Another Year Older And Deeper In Debt!

[H. Pedersen]

Yeah, because OC would be managing perfectly well with a 36 year old Campo and Stelios and a 41 year old Gary Speed, still in the squad.

And he'd be doing just fine without Shittu, Riga, Joey O'Brien, Connolly, and Davis.

Some of the signings Megson made were really expensive, especially compared to what Allardyce was doing. Worse, though, was that the squad was just way bigger than we needed especially since we played fewer games than any other EPL team in 08-09. Some of that can be blamed on Sammy Lee but again that ultimately comes down to Gartside. And we could offload Helguson and Braaten but we couldn't even give Riga away.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah, because OC would be managing perfectly well with a 36 year old Campo and Stelios and a 41 year old Gary Speed, still in the squad.

And he'd be doing just fine without Shittu, Riga, Joey O'Brien, Connolly, and Davis.

Some of the signings Megson made were really expensive, especially compared to what Allardyce was doing. Worse, though, was that the squad was just way bigger than we needed especially since we played fewer games than any other EPL team in 08-09. Some of that can be blamed on Sammy Lee but again that ultimately comes down to Gartside. And we could offload Helguson and Braaten but we couldn't even give Riga away.

What point are you making? It seems warped to me - If Eddie Davies - the guy who's setting the targets and funding the Club was unhappy with the job Gartsdie was doing, he'd remove him.

Given that he hasn't, I can only assume by whatever targets have been set, Davies is still happy with the way Gartside is performing against those targets.

So your point is largely pointless.

[CAPSLOCK]

No, no, no

Davies pays Gartside cos he's his mate

Thats how it works in 100 million businesses

I'm happy how MY money gets spent and tbh thats all that matters to me

[Worthy4England]

No, no, no

Davies pays Gartside cos he's his mate

Thats how it works in 100 million businesses

I'm happy how MY money gets spent and tbh thats all that matters to me

Which is fine too, but either way it all comes down to whether one Edwin Davies is happy with one Philip Gartside, regardless of all the bollocks that HP is pointing to...

[BWFC_Insane]

And another point worth making is that we'd not have any of Eddie Davies' investment without Gartside.

He was pivotal in bringing ED into the club.

[H. Pedersen]

Which is fine too, but either way it all comes down to whether one Edwin Davies is happy with one Philip Gartside, regardless of all the bollocks that HP is pointing to...

True enough. I suppose that what irks me about financial matters these days is that people seem comfortable with dealings that just go against all common sense. Giving mortgages to people who can't afford them? Seems like an awful idea, but a lot of people were willing to do it . . . right until it brought down the Western financial system. No matter how insane the proposition though - sub-prime mortgages, mortgage-backed securities, CEO's making 500 times the average worker's salary - somebody has some economic hoodoo that justifies it.

Similiarly I don't see how you can continue to operate a mid-level Premiership team that loses money every single year indefinitely. Maybe the Coyle feel-good factor will help, as will shedding some players this summer, but it doesn't seem like enough to make up £35 million. I'm hoping Gartside has a plan to turn it around to justify that million-dollar salary. I guess that's what he's trying to do with the 38-team Premier League but frankly that ain't gonna work. I am fearful, though, that too much damage was done during the Era of Megson.

[Worthy4England]

Which is fine too, but either way it all comes down to whether one Edwin Davies is happy with one Philip Gartside, regardless of all the bollocks that HP is pointing to...

True enough. I suppose that what irks me about financial matters these days is that people seem comfortable with dealings that just go against all common sense. Giving mortgages to people who can't afford them? Seems like an awful idea, but a lot of people were willing to do it . . . right until it brought down the Western financial system. No matter how insane the proposition though - sub-prime mortgages, mortgage-backed securities, CEO's making 500 times the average worker's salary - somebody has some economic hoodoo that justifies it.

Similiarly I don't see how you can continue to operate a mid-level Premiership team that loses money every single year indefinitely. Maybe the Coyle feel-good factor will help, as will shedding some players this summer, but it doesn't seem like enough to make up £35 million. I'm hoping Gartside has a plan to turn it around to justify that million-dollar salary. I guess that's what he's trying to do with the 38-team Premier League but frankly that ain't gonna work. I am fearful, though, that too much damage was done during the Era of Megson.

