Full Steam Ahead to Orient (a) 10/08, 17:30

[BWFC_Insane]

We knew preseason was disrupted and that would make the start more difficult than we'd hoped. Yet here we are, back at "If we don't win every game nothing has changed."

We'll have some idea where we stand after 12-15 games.

15 takes us to Stockport away. That'll probably be a good marker.

In that time we'll have:

Home: Wrexham, Huddersfield, Posh.
Away: Charlton, Birmingham, Stockport.

If we're at ~2PPG at that point and the new lads are settling we can be very hopeful.

And when we get to 15 games if we are below 2ppg what then?

Last season was the time to deliver, we didn’t. We have to show that we are significantly better - and we know the games where we slipped last time round.

We don’t have to play free flowing football and dominate but we do need to be able to consistently win games across the whole season.

We might win the last 15 in a row to go up. And great but rightly the performance and results will be judged where we sit each week. It’s been a good start but Sunday is the first big game test - and we have to show we’ve learned from last season.

[GhostoftheBok]

One game isn't going to tell us what we need to know.

We'd probably have lost the Orient game last season, but the fact we won (whilst offering hope) doesn't tell us enough.

Same goes for Wrexham. Any team can lose a game.

We're going to have this situation this season where any poor result at any time is a sign of the apocalypse, but you can't go through a season saying the minimum standard is The Invincibles.

1/4 to 1/3 of the way in *usually* gives you an idea of what the standard of the league is and how well you compare. Not always, but it usually gives you an idea of who is competitive.

[Prufrock]

Exactly. Last week felt very much like one of those "won't know how good a result it is for two months".

We could be looking back thinking "great away win against a team in the top 6, lots of new players, showed grit and got points on the board that set the scene for this fantastic start". Or it could be "Christ scraped a win against bottom of the league with them getting at us a fair bit foreshadowing all these defensive issues".

Equally we could lose to Wrexham on Sunday (dooooom) but then be second behind them with 42/45 Vs 45/45. Or win but then be midtable. You just can't tell. We're not going to win the first 15 (but hey there's more chance of that now than that we'll lose all 15...)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

But the #narrative! Won't someone please think of the #narrative!

[TANGODANCER]

But the #narrative! Won't someone please think of the #narrative!

Has to be "Elephant's never forget" ! ....

[BWFC_Insane]

One game isn't going to tell us what we need to know.

We'd probably have lost the Orient game last season, but the fact we won (whilst offering hope) doesn't tell us enough.

Same goes for Wrexham. Any team can lose a game.

We're going to have this situation this season where any poor result at any time is a sign of the apocalypse, but you can't go through a season saying the minimum standard is The Invincibles.

1/4 to 1/3 of the way in *usually* gives you an idea of what the standard of the league is and how well you compare. Not always, but it usually gives you an idea of who is competitive.

I agree in that one game isn’t the be all and end all (apart from when it is). But the patterns are what matters. If we struggle in the same way as we have in previous seasons in particular games it is a long standing pattern.

I would agree that 15 games in terms of PPG tells you a lot but there are other signs too. Those signs existed last season even when we occupied those top two spots. If you are getting thumped by poorer sides because they raise their game on the big day and you go hiding it’s something that almost always matters. As it did last season. Oxford didn’t happen in a vacuum. It wasn’t an unfortunate one off. It was a repeat of a pattern.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

1 game isn't a pattern for fecks sake. Can we not save the negativity for when things are actually shit?

[BWFC_Insane]

1 game isn't a pattern for fecks sake. Can we not save the negativity for when things are actually shit?

I think we win Sunday. It suits us. Still good weather and pitches. And whilst Wrexham are and will be ‘up for it’ they are still adapting to a higher league. This game in November when weather is poor, pitches are dug up and Wrexham have got themselves together might be different.

Positive enough?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

1 game isn't a pattern for fecks sake. Can we not save the negativity for when things are actually shit?

I think we win Sunday. It suits us. Still good weather and pitches. And whilst Wrexham are and will be ‘up for it’ they are still adapting to a higher league. This game in November when weather is poor, pitches are dug up and Wrexham have got themselves together might be different.

Positive enough?

Its a start. If we're 10th after a dozen games then I'll probably join in with the negativity, but we need to give them a bit of time to bed in and get going. I know we need to be on it fairly early, but not from day 2

[GhostoftheBok]

We've got over some psychological hurdles.

Our first game after the final was tough away game and we won it.

The new lads came in for the cup and showed they could win.

Next up is the first home league game of the season. We will want to go unbeaten at home this campaign, so this is another important one for the mentality of the team.

Things will likely calm down after Charlton, which is an away game at a side that expects to be right up there.

First away - first home - away to a top 6 rival.

Good mile markers.

[Worthy4England]

Clean sheet would be nice. (Not for writing all over, just yet)

[GhostoftheBok]

Clean sheet would be nice.

Yes, it would.

However, we conceded twice as many goals at home last season as the season before and got fewer points from it.

I'd love a run of clean sheets, but we need to keep scoring goals.

Hopefully we get the balance right this season.

[Worthy4England]

We got 3 more (important) home points last season, conceding twice as many goals.

Plymouth when they went up scored just 44 to bag 61 points - 8 short of the clean sweep, but based on not being in possession of a one-way telescope - they only conceded 16 (which in the event was 3 more than us that year).

