Taking Stock (port) ....A trip away to the neighbours. Sat Nov 9th, 3-0'clock.

[Mar]

I see George Johnston has said the players own it, they sent the staff out and had a frank discussion post match.

I wouldn't mind it if this wasn't the only time this had happened. Saying they own it and frank discussions mean nothing if we're not going to turn it around.

Stockport just got battered 5-0 and needed to respond. They did that with a 5-0 win against us. We knew they were going to have to respond and we had to be tactically astute and on our game in order to win it. Losing 5-0 suggests we were ill prepared and not up for the game.

Whatever the reason, passing around across our own box to an under pressure Matete certainly doesn't help. Nor does Sheehan not picking up his man and doing his defensive duties.


Going on a good run previously meant we should be getting excited about the prospect of getting back into contention, but we all knew that when the team had to stand up and be counted, we'd fold into ourselves and deliver another inept performance.

Just a matter of time, and that's the problem.

[officer_dibble]

The whole things just embarrassing.
Win a few games against burton, Stevenage etc
Get a game against a team in a local derby (or who consider us a local derby, whatever), or a game against a team in the top 6 who will be up for it against (lol) one of the ‘best teams in the league) and we fecking wilt.
And the wilting is getting worse every time.
You can absolutely guarantee Blackpool and Wigan will embarrass an Evatt side.

I’m so pleased it was so embarrassing today. If Sharon et al cannot see that they must be on some drugs or pissed up on tenants super strength. If you do not sack him now you are fecking mental!

[Mar]

The whole things just embarrassing.
Win a few games against burton, Stevenage etc
Get a game against a team in a local derby (or who consider us a local derby, whatever), or a game against a team in the top 6 who will be up for it against (lol) one of the ‘best teams in the league) and we fecking wilt.
And the wilting is getting worse every time.
You can absolutely guarantee Blackpool and Wigan will embarrass an Evatt side.

I’m so pleased it was so embarrassing today. If Sharon et al cannot see that they must be on some drugs or pissed up on tenants super strength. If you do not sack him now you are fecking mental!

I'm displeased with the result, but there maybe a positive that comes out that makes the decision to actually change things.

Losing in derby matches is symptomatic of Evatt's teams. We can batter the likes of Man Utd's U21's 8-1, but when we have to perform we generally fail. Maybe some good can come of this, but I suspect this is just a case of history repeating itself.

If this is a one off, then fine.

History suggests its not.

[officer_dibble]

Well yeah it isn’t in isolation this is it? I feel like it’s Deja vu x 10!

We’ve lost the last two home games to Wigan 4-0
Blackpool dicked us 4-1 last season
That’s derbies.
In ‘big’ games we managed to nearly chuck a 3-1 lead in the playoffs at home to Barnsley.
Pompey, Derby away last season.
That’s just off the top of my head.

Every time we come into a game where you think you know what we need to dig in here to win, we just don’t.

As I am sure i have said a number of times now, we need a 433, and leaders in a couple of positions. You know what, Santos might be a good defender at this level but he also might be a luxury. Sheehan looks very nice when he has the ball, but he might be a luxury.

[Mar]

Having obtained a job at the club recently, I'll probably have to deal with the fallout of this result.

Do you do the managerial office deep-clean?

(Seriously though, congrats)

I don't really want to say too much, but it's more on the admin side.

With it being a dream job and all,, I'm going to be very careful with what I say from here on out.

A big issue is dealing with results as today both as a fan and as an employee.

Congrats. Sounds like an interesting time for you.

Every time we come into a game where you think you know what we need to dig in here to win, we just don’t.

The big problem is we know we're not going to dig in to win when we feel like we have to. We probably thought that Stockport would've been easy pickings given we won 4-1 away at Stevenage, they'd played in midweek and lost 5-0.

Evatt's said we're not doing the basics right, well when we're passing about at the back unnecessarily putting pressure on ourselves for no reason then it's clear we're not even trying to do the basics. Playing out from the back is complicated and all it takes is for poor touches to cost us goals, as we've seen time and again. We don't need to gift the opposition and yet we do so frequently.

The infuriating thing is that we were one of the best teams in the league last season and we contrived to mess it up. We've made ourselves worse for a tougher league by spending more money. It was there for the taking and now it seems a bad summer transfer window has come home to roost.


