Coyle out?

[Worthy4England]

I don't want to make excuses for some pretty woeful performances, but you cannot ignore we've had some of the worst luck. I cannot think of any club of our size who would cope well with losing their best two players to long-term injuries. Even a Club like United would be affected if they lost Rooeny and Vidic for a year and they can afford to replace them with quality back-up, we cannot.

On top of that you've got our next best player with an eye on a move elsewhere, you've got the fixture list, you've got the decline of once consistant heads like Davies/Jussi, you've lost your top two scorers from last season without getting a single penny back for either and to amend all of these problems at once, you've got about 5M to spend in the transfer window.

The way Coyle approaches things at times are questionable, sure, but who realisitcally could do much with the players we've had in the games we've had? The only result that we did not expect was the one against Norwich. I'd agree that getting shafted by the top teams isn't acceptable and we should be trying to compete, and maybe with our best players in the squad we'd have had a little more hope.

If after the next six games we are in the bottom 3 then alarm bells might start to ring but currently we are 2 points off 17th having had all the handicaps in the world against us.

It's easy to now say oh you're just making excuses, but it's not like they aren't valid excuses, any manager would have struggled to deal with the upheavel and loss of quality player. Making huge decisions, which sacking any manager would be, is not an option at this stage. We're bleeding money as it is without having to pay compensation to get rid and to bring in, new structure, new backroom, new players to suit the new managers style or whatever. And then what happens when it comes back around to this same run of fixtures in January? Do we sack that manager when we lose all of those games too?

As for replacements, not sure either Mark Hughes or Martin O'Neill would even consider touching the job. Mark Hughes left Fulham because he didn't want to get the label as a mid-table manager because he has aspirations of managing higher up the league. MON is well out of our league, probably has eyes for a top job. We'd end up with another bottom feeder. I'd rather have a bottom feeder with some potential to grow, who knows the place and the players in Coyle.

It's strange, I expected us to be on three/four points at this juncture and we are, so in one sense, I shouldn't be too disappointed. Since OC has been in charge, he's generally done pretty good and we had a decent season last year without managing to round it off well. But this defending shizz is going to cost us dear if we let it continue.

Since the cup semi, we've leaked shedloads - best part of 3 goals a game. That's not just not good enough.

I was never going to judge OC on this run of 7 games, because they were difficult, but nor will I give him some of the excuses that are being used either. We have the same defence as we had last season. We've lost Holden but added NRC. We still have Muamba, who was one of the top tacklers in the Prem last season, so as a core defensive unit with 2 DM's for games against the top clubs from last season, we aren't actually much different. Organisationally, ostensibly with just one change - NRC for Holden, we're a fecking shambles. Not just against the break - where you could point to being outnumbered etc. but from set pieces, where we've generally had time to get organised.

Looking at the attacking side, yes we lost Elmander and Sturridge, but we were always likely to lose Sturridge and not be able to replace him with anything like the same quality, so I don't buy that as an excuse. On Elmander, who I was sorry to see leave, although I think he had a poor first two seasons, I wonder what part putting your leading scorer into midfield to accommodate a loanee striker might have played, if any, in his decision to leave.

We can't use Jussi is getting older as is Davies as an excuse, they've been getting older since the day they were born - twas forever thus. We sold a goalkeeper so could have still had Al Habs to replace Jussi. Bogdan - who I thought did ok last season when he covered for Jussi, looked like he'd never seen a football.

I don't think the cost of replacing your manager is greater than what you'd lose getting relegated. So in that sense probably isn't an issue. The comparison around "do you sack your "new" Manager because he's had a bad January" is stupid. No you don't sack your manager for having a bad 4 game run. You sack your manager, because he's going to take you down, or he can't take you any further after significant investment, or he's lost the plot entirely. At the minute, we're in danger of at least two of those being the case currently.

I don't think we're at trigger point at the moment, but need to see some improvements in the next three games.

[m_taylor]

I don't want to make excuses for some pretty woeful performances, but you cannot ignore we've had some of the worst luck. I cannot think of any club of our size who would cope well with losing their best two players to long-term injuries. Even a Club like United would be affected if they lost Rooeny and Vidic for a year and they can afford to replace them with quality back-up, we cannot.

On top of that you've got our next best player with an eye on a move elsewhere, you've got the fixture list, you've got the decline of once consistant heads like Davies/Jussi, you've lost your top two scorers from last season without getting a single penny back for either and to amend all of these problems at once, you've got about 5M to spend in the transfer window.

The way Coyle approaches things at times are questionable, sure, but who realisitcally could do much with the players we've had in the games we've had? The only result that we did not expect was the one against Norwich. I'd agree that getting shafted by the top teams isn't acceptable and we should be trying to compete, and maybe with our best players in the squad we'd have had a little more hope.


