Jaffka's gossip thread on the ins and outs at the 'Bok

[Worthy4England]

Comparing David Silva and Mark Davies is redonculous!

Ok he's never looked like scoring goals in the volume Nolan did. Which IMO is what an attacking midfield player needs to do at a club like ours in a 4-5-1.Unless we have a fantastic striker 4 goals a season from your most attack minded midfield player won't cut it!

Nolan scored an average 4 league goals a season with Bolton - not all Premier League.

Does that include the last couple of seasons where he stopped scoring and proved he had nowt else to his game.

You needed him to stop scoring the odd titty-lining goal before you realised that?

A goal every one in 6 from a prem midfielder, over 300 games, isn't a bad tally.

That last couple of seasons, included our lowest scoring season in the Prem and our third lowest scoring season in the Prem, so not just him not scoring.

Looking at our midfield last season, I don't think he'd have missed many games in comparison with what was on show.

[Wandering Willy]

A goal every one in 6 from a prem midfielder, over 300 games, isn't a bad tally.

That last couple of seasons, included our lowest scoring season in the Prem and our third lowest scoring season in the Prem, so not just him not scoring.

Looking at our midfield last season, I don't think he'd have missed many games in comparison with what was on show.

Possibly not but he didn't do that.

Nolan scored 40 in 296 league games for us, and not all Premier League.

Not even one in 7.

[Worthy4England]

A goal every one in 6 from a prem midfielder, over 300 games, isn't a bad tally.

That last couple of seasons, included our lowest scoring season in the Prem and our third lowest scoring season in the Prem, so not just him not scoring.

Looking at our midfield last season, I don't think he'd have missed many games in comparison with what was on show.

Possibly not but he didn't do that.

Nolan scored 40 in 296 league games for us, and not all Premier League.

Not even one in 7.

Any chance you could read what I put, before quoting incorrect stats at me?

Nolan scored 39 in 263 games in the Prem for us (234 starts) - that would be all in the Prem.

Fraction under 1 in 7.

He also got 7 in cup games (might have been more - can't find cup games for 2001/2) - not counted these.

He also bagged 12 in 42 Prem games for Newcastle.

By my reckoning that makes 51 in 305 games... 1 in 5.98... Which is what I said 1 in 6 for a Prem midfielder.

[Wandering Willy]

My stats are correct.

We were talking about Nolan's performances for Bolton, which if you look back in the thread I thought was obvious.

An average of 4 league goals a season is not good enough for a player who offers nothing else and considering he played in some of the best PL teams we had. He was carried by better players.

It's people like you that give Nolan a good name.

[the-Bowtun-Warrior]

Balls to stats.
Nobby WAS twice the TEAM and overall player Mavies ever will be for Bwfc - IMO

[Worthy4England]

Well, if you're allowed to make wild "he didn't do that" accusations when he has absolutely got 1 in 6 in the Prem, I can say you're stats are cack too - as they clearly are. He scored 40 in league games for us in 296 appearances - his first season at the age of 17 where he played 4 games, you appear to be counting as a full season, his second season when he was 18 and played 31 games is rather less than a full season's worth too (especially in the Championship where the season has rather more games in it). His last season when he transferred out after 20 games, you're also counting as a full season. Talk about desperate to make facts fit an ill conceived argument.

I see you've excluded the 10 in 49 appearances in other competitions just to make sure.

So you're being fairly selective.

His career tally, if you want to count from when he was 17, he's nearer a goal every 5 games.

Either way, as a Premiership midfielder he's at 1 in 6. Which as I said is a pretty decent tally for the type of midfielder that Bolton can afford.

[Worthy4England]

Balls to stats.
Nobby WAS twice the TEAM and overall player Mavies ever will be for Bwfc - IMO

By some considerable margin.

[Wandering Willy]

Well, if you're allowed to make wild "he didn't do that" accusations when he has absolutely got 1 in 6 in the Prem, I can say you're stats are cack too - as they clearly are. He scored 40 in league games for us in 296 appearances - his first season at the age of 17 where he played 4 games, you appear to be counting as a full season, his second season when he was 18 and played 31 games is rather less than a full season's worth too (especially in the Championship where the season has rather more games in it). His last season when he transferred out after 20 games, you're also counting as a full season. Talk about desperate to make facts fit an ill conceived argument.

I see you've excluded the 10 in 49 appearances in other competitions just to make sure.

So you're being fairly selective.

His career tally, if you want to count from when he was 17, he's nearer a goal every 5 games.

Either way, as a Premiership midfielder he's at 1 in 6. Which as I said is a pretty decent tally for the type of midfielder that Bolton can afford.

Once again we were talking about league goals for Bolton.

However as you seem to wish to be selective yourself, let's knock a couple of season's off because he was too young, didn't score, was just too shit to be picked or any other excuse you want to come up with.

Then by the Duckworth/Worthy rules he then has 40 league goals in 8 seasons.

That's a massive 25% increase in league goals a season from 4 to 5 - still shit for player with nothing else to his game.

[Lord Kangana]

Mavies is technically more gifted and exciting to watch.

If you asked me to pick both at their peak, and in a team that had to win, I'd have Nobby 12 times out of 10.

[BWFC_Insane]

Mavies is technically more gifted and exciting to watch.

If you asked me to pick both at their peak, and in a team that had to win, I'd have Nobby 12 times out of 10.

It's a bit worrying that im once again agreeing with LK.

Nolan when he was at his best was a master of timing runs into the box and bagging goals. Far more effective at winning us games than Mark Davies is. And that's what counts.