Next up is Fleetwood. I hope we go out to win that one and stay in the cup as long as we can. We may as well try and salvage our season in that competition because we certainly don't look like making a decent crack at the league this year.

[truewhite15]

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

But patience, certainly among the fans, has run out. I'm not a billy-big-bollocks sort of fan - I reckon my post history probably shows that - and we don't have a God-given right to go anywhere. But this club has, historically, been a 2nd (at worst) tier club, and the aim has been stated continually throughout the management and playing staff as getting back to the 2nd tier as swiftly and as safely as possible. And the longer it takes to do that, when all the press interviews tell us that management believe we're among the best in the league etc etc, the less likely it is that that patience will return.

Over Evatt's run as boss, we've displayed a frankly alarming habit of flat-out choking in the games that mean anything, be it derbys or in terms of league placing. I can think of the Plymouth final (and the run to it), the Crawley final-day game and the Barnsley first leg last season as obvious exceptions to that. Games that meet the rule? Back-to-back 4-0 home defeats vs Wigan. Away defeats vs Blackpool, Derby, Wigan. Today vs Stockport. Away last season vs Portsmouth. Even going back as far as Evatt's first season, his side choked badly on our first "match point" against Exeter.

I want this side, this manager, to come good. I'd love it if he made us all eat our words. I want him to achieve his ambition to be the first to manage a single side through all four tiers. But...

He can offer excuses all he likes, but I'm afraid there's a very worrying pattern going on. And even I'm running out of belief that he can stop the rot.

[Mar]

I want this side, this manager, to come good. I'd love it if he made us all eat our words. I want him to achieve his ambition to be the first to manage a single side through all four tiers. But...

He can offer excuses all he likes, but I'm afraid there's a very worrying pattern going on. And even I'm running out of belief that he can stop the rot.

I'd love Evatt to come good. I can't picture that scenario however. I can't buy into the notion that he'll turn it around and take us onto the next level.

When he's spent the second most in the league and is getting out played by the likes of Villa U21's, a L2 Walsall team and a newly promoted side, then it ends up looking more and more unlikely that he'll get us up.

We've had some great moments and scored loads of goals, but this is a points game. No point scoring 100+ goals if the net result is not what the club aims to achieve (promotion).

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

He's got my respect for what he has done. I'll look fondly on his time here compared to other managers (Freedman, Lennon, Lee), but we're aiming for promotion and we need a manager and players that can deliver that. If Evatt's not looking like doing that then we need to make a change.

But patience, certainly among the fans, has run out. I'm not a billy-big-bollocks sort of fan - I reckon my post history probably shows that - and we don't have a God-given right to go anywhere. But this club has, historically, been a 2nd (at worst) tier club, and the aim has been stated continually throughout the management and playing staff as getting back to the 2nd tier as swiftly and as safely as possible. And the longer it takes to do that, when all the press interviews tell us that management believe we're among the best in the league etc etc, the less likely it is that that patience will return.

Over Evatt's run as boss, we've displayed a frankly alarming habit of flat-out choking in the games that mean anything, be it derbys or in terms of league placing. I can think of the Plymouth final (and the run to it), the Crawley final-day game and the Barnsley first leg last season as obvious exceptions to that. Games that meet the rule? Back-to-back 4-0 home defeats vs Wigan. Away defeats vs Blackpool, Derby, Wigan. Today vs Stockport. Away last season vs Portsmouth. Even going back as far as Evatt's first season, his side choked badly on our first "match point" against Exeter.

Allardyce bottled some games back in the day. Tranmere semis (2000), Ipswich in the semis (2000), Blackburn 4-1 (2001), Bury in cup (2002), Man City 6-2 (2003), but for every derby defeat or drubbing we took there was always the ability to look back fondly on us upsetting the odds against the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool. These were teams we shouldn't have been beating and yet we were. With Evatt, I don't see instances of upsetting the odds. You mentioned exceptions to us not bottling it, and i'd agree with your assessment of those games, but in reality, we should be beating Crawley, we should be beating Barnsley and not having Plymouth running away with the league.

