were shit and personally I lost faith. He's building it back bit by bit - just keep winning - but I think he needs some big wins against big names to really quash the worries.

Us and 23 other managers of course. It's all still a lottery but when we get cups and internationals out of the way the fog may clear a bit. Till then, Que Sera Sera....

[Worthy4England]

To an outsider, a lot of this conversation may seem a little like splitting hairs - angels on the head of a pin stuff.

But it matters, and here’s why, as I see it.

After we lost in the 2023 playoff semis there was much discussion over whether we “had” to get promotion in 2024. Some said yes, but others said it depended on context - an unlucky loss in the playoff final (such as Barnsley, having beat us, subsequently suffered to Sheff Wed with a late late Wembley winner) might be alright.

But then we weren’t unlucky at Wembley. We were shit, and frankly we didn’t handle it well at all with the uncertainty over Evatt and then the poor start to the season.

I mention all this again contextually, because we have to measure ourselves against the best in the league. We have to believe we can do them over. It might not happen - Birmingham are playing like a team assembled on a Championship budget - but we have to take down some big names.

I also said before the fact that Evatt might be forgiven for not beating Huddersfield, because they’re a big team we can’t expect to beat. Again we were shit and personally I lost faith. He's building it back bit by bit - just keep winning - but I think he needs some big wins against big names to really quash the worries.

A decent post, mate. I think the real problem I have, is we probably won't know if he's sorted out the "Wembley thing" in his head, until such time as it occurs, which if we don't make the top 2 - could be at the end of the season. I think you and I are in a similar place on the Wembley thing - no point blaming Santos or Sheehan, if our set-up didn't provide any alternative to plan A, which they sussed out very well (on the day).

2023, I think despite various posts about the "championship credentials" of our then squad, I was ok with our showing, never at any risk of returning to L2, late burst of activity had us wondering about outside chance of the Play-offs, in the event a good chunk outside them.

2024, a chunk more stuff about our "championship credentials" and a near miss, but for me there's more to that than just the near miss. We shat ourselves for 30 minutes at home to Barnsley in the semi and had to go "muck and nettles" to dig that one out, despite taking a 2-0 lead into the home leg and being 2-1 up in the return at HT.

I don't "dislike" Evatt. When Megson went, it was as toxic as I can recall at Bolton. We could go into January top, for all I know, but underneath that, I'm not convinced than when thrown a few curve balls, he'll have enough nous to make the difference. The real problem for me is it's unlikely to show itself, until it's too late. A series of wins on a catch-up isn't going to get that nagging doubt away, ever, for me.

[BWFC_Insane]

To an outsider, a lot of this conversation may seem a little like splitting hairs - angels on the head of a pin stuff.

But it matters, and here’s why, as I see it.

After we lost in the 2023 playoff semis there was much discussion over whether we “had” to get promotion in 2024. Some said yes, but others said it depended on context - an unlucky loss in the playoff final (such as Barnsley, having beat us, subsequently suffered to Sheff Wed with a late late Wembley winner) might be alright.

But then we weren’t unlucky at Wembley. We were shit, and frankly we didn’t handle it well at all with the uncertainty over Evatt and then the poor start to the season.

I mention all this again contextually, because we have to measure ourselves against the best in the league. We have to believe we can do them over. It might not happen - Birmingham are playing like a team assembled on a Championship budget - but we have to take down some big names.

I also said before the fact that Evatt might be forgiven for not beating Huddersfield, because they’re a big team we can’t expect to beat. Again we were shit and personally I lost faith. He's building it back bit by bit - just keep winning - but I think he needs some big wins against big names to really quash the worries.

A decent post, mate. I think the real problem I have, is we probably won't know if he's sorted out the "Wembley thing" in his head, until such time as it occurs, which if we don't make the top 2 - could be at the end of the season. I think you and I are in a similar place on the Wembley thing - no point blaming Santos or Sheehan, if our set-up didn't provide any alternative to plan A, which they sussed out very well (on the day).

2023, I think despite various posts about the "championship credentials" of our then squad, I was ok with our showing, never at any risk of returning to L2, late burst of activity had us wondering about outside chance of the Play-offs, in the event a good chunk outside them.

2024, a chunk more stuff about our "championship credentials" and a near miss, but for me there's more to that than just the near miss. We shat ourselves for 30 minutes at home to Barnsley in the semi and had to go "muck and nettles" to dig that one out, despite taking a 2-0 lead into the home leg and being 2-1 up in the return at HT.

I don't "dislike" Evatt. When Megson went, it was as toxic as I can recall at Bolton. We could go into January top, for all I know, but underneath that, I'm not convinced than when thrown a few curve balls, he'll have enough nous to make the difference. The real problem for me is it's unlikely to show itself, until it's too late. A series of wins on a catch-up isn't going to get that nagging doubt away, ever, for me.