If after the next six games we are in the bottom 3 then alarm bells might start to ring but currently we are 2 points off 17th having had all the handicaps in the world against us.

It's easy to now say oh you're just making excuses, but it's not like they aren't valid excuses, any manager would have struggled to deal with the upheavel and loss of quality player. Making huge decisions, which sacking any manager would be, is not an option at this stage. We're bleeding money as it is without having to pay compensation to get rid and to bring in, new structure, new backroom, new players to suit the new managers style or whatever. And then what happens when it comes back around to this same run of fixtures in January? Do we sack that manager when we lose all of those games too?

As for replacements, not sure either Mark Hughes or Martin O'Neill would even consider touching the job. Mark Hughes left Fulham because he didn't want to get the label as a mid-table manager because he has aspirations of managing higher up the league. MON is well out of our league, probably has eyes for a top job. We'd end up with another bottom feeder. I'd rather have a bottom feeder with some potential to grow, who knows the place and the players in Coyle.

I have to agree with all these points. If we are still in the bottom 3 by the time we play Wolves on the 31st December then maybe think about change. But if were to (dare i say) get relegated who would you want in charge? For me Coyle all the way. I don't think Bolton could attract a Mark Hughes type we would end up with someone like 'Megson' again.

We miss Holden massively and no-on in our midfield can run or take charge off a game like he or chungy could. Muamaba can only just pass. NRC isn't a playmaker and Eagles needs to do more for me. The only one is Mavis but we can't rely on him as he plays a good game every 20! N'gog looking good so hopefully Tuncay will start and things up front might happen. Keep the faith. These next fews games (regardless of what has happened) the players need the fans more than ever. Come on!

[jaffka]

Not for me, but I am hoping that results pick up.

Keep the faith, supporting Bolton is always a roller coaster.

[plymouth wanderer]

in coyle we trust

he'll turn it around

[Worthy4England]

I don't want to make excuses for some pretty woeful performances, but you cannot ignore we've had some of the worst luck. I cannot think of any club of our size who would cope well with losing their best two players to long-term injuries. Even a Club like United would be affected if they lost Rooeny and Vidic for a year and they can afford to replace them with quality back-up, we cannot.

On top of that you've got our next best player with an eye on a move elsewhere, you've got the fixture list, you've got the decline of once consistant heads like Davies/Jussi, you've lost your top two scorers from last season without getting a single penny back for either and to amend all of these problems at once, you've got about 5M to spend in the transfer window.

The way Coyle approaches things at times are questionable, sure, but who realisitcally could do much with the players we've had in the games we've had? The only result that we did not expect was the one against Norwich. I'd agree that getting shafted by the top teams isn't acceptable and we should be trying to compete, and maybe with our best players in the squad we'd have had a little more hope.


If after the next six games we are in the bottom 3 then alarm bells might start to ring but currently we are 2 points off 17th having had all the handicaps in the world against us.

It's easy to now say oh you're just making excuses, but it's not like they aren't valid excuses, any manager would have struggled to deal with the upheavel and loss of quality player. Making huge decisions, which sacking any manager would be, is not an option at this stage. We're bleeding money as it is without having to pay compensation to get rid and to bring in, new structure, new backroom, new players to suit the new managers style or whatever. And then what happens when it comes back around to this same run of fixtures in January? Do we sack that manager when we lose all of those games too?

As for replacements, not sure either Mark Hughes or Martin O'Neill would even consider touching the job. Mark Hughes left Fulham because he didn't want to get the label as a mid-table manager because he has aspirations of managing higher up the league. MON is well out of our league, probably has eyes for a top job. We'd end up with another bottom feeder. I'd rather have a bottom feeder with some potential to grow, who knows the place and the players in Coyle.

I have to agree with all these points. If we are still in the bottom 3 by the time we play Wolves on the 31st December then maybe think about change. But if were to (dare i say) get relegated who would you want in charge? For me Coyle all the way. I don't think Bolton could attract a Mark Hughes type we would end up with someone like 'Megson' again.

We miss Holden massively and no-on in our midfield can run or take charge off a game like he or chungy could. Muamaba can only just pass. NRC isn't a playmaker and Eagles needs to do more for me. The only one is Mavis but we can't rely on him as he plays a good game every 20! N'gog looking good so hopefully Tuncay will start and things up front might happen. Keep the faith. These next fews games (regardless of what has happened) the players need the fans more than ever. Come on!

So we'd think about a change on 31st Dec and possibly bring a new manager in to handle the transfer window and the run of games we have in Jan?

Last season, we generally played two midfielders capable of tackling - Holden and Muamba. NRC has played more passes this season than anyone else in the team and more per game than Holden last season, but a couple less tackles per game. We're currently making about 25% less tackles per game than we did last season. I think when fit, Holden and NRC might well be what we should go with, but until then, we need NRC and Muamba.