2022-23 season had four teams finish ahead of us: Plymouth, Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Barnsley. Of those games we only managed to win against Barnsley. W1D4L3, and even the Barnsley result meant sweet FA as we promptly failed to deliver in the semis against them (to add insult to injury we did the same in the FAC).

2023-24 season had two teams finish ahead of us, great, improvement: Portsmouth and Derby. W1D1L2 with the win coming against Derby early in the season. We're not winning against teams that are 'challenging' fixtures.

This season, 9 teams ahead of us so far:
Wrexham (H) 0-0
Huddersfield (H) 0-4
Reading (H) 5-2
Birmingham (A) 2-0
Stockport (A) 5-0

So it's W1D1L3 F5A13. As predictable as you can get it, losing 0-4 against Huddersfield and needing a response led to the Reading 5-2. Maybe the kick up the backside will work against Fleetwood Town.

For the sake of sanity, we're a point behind Stockport with a game in hand. A win takes us above them onto 26 points which would put us 4th at best. We need to rise to the occasion to get promoted. It really doesn't look likely.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think he's taking us up, this year, which after last year, is an "off u pop" conditon. Five fcuking nil. .

[Harry Genshaw]

Some well reasoned posts on here and refreshing after a quick scroll through the cesspit that is X. I think we've been a supportive and patient lot at TW towers but I'd be surprised if any regular poster here still has faith that IE can get us promoted.

If he's lost the moderates amongst the support, I can only imagine, at best, the boards patience must be running short too.

[truewhite15]

I want this side, this manager, to come good. I'd love it if he made us all eat our words. I want him to achieve his ambition to be the first to manage a single side through all four tiers. But...

He can offer excuses all he likes, but I'm afraid there's a very worrying pattern going on. And even I'm running out of belief that he can stop the rot.

I'd love Evatt to come good. I can't picture that scenario however. I can't buy into the notion that he'll turn it around and take us onto the next level.

When he's spent the second most in the league and is getting out played by the likes of Villa U21's, a L2 Walsall team and a newly promoted side, then it ends up looking more and more unlikely that he'll get us up.

We've had some great moments and scored loads of goals, but this is a points game. No point scoring 100+ goals if the net result is not what the club aims to achieve (promotion).

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

He's got my respect for what he has done. I'll look fondly on his time here compared to other managers (Freedman, Lennon, Lee), but we're aiming for promotion and we need a manager and players that can deliver that. If Evatt's not looking like doing that then we need to make a change.

But patience, certainly among the fans, has run out. I'm not a billy-big-bollocks sort of fan - I reckon my post history probably shows that - and we don't have a God-given right to go anywhere. But this club has, historically, been a 2nd (at worst) tier club, and the aim has been stated continually throughout the management and playing staff as getting back to the 2nd tier as swiftly and as safely as possible. And the longer it takes to do that, when all the press interviews tell us that management believe we're among the best in the league etc etc, the less likely it is that that patience will return.

Over Evatt's run as boss, we've displayed a frankly alarming habit of flat-out choking in the games that mean anything, be it derbys or in terms of league placing. I can think of the Plymouth final (and the run to it), the Crawley final-day game and the Barnsley first leg last season as obvious exceptions to that. Games that meet the rule? Back-to-back 4-0 home defeats vs Wigan. Away defeats vs Blackpool, Derby, Wigan. Today vs Stockport. Away last season vs Portsmouth. Even going back as far as Evatt's first season, his side choked badly on our first "match point" against Exeter.

Allardyce bottled some games back in the day. Tranmere semis (2000), Ipswich in the semis (2000), Blackburn 4-1 (2001), Bury in cup (2002), Man City 6-2 (2003), but for every derby defeat or drubbing we took there was always the ability to look back fondly on us upsetting the odds against the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool. These were teams we shouldn't have been beating and yet we were. With Evatt, I don't see instances of upsetting the odds. You mentioned exceptions to us not bottling it, and i'd agree with your assessment of those games, but in reality, we should be beating Crawley, we should be beating Barnsley and not having Plymouth running away with the league.

2022-23 season had four teams finish ahead of us: Plymouth, Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Barnsley. Of those games we only managed to win against Barnsley. W1D4L3, and even the Barnsley result meant sweet FA as we promptly failed to deliver in the semis against them (to add insult to injury we did the same in the FAC).

