Taking Stock (port) ....A trip away to the neighbours. Sat Nov 9th, 3-0'clock.

[BWFC_Insane]

Lots of good discussion here. I think the crucial thing is that we’ve sacrificed being a very good and balanced league one side for Evatt’s ego. We’ve got more than enough quality but that needs to be matched with solidity and fight. I keep coming back to it but Sheehan as a number 6 in league one is mental. Todd, Rioch, Allardyce simply wouldn’t have that. You can’t put someone in there who does nothing to protect the back 3/4 and is as ineffective off the ball as any luxury type forward. All this does is makes us look very good when a side can’t get near us but totally ineffective when they can.

Todd built a midfield of Sellars, Pollock, Thompson and Frandsen et al…all could play but all were physical beasts too. All took rough with the smooth.

What we have now is too much focus on one aspect of football and Evatt has sacrificed us because he wants to project his own image. I find that entirely unacceptable.

[Worthy4England]

It's not feeling any better after a kip. Having effectively two in the MF v a side we know are going to press the spaces looked risky to me. As it would v the Pies. The main difference is with Jan not far off, I'm not sat here thinking "if we just strengthened these two positions, then just maybe..." You could make a case for changing pretty much all of 'em.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's not feeling any better after a kip. Having effectively two in the MF v a side we know are going to press the spaces looked risky to me. As it would v the Pies. The main difference is with Jan not far off, I'm not sat here thinking "if we just strengthened these two positions, then just maybe..." You could make a case for changing pretty much all of 'em.

I think we have a lot of good players, who should be doing better and could under the right manager. Notable that this was supposed to be the slightly stiffer system compared to the "front three", but McAtee - whether he was supposed to be at 8 or 10 - is not a midfielder. Trouble is, injuries mean we literally only have Matete and Sheehan, unless we try Arfield, who has hardly been baning down the door.

and in the local paper.... Ilesy gives the team 0/10 and players' marks as low as 2/10. I know several onlookers might have given them all zero but in the 30-odd years since Sharrock started BN player ratings I can't ever recall marks as low as these.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... h-ratings/

Meanwhile, George Johnston valiantly tried to protect the manager. I doubt many agree, except perhaps the bit where he refers to the away-end chanting with "rightly so, they have every right."

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... port-loss/

[Worthy4England]

That's sort of where I am, in the sense that I also think we have some decent players to realistically pressure the top 2. But you just knew after the start that we'd still get the plague at some point. Have off days as all teams do and it's a real struggle to make that back, consistently, over 38-40 remaining fixtures.

There's little point bleating players are injured when there's a couple on the books where no bugger can work out why they're here. We say yeah but CMG (who I rate as a player) I dunno where he's going to play him. Arfield (also been historically good) dunno and Morley out on loan..You can't have just 4 possible picks for a three man midfield coz 1 injured leaves you nowhere left. We have too many people who can't see past the forward line. They should go back to Champ Man.

[officer_dibble]

It's not feeling any better after a kip. Having effectively two in the MF v a side we know are going to press the spaces looked risky to me. As it would v the Pies. The main difference is with Jan not far off, I'm not sat here thinking "if we just strengthened these two positions, then just maybe..." You could make a case for changing pretty much all of 'em.

I think we have a lot of good players, who should be doing better and could under the right manager. Notable that this was supposed to be the slightly stiffer system compared to the "front three", but McAtee - whether he was supposed to be at 8 or 10 - is not a midfielder. Trouble is, injuries mean we literally only have Matete and Sheehan, unless we try Arfield, who has hardly been baning down the door.

Lolos was an unused sub. He’s a big lad and we were told he could play 8 or 10 I am sure when he signed.

As for Iles scores, sadly we’ve had 2s and 3s before this season. I don’t think I’ve seen a 0 though. He’s got a tough gig now - listen to Evatt snap at Dearden last night - but he has to go to Sharon and ask why he’s still in a job? Cos if he doesn’t go this week it feels like there’s more to it than football reasons.

[BWFC_Insane]

For me the writing has been on the wall since we lost in the playoffs to Barnsley. That team had imo two premiership level players in Bradley and Trafford and I think we underperformed during the season as it was league position wise. But having got into the play offs we surrendered incredibly meekly to a not particularly good Barnsley side. It wasn’t an Allardyce to Ipswich style loss where we gave everything against a very good Ipswich side and on another day could have won. We left everything on the pitch that day and though we lost when I think back to it it’s just the near misses and how agonizingly close those players came to probably upsetting the odds and winning. No eidur that night. Easily our best player. Knight. Weight of history and Ipswich being a very good side all against us. Yet we were an inch away. Another day we’d have done it. Football can do that.