[Worthy4England]

Well, if you're allowed to make wild "he didn't do that" accusations when he has absolutely got 1 in 6 in the Prem, I can say you're stats are cack too - as they clearly are. He scored 40 in league games for us in 296 appearances - his first season at the age of 17 where he played 4 games, you appear to be counting as a full season, his second season when he was 18 and played 31 games is rather less than a full season's worth too (especially in the Championship where the season has rather more games in it). His last season when he transferred out after 20 games, you're also counting as a full season. Talk about desperate to make facts fit an ill conceived argument.

I see you've excluded the 10 in 49 appearances in other competitions just to make sure.

So you're being fairly selective.

His career tally, if you want to count from when he was 17, he's nearer a goal every 5 games.

Either way, as a Premiership midfielder he's at 1 in 6. Which as I said is a pretty decent tally for the type of midfielder that Bolton can afford.

Once again we were talking about league goals for Bolton.

However as you seem to wish to be selective yourself, let's knock a couple of season's off because he was too young, didn't score, was just too shit to be picked or any other excuse you want to come up with.

Then by the Duckworth/Worthy rules he then has 40 league goals in 8 seasons.

That's a massive 25% increase in league goals a season from 4 to 5 - still shit for player with nothing else to his game.

No, you're talking about league goals for Bolton, I'm not, so we're not. Because it suits you to do so and matches the argument you're looking to put forwards. We should really have a team full of Mavises, that can dribble themselves into knots, produce few assists, and manage 5 goals in three seasons (by your measurement method) - so 1 and a bit per season.

I also really don't understand this "if we take the goals away" argument. I thought the whole point of football was goals - they'd soon change the tippy tappy shite in Spain, if it didn't actually lead to goals.

I'm happy to look across Nolan's whole career and settle for 94 goals in 485 appearances (one every 5.2 games - 6.7 goals a "season") or league games only 82 in 427 (one every 5.2 games) only. I could even divide 82 league goals by 14 seasons (that's all of them he's been a player) that's 5.85 a season.

To put this stupidity into a bit on context, that's about the same as Andrei Arshavin's scoring record at Arsenal (on the same bizarre basis). Paul Scholes is down at 5 a season on the same basis. Gerrard would be at 6.35 per season. Nolan's "Prem only" record is 51 in 9 seasons so 5.66 per season

I do think it was right for us to transfer him, when we did, as by then, Megson had pretty much stopped using the centre of midfield as an attacking channel anyhow. I don't think Mavies has done anything to remotely suggest he's anywhere near as good.

But you carry on pretending that football isn't about goals, and that Nolan doesn't get many of them, and does nothing at all else. All will be well with the world.

Bit like when you could "see" that Owen Coyle was going to keep us up.

[Wandering Willy]

If you care to concentrate on what was being discussed, you will see that I responded to BWFCi's comment about the "volume" of goals Nolan scored for Bolton by pointing out to him that Nolan averaged 4 league goals a season for us.

You then complained that some of Nolan's appearances shouldn't be counted as seasons because he was too young or didn't play enough.

Apparently now I am "ignoring goals" and "pretending Nolan doesn't get many".

He got 40 in 296 league appearances for us.

It's a fact.

I know you want it to be more, but it isn't and I can't change that for you.

I can pretend you're right if it helps.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ok WW and what is Mark Davies scoring ratio for us then?

[TKIZ!]

According to the Oracle the young CB that we were after, not Mills is off somewhere else as might this Sanchez fella

[Wandering Willy]

Ok WW and what is Mark Davies scoring ratio for us then?

Not good, but not sure why you are asking me.

Let's remember, I never brought up Mark Davies in this particular discussion.

I was simply refuting the assertion that Nolan was a prolific goal scorer for us, which I took to be implied by your use of the phrase "volume of goals".

[Worthy4England]

Ok WW and what is Mark Davies scoring ratio for us then?

One and a bit per "season" - but he offers so much more, apparently.

[BWFC_Insane]

Ok WW and what is Mark Davies scoring ratio for us then?

Not good, but not sure why you are asking me.

Let's remember, I never brought up Mark Davies in this particular discussion.

I was simply refuting the assertion that Nolan was a prolific goal scorer for us, which I took to be implied by your use of the phrase "volume of goals".

So my statement that Mark Davies doesn't look like scoring the same volume of goals that Nolan did is entirely correct.

Glad we've cleared that up.

[Wandering Willy]

So my statement that Mark Davies doesn't look like scoring the same volume of goals that Nolan did is entirely correct.

Glad we've cleared that up.

No - it's opinion stated as fact.

In my opinion, if Mark Davies gets a 9 or 10 year run in the team in a 4-5-1 he'll get at least 40.

Again subjective.

[Worthy4England]

If you care to concentrate on what was being discussed, you will see that I responded to BWFCi's comment about the "volume" of goals Nolan scored for Bolton by pointing out to him that Nolan averaged 4 league goals a season for us.

You then complained that some of Nolan's appearances shouldn't be counted as seasons because he was too young or didn't play enough.

Apparently now I am "ignoring goals" and "pretending Nolan doesn't get many".

He got 40 in 296 league appearances for us.

It's a fact.

I know you want it to be more, but it isn't and I can't change that for you.

I can pretend you're right if it helps.

If you care to concentrate on my first foray into this particular debate, I said

A goal every one in 6 from a prem midfielder, over 300 games, isn't a bad tally.

That last couple of seasons, included our lowest scoring season in the Prem and our third lowest scoring season in the Prem, so not just him not scoring.

Looking at our midfield last season, I don't think he'd have missed many games in comparison with what was on show.

Which I stand by.

Nowt to do with what you want to pretend or not.

[CAPSLOCK]

Davies may as well go as the clueless Coyle is too pig headed or thick, or both, to get the best out of him

Not much more of the family silver to get shut of, now