Xpro

[Spartan2]

^^^ aaah. You can't beat a good dose of paranoia.

The media in general focuses.purely on the big clubs. In a cup run or a good period they may big-up a club for a time (viz. Bradford City recently). They also like a fairy tale (Bournemouth). But I don't think Bolton are any more the victims of being seen as nuisances and also rans than anyone else Spartan.

I'm not being paranoid, I'm just saying they are deliberately derogatory towards bwfc if they do it to all the smaller clubs then I wouldn't know because I don't read it. But it exists, and its not "the media" that I'm talking about its specifically the dm, the other websites and newspaper articles national and local that come up on my agrigator about bwfc are generally fair, mostly complete made up bullshit, but fair.

[bobo the clown]

The one we used to rail about was the Guardian. Not that I can pick the rag up without my Marigolds on.

Or, specifically, one particularly vicious no-tail who reported on us all too regularly.

[Worthy4England]

The one we used to rail about was the Guardian. Not that I can pick the rag up without my Marigolds on.

Or, specifically, one particularly vicious no-tail who reported on us all too regularly.

Louise Taylor....then of course there was Martin Samuels....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

then of course there was Martin Samuels....

Martin Samuel, singular, although you wouldn't think it to look at him. An opinion for hire, yours (or rather the Mail's)f or just £400,000 per annum.

[bobo the clown]

then of course there was Martin Samuels....

Martin Samuel, singular, although you wouldn't think it to look at him. An opinion for hire, yours (or rather the Mail's) for just £400,000 per annum.

I always particularly enjoy getting people's names just a bit wrong. Infuriates the fck out of them yet they look petty raising the point.

Best of all is the more advanced technique of, when they yet again correct you, looking up in a vague manner ... pausing ... narrowing your eyes just a little ... before a dismissive double flick of your hand as you say "yeah ... whatever" and return to whatever it was you were doing.

Do tell me how it goes !

.... and la Taylor ? How's she doing these days (assuming "she" isn't too gender specific and binary).

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

.... and last Taylor ? How's she doing these days (assuming "she" isn't too gender specific and binary).

Still the Graun's NE football correspondent, although the parody Twitter account she inspired died years ago

[Gudnib]

What does this have to do with Xpro?

Well I thought it was about the charity that was set up to help former footballers who had fallen on hard times going under because two former footballers had claimed £200,000 for work they claim to have rendered for it. As the charity had never mustered £10,000, in any year it just seemed a bit odd that the footballers union was, at the same time, paying its chief more than £3million in a single year.
Silly me for not realising that it was really all some dastardly Daily Mail plot to discredit Bolton Wanderers because Dean Holdsworth and Gordon Taylor had once played for the club (though this was never mentioned in the article).
I'll get me coat.

[Worthy4England]

The bits I'm missing is where the two former footballers were claiming £200k for work rendered (I'm guessing to Xpro) and what the relationship is between Xpro and the players union? Their website also still seems to be live and fairly current....totally lost here.

[bobo the clown]

The bits I'm missing is where the two former footballers were claiming £200k for work rendered (I'm guessing to Xpro) and what the relationship is between Xpro and the players union? Their website also still seems to be live and fairly current....totally lost here.

... and "as the (Xpro) charity had never mustered £10,000, in any year ..." in such a wealth driven industry it doesn't seem to be up to much.

[Worthy4England]

Ok think I'm joining the dots....seems like Deano was MD of XPRO according to the Daily Mail (and other web-sources - although they could all be taking their info from the DM)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... llers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still missing the £200k legal action though...and any direct connection between XPRO and the footballers union....

[Gudnib]

The bits I'm missing is where the two former footballers were claiming £200k for work rendered (I'm guessing to Xpro) and what the relationship is between Xpro and the players union? Their website also still seems to be live and fairly current....totally lost here.

... and "as the (Xpro) charity had never mustered £10,000, in any year ..." in such a wealth driven industry it doesn't seem to be up to much.

Well it is all a bit puzzling, n'est ce pas, as M.Thingymejig might say!

What is the relationship between Xpro and the PFA?

If you believe the PFA (that can afford to pay its CEO £3million+) members are members for life so why was Xpro needed.
You are right, though, that the charity still exists. It doesn't look like its ever done very much but what is it doing now if its management company has gone belly up.

And as for the Daily Mail in sounding the alarm!!!!!!!

[Gudnib]

Ok think I'm joining the dots....seems like Deano was MD of XPRO according to the Daily Mail (and other web-sources - although they could all be taking their info from the DM)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... llers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still missing the £200k legal action though...and any direct connection between XPRO and the footballers union....

No. Try to keep up. Geoff Scott (Ex-Evertion) was CEO of Xpro. Deano and another were reported in the Daily Mail to be claiming £200K for work they had allegedly done for Xpro and this brought about the collapse of Xpros management company (which tbf didn't seem to be achieving very much anyway).