But the Barnsley two legs were not that. A meek a feeble defeat where we almost accepted we’d lose before we started. We didn’t leave everything on the pitch. There is no real reason or excuse for it. The only thing it reflected is the mentality of the squad Evatt had built.

Same thing happened the season after time and time again. When the crunch came we wilted meekly. I can only say there were those of us who saw the Oxford final coming. It’s not like it wasn’t predicted.

I think in reality Evatt was a busted flush after losing to Barnsley in the play offs and it’s only gone downhill since then no matter what protestations he’s offered. And in doing so he’s also spent a fortune to fail to solve any of the problems we identified that season.

[jimbo]

Yesterday hurts more as we’d actually been on a decent run since the last implosion. ‘Evatt out’ had calmed down a bit, we were making progress up the league, and a win would have left us comfortably top 6, just outside the autos going into the international break. We’d have achieved that despite playing beneath our capabilities and could have had the confidence to push on. We’d have won tough games at Peterborough, Stevenage and Stockport, and it may have been a corner turned.

As it is, we’ve fallen apart spectacularly again. The same deficiencies that keep showing themselves reared their heads again. He has to go. It feels like we’re only the next tough game away from another performance like that.

We’re still not out of it this season, but I’d give a new manager far more chance of getting us up into the playoffs and beyond than sticking with Evatt.

[Worthy4England]

When we look at league table and assess that we're "top 6," we still have a fundamental problem.

Our defending is comedic. Even in a game where we scored 5, we still let 2 poor goals in. We are simply not good enough defensively. This gets pushed to back of mind, when you score 5. Easy to overlook. But it's there, was there last year and seems to be a complete blind spot. Yesterday's 4th goal, you'd have been disappointed if your cubs team had conceded it.

[BWFC_Insane]

When we look at league table and assess that we're "top 6," we still have a fundamental problem.

Our defending is comedic. Even in a game where we scored 5, we still let 2 poor goals in. We are simply not good enough defensively. This gets pushed to back of mind, when you score 5. Easy to overlook. But it's there, was there last year and seems to be a complete blind spot. Yesterday's 4th goal, you'd have been disappointed if your cubs team had conceded it.

Yep. Defending maybe suggests it’s isolated to one part of the team. But it’s our resistance off the ball generally. It’s not good enough. We are too easy to play through.

[Worthy4England]

When we look at league table and assess that we're "top 6," we still have a fundamental problem.

Our defending is comedic. Even in a game where we scored 5, we still let 2 poor goals in. We are simply not good enough defensively. This gets pushed to back of mind, when you score 5. Easy to overlook. But it's there, was there last year and seems to be a complete blind spot. Yesterday's 4th goal, you'd have been disappointed if your cubs team had conceded it.

Yep. Defending maybe suggests it’s isolated to one part of the team. But it’s our resistance off the ball generally. It’s not good enough. We are too easy to play through.

With you there, mate. I'm also on about the whole kaboosh. Not just tackling and heading. So yeah, off the ball, how we set up for set piece and time and again allow free headers. Transition through the MF or down the wings...it feels like an afterthought. I was out yesterday, so only caught the first 30, but I did spot 1-0 and said to missus, no point me looking again.

Yesterday wasn't really a surprise, we've seen it time and again in local games. Not just a "come out the wrong side of a 2-1" an absolute pummeling..

[DJBlu]

Slept on it, still angry at Evatt.

The system remained up until the 5th went in.

I listened to a pod cast from an ex Leeds player yesterday and he mentioned how Bielsa used to have tactics for every team they played, thus was the thesis for the training and they stuck at it.

I would love to think this is happening with us but I'm beginning to think we're a one trick pony that occasionally surprises with a back flip now and then.

I don't for one minute think they're isn't a formula to get out of this league but ours isn't cutting it.

That game yesterday was an absolute disgrace and the buck stops with the man at the top.

Sick of giving support and hoping it's going to happen but we're constantly reminded that this team is full of players that would be the cherry on the cake for other teams in the league. All looking around for that player who elsewhere would dig in and carry them.