As you say - balance would be good and I think what we need - it would also be decent habits for playing away, where we aren't/weren't as prolific and didn't accumulate the same number of points (albeit didn't concede as many goals either).

I'm not suggesting we put 10 men on the line and just punt shit over the stands, which is the oft cited cry we hear, when the notion of defending is discussed (or maybe some pictures of Sean Dyche). I'm hoping that the "box" midfield settles into whose trigger and when and overall, we get enough solidity to increase our point count - which is really what it's all about.

[GhostoftheBok]

or maybe some pictures of Sean Dyche

If I'd had my way Dyche would have been Bolton, not Burnley, manager; so I've no issue with that side of the game. He's an underrated attacking coach too, by the way.

I enjoyed the season where we kept clean sheets for fun (17 in the league, was it?) and I'll be delighted if we can get close to that again.

The issue is what we've recruited to do, which is play expansive and attacking football. We need to defend in a way that works with that recruitment, not try to make the players defend in a way that doesn't suit them. Throwing your body in the way and refusing to concede is universally good, but as you say it's not a bodies behind the ball approach we need.

We will live or die, defensively, by our possession play and the press. Where we lose the ball and how well we counter transitions will determine how many we concede.

I want us to be really good at that side of things, I genuinely do.

What it needs is time. Until it's drilled in the lads just have to find a way to win. We have the quality to make that happen. Hopefully once the tactical side of things kicks in we will be good enough to win the league. If not I'll settle for close second.

[Worthy4England]

As long as we've recruited for expansive attacking football with enough defensive capability and structure to get us up, that's fine. If we haven't, we might score 150 goals this year and still look like lemons.

I mean, we're not recruiting for any style just to say "we do this style." We're doing it to get out of this league and into the one above!

[GhostoftheBok]

As long as we've recruited for expansive attacking football with enough defensive capability and structure to get us up, that's fine. If we haven't, we might score 150 goals this year and still look like lemons.

I mean, we're not recruiting for any style just to say "we do this style." We're doing it to get out of this league and into the one above!

Hopefully that's where the new players and new shape kick us up a notch.

We won't know until we've player a lot more football, but we've recruited aggressive pressers and players with pace.

More heavy metal football and less elevator music would be lovely.

[Worthy4England]

As long as we've recruited for expansive attacking football with enough defensive capability and structure to get us up, that's fine. If we haven't, we might score 150 goals this year and still look like lemons.

I mean, we're not recruiting for any style just to say "we do this style." We're doing it to get out of this league and into the one above!

Hopefully that's where the new players and new shape kick us up a notch.

We won't know until we've player a lot more football, but we've recruited aggressive pressers and players with pace.

More heavy metal football and less elevator music would be lovely.

I've actually just had chance to watch most of the game (was wedding anny last week) - If I look at the chances they had (irrespective of how many we had) - there's some proper shit defending going on.

Iredale - done for the goal - not buying the "sun was out", Kelman stood pretty much next to him looking at the same ball, landed it on ha'pence on his right peg. Before that, the shot that hits the bar, the guy goes unchallenged from just inside his own half to just inside our box getting his shot off. Incredibly poor.

Kelman from the short corner - unchallenged - like we didn't see that last year, did we? Kelman then turns Iredale every which way but Wednesday to get a shot in, Brown (in another familiar move we saw last year) free header 8 yards out from a corner, in our box - how?

It all looked a bit familiar...

[GhostoftheBok]

If you go back and watch that Kelman goal, Happe looked for that pass twice. The first time Kelman's run isn't on, so he goes back to the keeper to reset. Then the ball goes back out to Happe, he looks up, takes as many touches as he likes and then hits the pass.

Iredale was poor for it, but it's far too much time for the player in possession to do whatever he likes.

So it's bad in two ways. Dion isn't aggressive enough in the press and Iredale gets caught under the ball.

It's a good example of the point I'm making about the press. You can get away with one error, but not both.

Jack simply had a bad game and Kelman had a good one. We rightly subbed him off. Normally you don't concede that, but the part you can actually fix is the time the centre half gets to pick the pass.

[BWFC_Insane]

If you go back and watch that Kelman goal, Happe looked for that pass twice. The first time Kelman's run isn't on, so he goes back to the keeper to reset. Then the ball goes back out to Happe, he looks up, takes as many touches as he likes and then hits the pass.

Iredale was poor for it, but it's far too much time for the player in possession to do whatever he likes.

So it's bad in two ways. Dion isn't aggressive enough in the press and Iredale gets caught under the ball.

It's a good example of the point I'm making about the press. You can get away with one error, but not both.

Jack simply had a bad game and Kelman had a good one. We rightly subbed him off. Normally you don't concede that, but the part you can actually fix is the time the centre half gets to pick the pass.

Yes and no. You will have scenarios where those balls will be played without pressure because people are tired (it was boiling on Saturday) and/or runners make errors or we are down to 10 men or whatever. I don't think its unreasonable to say that if your defender (or any player) can't get the absolute basics and bare minimums right - that is also something managers will have to fix. One way or another. Iredale struggled in pretty basic things on Saturday - one off - ok....happens more than once...needs fixing.

[GhostoftheBok]

You can fix almost anything in the market, eventually. What matters at the minute is what we can do this season, with this group.

It'll never be perfect and mistakes will be made, you just hope it's not multiple mistakes - as it was for the goal.