[Worthy4England]

Ok think I'm joining the dots....seems like Deano was MD of XPRO according to the Daily Mail (and other web-sources - although they could all be taking their info from the DM)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... llers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still missing the £200k legal action though...and any direct connection between XPRO and the footballers union....

No. Try to keep up. Geoff Scott (Ex-Evertion) was CEO of Xpro. Deano and another were reported in the Daily Mail to be claiming £200K for work they had allegedly done for Xpro and this brought about the collapse of Xpros management company (which tbf didn't seem to be achieving very much anyway).

Holdsworth was reported as being MD in the link I posted. I can see Geoff Scott is still CEO, according to the website. I can't find the Daily Mail report on Deano claiming money owed off 'em....I'm not sure there's any relationship between the PFA and Xpro, what suggests there is?

[Gudnib]

Ok think I'm joining the dots....seems like Deano was MD of XPRO according to the Daily Mail (and other web-sources - although they could all be taking their info from the DM)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... llers.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still missing the £200k legal action though...and any direct connection between XPRO and the footballers union....

No. Try to keep up. Geoff Scott (Ex-Evertion) was CEO of Xpro. Deano and another were reported in the Daily Mail to be claiming £200K for work they had allegedly done for Xpro and this brought about the collapse of Xpros management company (which tbf didn't seem to be achieving very much anyway).

Holdsworth was reported as being MD in the link I posted. I can see Geoff Scott is still CEO, according to the website. I can't find the Daily Mail report on Deano claiming money owed off 'em....I'm not sure there's any relationship between the PFA and Xpro, what suggests there is?

I don't often bother with newspapers these days but if you have a Booths card and spend £10 in one of its stores you can have a free newspaper at the weekend. Most often I will pick up The Times or Sunday Times but last Saturday I plumped for the Daily Mail. Flicking through it from back to front I came across a spread by Martin Samuel on FIFA and on the same page a column by Charles Sale. I have scanned it but the system will not allow me to send it as an attachment and as I am a bit of a novice at this game lets tell you exactly what it says:
Football charity fears
It doesn't seem fair that the Professional Footballers Association could award their multi-millionaire chief executive Gordon Taylor - one of the FA ambassadors in Alicante last night - a £2million bonus in 2014 for his hugely lucrative long service, while the future of football organisaton Xpro management, which also helps impoverished former players, is in doubt after its fund-raising arm went bust.
It went under after former Wimbledon star Dean Holdsworth and another un-named former player took the company to court for alleged unpaid wages worth around £200,000.
This raises a lot of questions including what the wealthy PFA really does to support former players, what exactly Xpro Management did, how much was spent on charitable objectives, what Dean Holdsworth's role was and what exactly he and another did to (as is alleged) justify claiming around £200,000 from the company set up to manage the former players charity.

[Worthy4England]

However, it has been brought to the attention of the PFA that a recently formed company, Xpro Enterprises Ltd, has been writing to some members requesting authority to obtain personal information regarding individual members’ pensions. Xpro has no association or affiliation with the PFA and we are aware of instances in the past where Xpro have published misleading information concerning players’ pensions. Should you require any information concerning your pension, please contact the Pension Administrators.

Above from PFA's website - according to them there is no link between the two organisations (although this was 2013)

What the PFA does to support former players is between them and the players.

I've already told you what Deano did at XPro - he was "Executive" Managing Director (from Dec 2013 to July 2014) which probably entailed doing what Managing Directors do. He resigned on 7th August 2014. - Try and keep up. . I have no idea whether there's a direct business connection between XPro Management Services and XPRO the charity - although Geoff Scott was involved with both. A cursory glance at the winding up petition seems to show that they wound up with £87k debt, £61k of which was owed to Robert Runham an ex-Director. Deano was owed nothing - so the £200k looks to be a red-herring.

Can we move on now?

[Gudnib]

However, it has been brought to the attention of the PFA that a recently formed company, Xpro Enterprises Ltd, has been writing to some members requesting authority to obtain personal information regarding individual members’ pensions. Xpro has no association or affiliation with the PFA and we are aware of instances in the past where Xpro have published misleading information concerning players’ pensions. Should you require any information concerning your pension, please contact the Pension Administrators.

Above from PFA's website - according to them there is no link between the two organisations (although this was 2013)

What the PFA does to support former players is between them and the players.

I've already told you what Deano did at XPro - he was "Executive" Managing Director (from Dec 2013 to July 2014) which probably entailed doing what Managing Directors do. He resigned on 7th August 2014. - Try and keep up. . I have no idea whether there's a direct business connection between XPro Management Services and XPRO the charity - although Geoff Scott was involved with both. A cursory glance at the winding up petition seems to show that they wound up with £87k debt, £61k of which was owed to Robert Runham an ex-Director. Deano was owed nothing - so the £200k looks to be a red-herring.