Now that's more sense.

I agree that it's not sustainable indefinitely - only as long as someone is willing to foot the bill.

But then you talk about Gartside turning it around (whilst I suspect wanting to retain our Premier League status) how do you think he might achieve that?

If he cuts wage costs so that they don't have a huge impact, we go down because we can't attract players that are good enough for the Prem - or they're all 17/18. 75% of our Revenue is wages.

Or he finds new Revenue streams - which he's rather limited on, given we don't fill the stadium now, don't raise shedloads in merchandising etc.

If it was a business in the real world, then sure, he'd be sacked.

It's not, and the rules are therefore vastly different.

[Prufrock]

As for the 'Eddie would never sell', I thought he was trying to, but only to the right person?

[Worthy4England]

As for the 'Eddie would never sell', I thought he was trying to, but only to the right person?

Not sure he was trying to sell, but rather that if the right buyer came along who had even deeper pockets, he'd be receptive to dialogue...

[H. Pedersen]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

Other than that, though, it's going to be down to Coyle improving the football and the results, all while keeping player spending to a minimum. It may happen, but again my concern is that Gartside just went too far in backing Megson and we won't be able to dig ourselves out of that £35 million hole.

[bristol_Wanderer3]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

Other than that, though, it's going to be down to Coyle improving the football and the results, all while keeping player spending to a minimum. It may happen, but again my concern is that Gartside just went too far in backing Megson and we won't be able to dig ourselves out of that £35 million hole.

The £35m loss was just last years "hole", the "hole" we in theory need to dig ourselves out of is a £93m one. Despite a certain increase in revenue, it looks very likely we will make a loss again this year. We aren't going to repay all this debt ever, we are just hoping ED will eventually write it off.

I totally agree with your point about merchandising. We should be on the ball with this kind of thing, I thought that was part of the reason behind signing the then unproven CYL. Please write to PG and tell him your thoughts on this.

I don't agree with your view about backing Megson. We had to back him, because he was a poor manager, and we needed better players to compensate for this. If we hadn't backed him we would not be in the Prem (we very nearly went down as it was) and then there would be real financial disaster.

Until the last couple of years I never saw us a benefactored club, but that is now what we are. I personally preferred it when we were trying to live within our means, but that is not possible long term in the Prem unless you have an exceptional manager who is prepared to work with one hand tied behind his back, and that ended when BSA left. At least our benefactor is a fan.

[TANGODANCER]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

I should imagine setting it up could be an expensive affair. Didn't we do it in Japan for Nakata then he retired? .

[midnitefooty]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

Other than that, though, it's going to be down to Coyle improving the football and the results, all while keeping player spending to a minimum. It may happen, but again my concern is that Gartside just went too far in backing Megson and we won't be able to dig ourselves out of that £35 million hole.

The £35m loss was just last years "hole", the "hole" we in theory need to dig ourselves out of is a £93m one. Despite a certain increase in revenue, it looks very likely we will make a loss again this year. We aren't going to repay all this debt ever, we are just hoping ED will eventually write it off.

I totally agree with your point about merchandising. We should be on the ball with this kind of thing, I thought that was part of the reason behind signing the then unproven CYL. Please write to PG and tell him your thoughts on this.

I don't agree with your view about backing Megson. We had to back him, because he was a poor manager, and we needed better players to compensate for this. If we hadn't backed him we would not be in the Prem (we very nearly went down as it was) and then there would be real financial disaster.

Until the last couple of years I never saw us a benefactored club, but that is now what we are. I personally preferred it when we were trying to live within our means, but that is not possible long term in the Prem unless you have an exceptional manager who is prepared to work with one hand tied behind his back, and that ended when BSA left. At least our benefactor is a fan.

Here's why I think CYL merchandising in Korea won't work. As HP said, Koreans love anything that a Korean Athlete does. Unfortunately, this doesn't translate over to love for the team he is on. Park at United is a different matter since 90% of Koreans are bandwagon supporters who follow Utd, Chelsea, Pool (haha) and Arse. And hence why idiot football fans in Korea want CYL to move to a "better" team.