I will give OC some leeway here. We would be a better team with Holden and CYL back - without a doubt. But some of our midfield formations this season have quite frankly been ludicrous.

Oh and as much as I think CYL is one of our better players, he does not in my opinion take charge of a game. Two CM's that can tackle take charge of a game and feed CYL (and Petrov) to go do their thang.

[Prufrock]

Jimbo talks a lot of sense. Coyle wasn't Jesus last year, and he isn't shit this. Ultimately, these opening games were always going to be tough, and we were always likely to be where we are. Some of the performances have been unexpectedly shit though, Norwich, United and Chelsea particularly. I think Chelsea and United will dick a lot of teams, and they both look VERY good, but we were woeful. And woeful in needlessly basic ways. That has to improve. Norwich was a big worry, but he picked the wrong team there, and hopefully the mobility of N'Gog will be a consistent feature. We need that. We miss Elmander, we do. We miss Sturridge. We really miss Lee, no-one else has that spark, everything good we do in the final third came through him. We massively miss Holden. Heartbeat. That said, there are plenty shit teams in this league. Ability wise we are nowhere near the bottom three. What we have now is a massive test of the bottle, and that is something this said haven't shown at all since Wembley, and rarely at all under OC.

Central midfield HAS to be Muamba and NRC. NRC shining light so far this season, Muamba's hassling and harrying crucial. Wigan is massive. If we win it, we'll be fine, I'm sure of it. And we might just win it. They are wank, and worse year on year.

It's still a long way from bed sheet time.

[Armchair Wanderer]

The sky's falling in!!

[Annoyed Grunt]

The sky's falling in!!

Are you Chicken Licken/ Little?

[Armchair Wanderer]

The sky's falling in!!

Are you Chicken Licken/ Little?

Nothing wrong with being vertically challenged

[Annoyed Grunt]

[William the White]

Central midfield HAS to be Muamba and NRC. NRC shining light so far this season, Muamba's hassling and harrying crucial. Wigan is massive. If we win it, we'll be fine, I'm sure of it. And we might just win it. They are wank, and worse year on year.

It's still a long way from bed sheet time.

Absolutely...

[Bijou Bob]

The club couldn't afford to sack Coyle I suspect, even if they wanted to. Not that Gartside would have the cahunas to do that in the first place unless the pressure was really on ie bottom and adrift at Christmas.

I'm trying to look on the brightside, 7 matches in and we're only 4 points behind Arsenal. Long time since we've been able to say that

[as]

As p*ssed off as I am with OC, he has to stay.

I don't think we'll go down, but I'm afraid it's going to be a guff season.

[Beefheart]

Is anyone of the opinion that we should keep Coyle even if we are relegated?

[William the White]

Is anyone of the opinion that we should keep Coyle even if we are relegated?

I am more likely than not in that camp.

But if this disorganisation continues I have a mind capable of change...

[BWFC_Insane]

Is anyone of the opinion that we should keep Coyle even if we are relegated?

Fook no, we can't afford to go down. If it looks like we are in danger over the next few weeks, and I suggest the next two games are a great barometer then we need to get a more savvy and experienced option in!

Can't risk the clubs future to help Coyles or any managers, he hasn't done enough yet for us to earn that kind of loyalty!

[Worthy4England]

Is anyone of the opinion that we should keep Coyle even if we are relegated?

Fook no, we can't afford to go down. If it looks like we are in danger over the next few weeks, and I suggest the next two games are a great barometer then we need to get a more savvy and experienced option in!

Can't risk the clubs future to help Coyles or any managers, he hasn't done enough yet for us to earn that kind of loyalty!

Aye - would agree with this.

We could have let Sammy Lee try that sort of experiment.

[BWFC_Insane]

And just to add, I hope and expect that Coyle will turn things round. He's definitely got something about him, but he has to learn fast what his best side is, and how we can grind out some results!

[jaffka]

or even Steve Kean...

[Wandering Willy]

Is anyone of the opinion that we should keep Coyle even if we are relegated?

Fook no, we can't afford to go down. If it looks like we are in danger over the next few weeks, and I suggest the next two games are a great barometer then we need to get a more savvy and experienced option in!

Can't risk the clubs future to help Coyles or any managers, he hasn't done enough yet for us to earn that kind of loyalty!

Aye - would agree with this.

We could have let Sammy Lee try that sort of experiment.

And we'd have been wrong.

We are going into a set of fixtures that we can get some decent points from. I have confidence that Coyle can do that, but with Lee in charge I'd be joining the doom and gloomers.

There's nothing out there in terms of better alternatives and whilst we've been dealt a bad hand with fixtures and injuries we're not far from where we would expect to be. People bang on about how we lost to Norwich and there's no doubt the first half was poor, but let's not forget we had 10 men for the second half and were the better side. We can do well against teams of our ilk and I'll wager we'll be a spanker rather than a spankee at some point.

Coyle in.