Can we move on now?

Apologies for the 'try to keep up bit' as you evidently knew more about this than I had supposed. But I don't understand why you want to move on so fast and some things seem to be being glossed over.
There is an important public interest in how charities raise, spend and account for their money (and unions for that matter).
If a charity is raising money for a charitable purpose but actually spending it on something else (e.g. excessive management charges or expenses) that is a public interest matter.
Xpro Life After Sport (with a working name of Xpro) is a registered charity formed in June 2010. Geoff Scott is recorded as its CEO. It has never filed accounts on the grounds that its income has always been less than £10,000 each year.
Xpro Management Services Ltd was formed in November 2010. Geoff Scott is also recorded as having been a director of that company. The filed accounts of companies do not provide the detail required of charities but its last filed accounts were filed late.
It follows though that if it was wound up with £87k debt that the alleged claims of £200k were not recognised in the winding up or maybe withdrawn as there would seem to be no possibility of them being met.
If £61K was owed to Robert Runham what was this for?
Its beginning to look like Xpro Management Services Ltd was spending an awful lot of money on management and very little money was reaching the charity. And the PFA is also spending a lot of money on management too. No business of football supporters or the public? I disagree

[bobo the clown]

^^^ bringing me back to my very first post on this. You really do have an axe to grind here don't you.

[Gudnib]

^^^ bringing me back to my very first post on this. You really do have an axe to grind here don't you.

I suppose I do really. I'm always a bit wary of folk that try to avoid reasonable enquiry, that only want to listen to the part of any story that suits their prejudices or biases or in more extreme cases wilfully set out to mislead. I like to get to the truth and not just part of it.
When I started out on this there wasn't a lot to go on. Now I know more its clear that there are a lot of unanswered questions.
I don't know where Charles Sale got his info from. Those who don't like the Daily Mail might say he made it up.

[Worthy4England]

I'm not sure which axe you're grinding though.

There is an important public interest angle - probably not on the let's talk about the Wanderers part of the forum - but yes, I agree for those bits of the public that are interested, then there's a public interest angle. Like there is in how any pension funds are raided in general business. The PFA, it's a Union - really up to its members to judge whether it's successful or not. Looking at the top two league's salaries, I'd say that they've probably done a pretty good job compared to say UNITE...

You seem to be assuming there's a direct business connection (parent company etc.) between all the XPRO companies. I'm not sure that link exists in a legal sense. As far as I can tell Xpro Life After Sport is still going as a charity. It's not legally related to either of the other two XPRO companies that are now dissolved or liquidated (other than they seem to have shared directors at one point or another - Scott and Runham). I don't believe that any money from Xpro Management Services was meant to reach the charity - it's a different and legally unconnected business as far as I can see.

How do you think anyone other than the liquidator and Robert Runham would know what his £61k was for? He didn't get it - they didn't have the funds...

[Gudnib]

I'm not sure which axe you're grinding though.

There is an important public interest angle - probably not on the let's talk about the Wanderers part of the forum - but yes, I agree for those bits of the public that are interested, then there's a public interest angle. Like there is in how any pension funds are raided in general business. The PFA, it's a Union - really up to its members to judge whether it's successful or not. Looking at the top two league's salaries, I'd say that they've probably done a pretty good job compared to say UNITE...

You seem to be assuming there's a direct business connection (parent company etc.) between all the XPRO companies. I'm not sure that link exists in a legal sense. As far as I can tell Xpro Life After Sport is still going as a charity. It's not legally related to either of the other two XPRO companies that are now dissolved or liquidated (other than they seem to have shared directors at one point or another - Scott and Runham). I don't believe that any money from Xpro Management Services was meant to reach the charity - it's a different and legally unconnected business as far as I can see.

How do you think anyone other than the liquidator and Robert Runham would know what his £61k was for? He didn't get it - they didn't have the funds...

I have no personal experience of unions but my second-hand experience on several occasions was that Unison (is it a forerunner of Unite) was no use at all to individuals with really genuine and important issues.
Charles Sale's article links Xpro Management with helping impoverished players referring also to its fund-raising arm going bust. So if the charity that calls itself Xpro (but is actually formed as Xpro Life After Sport) is not connected to Xpro Management what is this fund-raising arm and where is the money going?
The link to Bolton Wanderers is through Deano who seems to have worked for Xpro Management whereas the previous Daily Mail article referred to him working for Xpro. It all seems a bit tangled but are you reaching an entirely different conclusion to Charles Sale that neither Dean Holdsworth nor Xpro Management were engaged in charitable activity at all?
So we have a bust business, 'a fundraising arm' somewhere but have not been able to identify what it is or what it does or how much money it raises and a registered charity endorsed by celebrated and wealthy luminaries of the game that cannot manage to raise £10,000 in a year.
If you like mysteries (and I confess I do) its fascinating but I have no interest other than those I have previously declared.