As the kids say….THIS.

[TANGODANCER]

ve balls, he'll have enough nous to make the difference. The real problem for me is it's unlikely to show itself, until it's too late. A series of wins on a catch-up isn't going to get that nagging doubt away, ever, for me.

Not sure why you can't accept that nothing is carved in stone certain, ever. If it were, all the bookies would be out of a job and no manager will ever sign a contract guaranteeing success. It just doesn't happen.

[Worthy4England]

ve balls, he'll have enough nous to make the difference. The real problem for me is it's unlikely to show itself, until it's too late. A series of wins on a catch-up isn't going to get that nagging doubt away, ever, for me.

Not sure why you can't accept that nothing is carved in stone certain, ever. If it were, all the bookies would be out of a job and no manager will ever sign a contract guaranteeing success. It just doesn't happen.

I'll save Insano, as I wrote that. It's nowt really to do with acceptance. The fact that bookies are in a job, tells you there's ways of improving your odds. What we know, that needs no tea leaf reading is that three teams will go up, three will go down and the question is, if you roll the dice, do you improve your score.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

We could go into January top, for all I know, but underneath that, I'm not convinced than when thrown a few curve balls, he'll have enough nous to make the difference. The real problem for me is it's unlikely to show itself, until it's too late. A series of wins on a catch-up isn't going to get that nagging doubt away, ever, for me.

Indeed. The (very welcome) upturn has come from reverting to the previous plan. I’ve said before that Evatt has proven himself capable several times of formulating new ways to win, but only over time, not in the heat of battle. Like you, I worry that that’s still there - the potential to get worked out. If we do hit target and get promoted, we will have to find a lot of answers to a lot of hard questions next season - and I don’t think it’d take many losses for doubts to reappear.

What would help is big clever wins in big games. Meantime we have to keep mopping up the wins in the others. Going well so far.

[BWFC_Insane]

We could go into January top, for all I know, but underneath that, I'm not convinced than when thrown a few curve balls, he'll have enough nous to make the difference. The real problem for me is it's unlikely to show itself, until it's too late. A series of wins on a catch-up isn't going to get that nagging doubt away, ever, for me.

Indeed. The (very welcome) upturn has come from reverting to the previous plan. I’ve said before that Evatt has proven himself capable several times of formulating new ways to win, but only over time, not in the heat of battle. Like you, I worry that that’s still there. If we do hit target and get promoted, we will have to find a lot of answers to a lot of hard questions next season - and I don’t think it’d take many losses for doubts to reappear.

What would help is big clever wins in big games. Meantime we have to keep mopping up the wins in the others. Going well so far.

We’ve gone back to the old system but not the old plan. We’ve gone much more direct and got the ball forward far quicker. This has for me been what’s helped. Very good strikers getting the ball in dangerous areas without defences set.

I do think if we keep playing like this and don’t revert to the old slow, presictable possession we should be right up there because in attacking areas I don’t think many, if any match us. Defensively I have some questions but we will at least cut out the goals we concede through messing about trying to play out from the back.

Our last two games and parts of reading the football was far more entertaining because we focussed on getting it into dangerous areas. The Thomason goal a good example, Sheehan puts it over the top early. I’m not sure it was a specific deliberate ball, but just turn them round and hope one of the runners gets it. I don’t mean that in a negative way, it was a very skilled ball but it was played quickly rather than making sure a runner was found and that resulted in the goal. Holding it and trying a more deliberate pass or shifting it on sideways we’d not have scored.

In my view if Evatt is prepared to play like this all season we have a much better chance, a much much better one than if we go back to always trying to have 60-70% possession.

[boltonboris]

Our last two games and parts of reading the football was far more entertaining because we focused on getting it into dangerous areas. The Thomason goal a good example, Sheehan puts it over the top early. I’m not sure it was a specific deliberate ball, but just turn them round and hope one of the runners gets it. I don’t mean that in a negative way, it was a very skilled ball but it was played quickly rather than making sure a runner was found and that resulted in the goal. Holding it and trying a more deliberate pass or shifting it on sideways we’d not have scored.

It wasn't an early pass. He had the ball for ages, probing, looking and exchanged short passes with Santos - Sorry, "messed around with it at the back". Eventually, his patience paid off, as they moved up the pitch trying to press and Thomason made his run.

[BWFC_Insane]

Our last two games and parts of reading the football was far more entertaining because we focused on getting it into dangerous areas. The Thomason goal a good example, Sheehan puts it over the top early. I’m not sure it was a specific deliberate ball, but just turn them round and hope one of the runners gets it. I don’t mean that in a negative way, it was a very skilled ball but it was played quickly rather than making sure a runner was found and that resulted in the goal. Holding it and trying a more deliberate pass or shifting it on sideways we’d not have scored.