2023-24 season had two teams finish ahead of us, great, improvement: Portsmouth and Derby. W1D1L2 with the win coming against Derby early in the season. We're not winning against teams that are 'challenging' fixtures.

This season, 9 teams ahead of us so far:
Wrexham (H) 0-0
Huddersfield (H) 0-4
Reading (H) 5-2
Birmingham (A) 2-0
Stockport (A) 5-0

So it's W1D1L3 F5A13. As predictable as you can get it, losing 0-4 against Huddersfield and needing a response led to the Reading 5-2. Maybe the kick up the backside will work against Fleetwood Town.

For the sake of sanity, we're a point behind Stockport with a game in hand. A win takes us above them onto 26 points which would put us 4th at best. We need to rise to the occasion to get promoted. It really doesn't look likely.

Agree with lots of this. We're not a million miles away, like. As you point out, one win and we're back in the "Minimum Acceptable Standard" top six. The problem is that that MAS position would see us having to fight through the playoffs again - and "fight" is the one thing that you'd worry about this side, with this leadership, actually doing.

I don't tend to subscribe to talk of things happening "in spite" of a manager all that often. But our current points tally is down to the baseline squad being a good side for the league in general, as opposed to being brilliantly managed into that position. What we lack, what we have perhaps lacked for a while, is that ineffable magic spark that the Big Sam, Todd and Rioch sides of the past had, that makes a team bigger and better than the sum of it's parts.

Maybe that will come with the reinforcements, limping their way slowly back to the pitch en masse from the treatment table. Maybe we really have just been very unlucky with injuries so far this season. I hope so. But I don't expect so.

[Worthy4England]

I want this side, this manager, to come good. I'd love it if he made us all eat our words. I want him to achieve his ambition to be the first to manage a single side through all four tiers. But...

He can offer excuses all he likes, but I'm afraid there's a very worrying pattern going on. And even I'm running out of belief that he can stop the rot.

I'd love Evatt to come good. I can't picture that scenario however. I can't buy into the notion that he'll turn it around and take us onto the next level.

When he's spent the second most in the league and is getting out played by the likes of Villa U21's, a L2 Walsall team and a newly promoted side, then it ends up looking more and more unlikely that he'll get us up.

We've had some great moments and scored loads of goals, but this is a points game. No point scoring 100+ goals if the net result is not what the club aims to achieve (promotion).

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

He's got my respect for what he has done. I'll look fondly on his time here compared to other managers (Freedman, Lennon, Lee), but we're aiming for promotion and we need a manager and players that can deliver that. If Evatt's not looking like doing that then we need to make a change.

But patience, certainly among the fans, has run out. I'm not a billy-big-bollocks sort of fan - I reckon my post history probably shows that - and we don't have a God-given right to go anywhere. But this club has, historically, been a 2nd (at worst) tier club, and the aim has been stated continually throughout the management and playing staff as getting back to the 2nd tier as swiftly and as safely as possible. And the longer it takes to do that, when all the press interviews tell us that management believe we're among the best in the league etc etc, the less likely it is that that patience will return.

Over Evatt's run as boss, we've displayed a frankly alarming habit of flat-out choking in the games that mean anything, be it derbys or in terms of league placing. I can think of the Plymouth final (and the run to it), the Crawley final-day game and the Barnsley first leg last season as obvious exceptions to that. Games that meet the rule? Back-to-back 4-0 home defeats vs Wigan. Away defeats vs Blackpool, Derby, Wigan. Today vs Stockport. Away last season vs Portsmouth. Even going back as far as Evatt's first season, his side choked badly on our first "match point" against Exeter.

Allardyce bottled some games back in the day. Tranmere semis (2000), Ipswich in the semis (2000), Blackburn 4-1 (2001), Bury in cup (2002), Man City 6-2 (2003), but for every derby defeat or drubbing we took there was always the ability to look back fondly on us upsetting the odds against the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool. These were teams we shouldn't have been beating and yet we were. With Evatt, I don't see instances of upsetting the odds. You mentioned exceptions to us not bottling it, and i'd agree with your assessment of those games, but in reality, we should be beating Crawley, we should be beating Barnsley and not having Plymouth running away with the league.