In addition, there is no sports merchandising market in Korea. HP, while you lived here, did you see a lot of people walking around in sports gear? Probably not right? Baseball caps are about it. The occasional jerseys that you see from American sports teams are probbaly Korean-Americans too.

Which is why it is incorrect to say that Park or CYL were initially bought for that reason. I'm sure Bolton and United's marketing teams aren't (complete) idiots and did the research on this before signing the player.

Does Bolton get a cut when games are aired overseas? I don't know the deal structure when it comes to EPL broadcast rights.

Bolton made a trip to Korea for the Peace Cup in 2007. I'd say something like that is a much better way to capitalise on CYL's popularity here.

[H. Pedersen]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

I should imagine setting it up could be an expensive affair. Didn't we do it in Japan for Nakata then he retired? .

Can't be that hard. Put the shirts in the Reebok stores. Advertise the stores on the LCY show and during Bolton games, nearly all of which are televised. Or at the very least, fix the damned website so it stops canceling orders make in Korea (though maybe they have fixed this by now).

[H. Pedersen]

In addition, there is no sports merchandising market in Korea. HP, while you lived here, did you see a lot of people walking around in sports gear? Probably not right? Baseball caps are about it. The occasional jerseys that you see from American sports teams are probbaly Korean-Americans too.

I actually saw a lot of jackets and such for the big teams from Spain, England, and Italy. Also, it seemed like every 5-a-side team, no matter how shitty, was decked out in a full replica kit. I'm not saying we're going to steal all that business, or take a huge chunk out of the £35 million debt, but it seems silly not to try.

I also don't think it's a conscious marketing decision, since no one I talked to when attempting to order from the club was even aware they wouldn't ship to SK.

[midnitefooty]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

I should imagine setting it up could be an expensive affair. Didn't we do it in Japan for Nakata then he retired? .

Can't be that hard. Put the shirts in the Reebok stores. Advertise the stores on the LCY show and during Bolton games, nearly all of which are televised. Or at the very least, fix the damned website so it stops canceling orders make in Korea (though maybe they have fixed this by now).

It is not up to BWFC to put the shirts in the stores. They can certainly propose it but in the end, the decision lies with the local Reebok office. If Reebok Korea felt that this would be a good seller, they would have already done it. That is why Nike stores here carry more national team stuff than United stuff. It sells better (and only during World Cups at that).

Baseball is ten times more popular than football but no one wears a Choo shirt, even though he's ripping it up at Cleveland.

The BWFC online store is a different issue and I agree they should do something about it. So that I can buy one.

[live edit]
Most of those are cheap Chinese knock offs. No one will spend like 60,000 Won and upwards for the real deal. And yes, you will find the odd person wearing something from a "big team" as you say. Which is my point exactly.

You're right in saying that Bolton need to capitalise on CYL's popularity. United's Asia tour is a real money maker for them. Though I imagine it's not the cheapest thing to put together and Bolton might not attract the crowds that United does.

[boltonboris]

One point I would make is that they haven't capitalized enough on Lee in South Korea. South Koreans love ANYTHING that a Korean athlete does - they even have a weekly show that's entirely dedicated to what Lee and Park Ji-sung did that week - but I didn't see a single BWFC jersey for sale in any South Korean store; not even the Reebok stores! The BWFC Shop wouldn't even ship anything to me in Korea. The only time I saw anything related to BWFC was when a Korean guy was playing 5-a-side in a full-on LCY kit, and I think it was fake.

I should imagine setting it up could be an expensive affair. Didn't we do it in Japan for Nakata then he retired? .

(Co)Incidentally, that was the last time that BWFC made an operating profit

[Lofthouse Lower]

Some of those Japanese birds seen at the Reebok during Nakata's time were mega-fit.

[Bruce Rioja]

Some of those Japanese birds seen at the Reebok during Nakata's time were mega-fit.

Something that rarely extends to Koreans though.

[Lofthouse Lower]

Some of those Japanese birds seen at the Reebok during Nakata's time were mega-fit.

Something that rarely extends to Koreans though.

<inserts 'you are what you eat' joke>