It wasn't an early pass. He had the ball for ages, probing, looking and exchanged short passes with Santos - Sorry, "messed around with it at the back". Eventually, his patience paid off, as they moved up the pitch trying to press and Thomason made his run.

He got it back off santos turned and stuck it in behind. You can argue semantics but it’s totally different to what would have happened before where he’d have shuffled it wide the wing back would have turned round back to Toal etc etc, or we’d have worked it up the pitch to the edge of the area whilst Northampton got set.

We’ve gone more direct. Even Evatt has said so. It means the ball is getting into dangerous areas more quickly and we’ve had less possession. Let’s just hope that continues because with our quality we will score goals playing like that.

[boltonboris]

You said we got it forward quickly. He had hold of the ball for about 20 seconds, then he played the ball to Santos who gave it him back. So we actually fannied around with it at the back. And guess what, it worked.

You've seen a whole play, but only picked out the bit that supports the point you've been trying to make. It was a long ball, a good one. But it wasn't a quick one

I agree we've gone more direct, but as this goal showed, sometimes keeping the ball deep can bring a team up the pitch for us to exploit the space behind. That isn't new

[BWFC_Insane]

You said we got it forward quickly. He had hold of the ball for about 20 seconds, then he played the ball to Santos who gave it him back. So we actually fannied around with it at the back. And guess what, it worked.

You've seen a whole play, but only picked out the bit that supports the point you've been trying to make. It was a long ball, a good one. But it wasn't a quick one

I agree we've gone more direct, but as this goal showed, sometimes keeping the ball deep can bring a team up the pitch for us to exploit the space behind. That isn't new

The point is not to boot the ball anywhere immediately. Sheehan picked the ball back up from santos and injected a direct pass on his second touch that reaped rewards. It didn’t have to be perfect and it was a ball from in our half we simply wouldn’t have played early in the season. The point is that passing it sideways and backward and santos standing on the ball to ‘draw teams out’ wasn’t and hasn’t worked for a long time if ever. We started last season being direct at times and playing with tempo and then seemed to end up for long periods of the season going back to thinking we had to dominate possession over having a cutting edge.

I think the thing for me is the balance. I think we tend to look far more exciting as a side when we have lower possession. 50:50 or even 40:60. Sometimes teams will play in a way that means we dominate but my argument is we should be prepared to be more direct to turn possession over in those scenarios more as we will be more threatening forcing a team to defend their box than we will forcing them to watch us pass sideways. It’s true that some very good sides can dominate possession as a game control tactic almost every game and win a lot of games that way. ‘Tire out’ the opposition and deny them chance to attack too. We’ve seen examples of teams do that. We are just not a side suited to doing that.

[boltonboris]

The point is that passing it sideways and backward and santos standing on the ball to ‘draw teams out’ wasn’t and hasn’t worked for a long time if ever.

FFS watch it again!! That's what we did. Kept the ball, kept the ball, kept the ball. Moved it backwards to 'draw them out' and then we played.

What you are describing us not being able to do, is what we did. And it was a great pass by the way - The backspin was deliberately put on to get it to hold up for Thomason.

I do understand what you are saying about us not hitting a ball over the top, but it is a tactic we have employed many times before when we've been patient around the back. You're being selective of your memories

[BWFC_Insane]

The point is that passing it sideways and backward and santos standing on the ball to ‘draw teams out’ wasn’t and hasn’t worked for a long time if ever.

FFS watch it again!! That's what we did. Kept the ball, kept the ball, kept the ball. Moved it backwards to 'draw them out' and then we played.

What you are describing us not being able to do, is what we did. And it was a great pass by the way - The backspin was deliberately put on to get it to hold up for Thomason.

I do understand what you are saying about us not hitting a ball over the top, but it is a tactic we have employed many times before when we've been patient around the back. You're being selective of your memories

Sorry no it’s not. Long ball went forward, santos shepherded it back to the keeper. Rolled out to Sheehan who held it for 7 seconds looking for forward pass but wasn’t on, passed back to santos, back to Sheehan first time who second touch put a ball in behind. Our backline was still twenty yards from our goal.

Compare and contrast with what we’d have done earlier in the season where we’d have slowly worked it to the half way line, Northampton would have retreated and then santos would having stood on the ball for five minutes pinged a long diagonal that got us nowhere.

[Worthy4England]

Can we go with, it was an early pass when he got it back from Santos but after he'd stopped running round in his little circle and fcked about passing it backwards? Seems to cover both parts...

I don't think anyone's saying there should be no interplay. Just cut down on the excessive fcuking about that was becoming Brand Evatt.

The first goal, we've seen plenty of speculative 50 yarders out to the wings from Santos, that wasn't one such, great pass, probably shorter than usual towards a wb for Shabbi to run onto. From that they were pretty much fcked. Last year we'd have probably headed towards the goal line and pulled it back...