2022-23 season had four teams finish ahead of us: Plymouth, Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Barnsley. Of those games we only managed to win against Barnsley. W1D4L3, and even the Barnsley result meant sweet FA as we promptly failed to deliver in the semis against them (to add insult to injury we did the same in the FAC).

2023-24 season had two teams finish ahead of us, great, improvement: Portsmouth and Derby. W1D1L2 with the win coming against Derby early in the season. We're not winning against teams that are 'challenging' fixtures.

This season, 9 teams ahead of us so far:
Wrexham (H) 0-0
Huddersfield (H) 0-4
Reading (H) 5-2
Birmingham (A) 2-0
Stockport (A) 5-0

So it's W1D1L3 F5A13. As predictable as you can get it, losing 0-4 against Huddersfield and needing a response led to the Reading 5-2. Maybe the kick up the backside will work against Fleetwood Town.

For the sake of sanity, we're a point behind Stockport with a game in hand. A win takes us above them onto 26 points which would put us 4th at best. We need to rise to the occasion to get promoted. It really doesn't look likely.

Agree with lots of this. We're not a million miles away, like. As you point out, one win and we're back in the "Minimum Acceptable Standard" top six. The problem is that that MAS position would see us having to fight through the playoffs again - and "fight" is the one thing that you'd worry about this side, with this leadership, actually doing.

I don't tend to subscribe to talk of things happening "in spite" of a manager all that often. But our current points tally is down to the baseline squad being a good side for the league in general, as opposed to being brilliantly managed into that position. What we lack, what we have perhaps lacked for a while, is that ineffable magic spark that the Big Sam, Todd and Rioch sides of the past had, that makes a team bigger and better than the sum of it's parts.

Maybe that will come with the reinforcements, limping their way slowly back to the pitch en masse from the treatment table. Maybe we really have just been very unlucky with injuries so far this season. I hope so. But I don't expect so.

MAS = 2 points per game. Top 6 was last year, maybe.

[truewhite15]

I want this side, this manager, to come good. I'd love it if he made us all eat our words. I want him to achieve his ambition to be the first to manage a single side through all four tiers. But...

He can offer excuses all he likes, but I'm afraid there's a very worrying pattern going on. And even I'm running out of belief that he can stop the rot.

I'd love Evatt to come good. I can't picture that scenario however. I can't buy into the notion that he'll turn it around and take us onto the next level.

When he's spent the second most in the league and is getting out played by the likes of Villa U21's, a L2 Walsall team and a newly promoted side, then it ends up looking more and more unlikely that he'll get us up.

We've had some great moments and scored loads of goals, but this is a points game. No point scoring 100+ goals if the net result is not what the club aims to achieve (promotion).

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

He's got my respect for what he has done. I'll look fondly on his time here compared to other managers (Freedman, Lennon, Lee), but we're aiming for promotion and we need a manager and players that can deliver that. If Evatt's not looking like doing that then we need to make a change.

But patience, certainly among the fans, has run out. I'm not a billy-big-bollocks sort of fan - I reckon my post history probably shows that - and we don't have a God-given right to go anywhere. But this club has, historically, been a 2nd (at worst) tier club, and the aim has been stated continually throughout the management and playing staff as getting back to the 2nd tier as swiftly and as safely as possible. And the longer it takes to do that, when all the press interviews tell us that management believe we're among the best in the league etc etc, the less likely it is that that patience will return.

Over Evatt's run as boss, we've displayed a frankly alarming habit of flat-out choking in the games that mean anything, be it derbys or in terms of league placing. I can think of the Plymouth final (and the run to it), the Crawley final-day game and the Barnsley first leg last season as obvious exceptions to that. Games that meet the rule? Back-to-back 4-0 home defeats vs Wigan. Away defeats vs Blackpool, Derby, Wigan. Today vs Stockport. Away last season vs Portsmouth. Even going back as far as Evatt's first season, his side choked badly on our first "match point" against Exeter.

Allardyce bottled some games back in the day. Tranmere semis (2000), Ipswich in the semis (2000), Blackburn 4-1 (2001), Bury in cup (2002), Man City 6-2 (2003), but for every derby defeat or drubbing we took there was always the ability to look back fondly on us upsetting the odds against the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool. These were teams we shouldn't have been beating and yet we were. With Evatt, I don't see instances of upsetting the odds. You mentioned exceptions to us not bottling it, and i'd agree with your assessment of those games, but in reality, we should be beating Crawley, we should be beating Barnsley and not having Plymouth running away with the league.

2022-23 season had four teams finish ahead of us: Plymouth, Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Barnsley. Of those games we only managed to win against Barnsley. W1D4L3, and even the Barnsley result meant sweet FA as we promptly failed to deliver in the semis against them (to add insult to injury we did the same in the FAC).

2023-24 season had two teams finish ahead of us, great, improvement: Portsmouth and Derby. W1D1L2 with the win coming against Derby early in the season. We're not winning against teams that are 'challenging' fixtures.

This season, 9 teams ahead of us so far:
Wrexham (H) 0-0
Huddersfield (H) 0-4
Reading (H) 5-2
Birmingham (A) 2-0
Stockport (A) 5-0

So it's W1D1L3 F5A13. As predictable as you can get it, losing 0-4 against Huddersfield and needing a response led to the Reading 5-2. Maybe the kick up the backside will work against Fleetwood Town.

For the sake of sanity, we're a point behind Stockport with a game in hand. A win takes us above them onto 26 points which would put us 4th at best. We need to rise to the occasion to get promoted. It really doesn't look likely.

Agree with lots of this. We're not a million miles away, like. As you point out, one win and we're back in the "Minimum Acceptable Standard" top six. The problem is that that MAS position would see us having to fight through the playoffs again - and "fight" is the one thing that you'd worry about this side, with this leadership, actually doing.

I don't tend to subscribe to talk of things happening "in spite" of a manager all that often. But our current points tally is down to the baseline squad being a good side for the league in general, as opposed to being brilliantly managed into that position. What we lack, what we have perhaps lacked for a while, is that ineffable magic spark that the Big Sam, Todd and Rioch sides of the past had, that makes a team bigger and better than the sum of it's parts.

Maybe that will come with the reinforcements, limping their way slowly back to the pitch en masse from the treatment table. Maybe we really have just been very unlucky with injuries so far this season. I hope so. But I don't expect so.

MAS = 2 points per game. Top 6 was last year, maybe.

Top six is MAS because it still gives us a shot, over a three-game shootout, of getting promoted. Promotion is the ultimate target, however many points you score to get there.

Totally agree that the target at the start of the season was 2ppg, as that would usually see you top two. Wouldn't be surprised for the start of the season conversation to have been something along the lines of "we hope to see the title. We want to see 2ppg. We expect to see promotion." 6th still gives us a shot at that last one. Evatt's problem is that with each game like this one, that expectation gets a little harder to meet.

[Worthy4England]

We have three of the top eleven all time scorers in the top division. Have some fcuking pride.

We are Bolton Wanderers.

[Worthy4England]

I want this side, this manager, to come good. I'd love it if he made us all eat our words. I want him to achieve his ambition to be the first to manage a single side through all four tiers. But...

He can offer excuses all he likes, but I'm afraid there's a very worrying pattern going on. And even I'm running out of belief that he can stop the rot.

I'd love Evatt to come good. I can't picture that scenario however. I can't buy into the notion that he'll turn it around and take us onto the next level.

When he's spent the second most in the league and is getting out played by the likes of Villa U21's, a L2 Walsall team and a newly promoted side, then it ends up looking more and more unlikely that he'll get us up.

We've had some great moments and scored loads of goals, but this is a points game. No point scoring 100+ goals if the net result is not what the club aims to achieve (promotion).

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

He's got my respect for what he has done. I'll look fondly on his time here compared to other managers (Freedman, Lennon, Lee), but we're aiming for promotion and we need a manager and players that can deliver that. If Evatt's not looking like doing that then we need to make a change.

But patience, certainly among the fans, has run out. I'm not a billy-big-bollocks sort of fan - I reckon my post history probably shows that - and we don't have a God-given right to go anywhere. But this club has, historically, been a 2nd (at worst) tier club, and the aim has been stated continually throughout the management and playing staff as getting back to the 2nd tier as swiftly and as safely as possible. And the longer it takes to do that, when all the press interviews tell us that management believe we're among the best in the league etc etc, the less likely it is that that patience will return.

Over Evatt's run as boss, we've displayed a frankly alarming habit of flat-out choking in the games that mean anything, be it derbys or in terms of league placing. I can think of the Plymouth final (and the run to it), the Crawley final-day game and the Barnsley first leg last season as obvious exceptions to that. Games that meet the rule? Back-to-back 4-0 home defeats vs Wigan. Away defeats vs Blackpool, Derby, Wigan. Today vs Stockport. Away last season vs Portsmouth. Even going back as far as Evatt's first season, his side choked badly on our first "match point" against Exeter.

Allardyce bottled some games back in the day. Tranmere semis (2000), Ipswich in the semis (2000), Blackburn 4-1 (2001), Bury in cup (2002), Man City 6-2 (2003), but for every derby defeat or drubbing we took there was always the ability to look back fondly on us upsetting the odds against the likes of Man Utd, Liverpool. These were teams we shouldn't have been beating and yet we were. With Evatt, I don't see instances of upsetting the odds. You mentioned exceptions to us not bottling it, and i'd agree with your assessment of those games, but in reality, we should be beating Crawley, we should be beating Barnsley and not having Plymouth running away with the league.

2022-23 season had four teams finish ahead of us: Plymouth, Ipswich, Sheff Wed and Barnsley. Of those games we only managed to win against Barnsley. W1D4L3, and even the Barnsley result meant sweet FA as we promptly failed to deliver in the semis against them (to add insult to injury we did the same in the FAC).

2023-24 season had two teams finish ahead of us, great, improvement: Portsmouth and Derby. W1D1L2 with the win coming against Derby early in the season. We're not winning against teams that are 'challenging' fixtures.

This season, 9 teams ahead of us so far:
Wrexham (H) 0-0
Huddersfield (H) 0-4
Reading (H) 5-2
Birmingham (A) 2-0
Stockport (A) 5-0

So it's W1D1L3 F5A13. As predictable as you can get it, losing 0-4 against Huddersfield and needing a response led to the Reading 5-2. Maybe the kick up the backside will work against Fleetwood Town.

For the sake of sanity, we're a point behind Stockport with a game in hand. A win takes us above them onto 26 points which would put us 4th at best. We need to rise to the occasion to get promoted. It really doesn't look likely.

Agree with lots of this. We're not a million miles away, like. As you point out, one win and we're back in the "Minimum Acceptable Standard" top six. The problem is that that MAS position would see us having to fight through the playoffs again - and "fight" is the one thing that you'd worry about this side, with this leadership, actually doing.

I don't tend to subscribe to talk of things happening "in spite" of a manager all that often. But our current points tally is down to the baseline squad being a good side for the league in general, as opposed to being brilliantly managed into that position. What we lack, what we have perhaps lacked for a while, is that ineffable magic spark that the Big Sam, Todd and Rioch sides of the past had, that makes a team bigger and better than the sum of it's parts.

Maybe that will come with the reinforcements, limping their way slowly back to the pitch en masse from the treatment table. Maybe we really have just been very unlucky with injuries so far this season. I hope so. But I don't expect so.

MAS = 2 points per game. Top 6 was last year, maybe.

Top six is MAS because it still gives us a shot, over a three-game shootout, of getting promoted. Promotion is the ultimate target, however many points you score to get there.

Totally agree that the target at the start of the season was 2ppg, as that would usually see you top two. Wouldn't be surprised for the start of the season conversation to have been something along the lines of "we hope to see the title. We want to see 2ppg. We expect to see promotion." 6th still gives us a shot at that last one. Evatt's problem is that with each game like this one, that expectation gets a little harder to meet.

Mate, we've been dicked 5-0.

[Worthy4England]

Oh and 4-1 v Blackpool, 4-0 v Wiggin, 2-0 v Oxford, without laying a glove on 'em.. 3-1 at home to a team that I think are around the arse end of L2. Not good enough.

[Mar]

Mate, we've been dicked 5-0.

This isn't exactly the time and place to be putting things into context. Losing 5-0 is still pretty raw.

At the end of the season this 5-0 will look irrelevant if we get promoted, but that's a big if, and that's a pattern, one that's been repeated over the past three seasons. By this point we're sick of the pattern. Promotion is the aim. Time to deliver.

[boltonboris]

Felt that could happen yesterday, which is the problem. In games where the opposition get themselves up for it and want to make it hard for us, we just fold. Time and time and time again.

It’s as predictable as night following day. I said to my FIL at 0-0, we’re going to be hammered 4,5,6 here you know. I can feel it.

You could see by the energy, the shape, the way we were playing in possession. It was a feck* disgrace and one of lowest points of the last 4 seasons.

[officer_dibble]

I'm not into the personal attacks on Evatt. He's done a good job for us over the last four years, on the whole. He deserves at least a modicum of respect for that.

He's got my respect for what he has done. I'll look fondly on his time here compared to other managers (Freedman, Lennon, Lee), but we're aiming for promotion and we need a manager and players that can deliver that. If Evatt's not looking like doing that then we need to make a change.

For me as honourable as that stance is the problem the board have created by allowing this inertia to continue is that it will get personal now. Had we shook hands when we should have done in the summer everyone could look back on his tenure and say yeah he turned round the ship and got us on the right course, we all enjoyed Wembley. Finishing third in the bottom division to get promotion after all the investment really was the minimum and it’s akin to cheating on football manager so I’m not having that per se. Had we won the league then maybe it’s different.

I’m fecked off he’s been backed AGAIN to recruit badly AGAIN and there is seemingly no response by the board. So if bruising his ego gets him nearer that exit door I’m all for it. It’s fecking shit. We do the same shit time and time again, win the games we should be winning and whenever there is a test fold like a deck of cards. feck off Ian.

[BorsdaneWhite]

Was there. Not going to talk about the game. Scraps in the crowd a la Burton. Ironic chanting and incredulous humour. Best bit was a drugs dog barking at some lad’s crisps. I smiled. Oh, smiling.

Borsdane, I take it you mean the crucial away game late in Parky's second season when we got timidly beaten? I remember seeing some fistfights when we were losing at Wimbledon the beginning of the season before. In some ways I admire it - it's almost always because each protagonist loves BWFC (they just don't agree on what should happen) - but in other ways it's obviously not a good reflection on the prevailing mood...

Certainly we might all disagree. But we are all wanderers after all. I’d be sad to see violence or fighting in the crowd regardless of the reason.

I do mean that Parky episode, yes. Happened at Wembley against Stoke, too. I guess it’s a vulgar expression of rage—where the complexities of language have escaped said protagonist. It’s damned ugly, though. And it seems to happen because the fight the team needs in local “derbies” and progression-dependent knockouts is so rarely seen on the pitch. Within 40 miles of Le Mans Crescent? Here’s six points. Sick of it. And I can’t bring myself to go to Wigan or Blackpool any longer, as my back is too bloodied by previous auto-flagellations.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Some well reasoned posts on here and refreshing after a quick scroll through the cesspit that is X. I think we've been a supportive and patient lot at TW towers but I'd be surprised if any regular poster here still has faith that IE can get us promoted.

If he's lost the moderates amongst the support, I can only imagine, at best, the boards patience must be running short too.

I agree and I will echo the sentiment that it's good to read cogent, thoughtful posts (whether they're 'back or sack'). It's why I come to this site. (I've given up on participating on X, though I have to monitor it; Bluesky is much better now.)

I admire Mar's positivity that we're not far off the playoffs, so promotion is not yet shot, but I also agree with Worthy that the bar has been set higher. It's a shame and I don't dislike Evatt but I don't think he's ever going to win this battle; as I've said before, even if he won promotion (again) we'd only ever be two losses from huge loud questions about him.

I also don't think this season's over in terms of promotion - I wouldn't hire a manager to sort it out for next season, I would be asking (if perhaps not expecting) them to get us over the line this time. A fresh manager could make a hell of a lot of difference: we're ony 7pts off the autos. The problem, as noted even by those who remain hopeful, is that the pattern of collapsing under pressure keeps repeating, so finishing top-six feels a fool's errand. Who among us would bounce into May confident of promotion? Who among the players would?

One more thing. Interesting to hear George Johnston say the players shooed the coaches out. Sometimes that's to deliver their own internal b*ll*ckings – but other times it's to have a very serious conversation about whether they're all still behind the ship's captain. None of us know how that goes but either way there may be some serious chatter on the players' WhatsApp groups today.