Having the best players in the league only works if they are the best all the time. This lot aren't.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I do have to chuckle darkly at the idea that we bottled it in the play-off semis, then the year after we got worse and bottled it in the play-off final - nice of us to get a bye...

I get the narrative, of course, but it's absurdly simplistic and reductive to pretend we 've bottled every single big game ever - we've won semis, a final, we've won promotion.... however I do think we lose too many times, and too painfully. And increasingly, this season, too comprehensively: none of those previous Big Hurty Losses were by 4-0 at home or 5-0 down the road.

As to conceding too many goals - it's a fair point but I suspect a new manager could quickly tighten us up as well as gradually restructuring the squad to be better balanced.

[Harry Genshaw]

none of those previous Big Hurty Losses were by 4-0 at home .

A couple were!

A fresh pair of eyes coming in would surely be looking to tighten things up before paying attention to other areas. It appears IE, never a pragmatic chap, can no longer see the wood for the trees and is too wedded to his 'Barrowcelona' philosophy and approach.

I do believe this squad, with a couple of minor tweaks, are capable of top 2.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

none of those previous Big Hurty Losses were by 4-0 at home .

A couple were!

A fresh pair of eyes coming in would surely be looking to tighten things up before paying attention to other areas. It appears IE, never a pragmatic chap, can no longer see the wood for the trees and is too wedded to his 'Barrowcelona' philosophy and approach.

I do believe this squad, with a couple of minor tweaks, are capable of top 2.

Oh god yeah, I had literally blanked them out.....

Agree on the rest. Season's not over. But i don't think IE is our best bet to save it.

[BWFC_Insane]

I do have to chuckle darkly at the idea that we bottled it in the play-off semis, then the year after we got worse and bottled it in the play-off final - nice of us to get a bye...

I get the narrative, of course, but it's absurdly simplistic and reductive to pretend we 've bottled every single big game ever - we've won semis, a final, we've won promotion.... however I do think we lose too many times, and too painfully. And increasingly, this season, too comprehensively: none of those previous Big Hurty Losses were by 4-0 at home or 5-0 down the road.

As to conceding too many goals - it's a fair point but I suspect a new manager could quickly tighten us up as well as gradually restructuring the squad to be better balanced.

That’s not the point though is it? We didn’t show up in a massive game against Barnsley which was a portent for future problems.

It’s not like we lost it having thrown our all at it. Were that the case you could say we just need a bit of improvement. But we lost in a way that suggests there are and were more fundamental issues especially when the season after two of those players were playing in the premiership. No lack of quality. But a lack of real mental fortitude.

The issue is that a good manager would look at that game and conclude that we were mentally weak, didn’t show up on the biggest stage and needed to fix that. Evatt instead wanged on about being better at plan A - didn’t fix the underlying and last season happened. Not just the final. We all know the games all the way through that reflect those issues. And once again this season the same problems exist.

[DJBlu]

Just heard Jack Dearden, finally a question that gets to it.

You said that at Wembley and Huddersfield.

Well done sir.

[TANGODANCER]

Just eat a big slice of humble pie, Ian, and admit you got it badly wrong. Three weeks up in the rafters is hardly helping to back the team and eliminate your own behaviour, but even you can't be satisfied with the team efforts on the field. We were bossed, bullied and outplayed by basic lower league tactics and just folded like a house of cards. Everybody but you sees to know the reason and you're the one that's supposed to sort it. Time's running out for you quicker than Gary Cooper's High Noon clock. I'll support a fight back, but 5-0 against Stockport is hardly that.

[Mar]

Just heard Jack Dearden, finally a question that gets to it.

You said that at Wembley and Huddersfield.

Well done sir.

To look at Evatt's side of things. What else is he going to say? Hand's are pretty much tied.

There were loads of instances in his first season with us. That initial spell where we were defensively suspect was clear that we were playing risky football at the back and conceding sloppy goals. We'd had a record of W2D3L4 when we got pasted by Leyton Orient 4-0 making it the 5th loss of that season.

We won, 4 out of the next 5, drawing the other, and then we got lost 6-3 against Port Vale at home, bringing us onto our next poor run of form, W1D3L5 and then the January happened and happy days, shed loads of wins. Dapo, Lee, MJ and John, all game changers in that season.

The reason I bring these up, is that this is symptomatic of Evatt's teams from day one. The poor defending, the bottling of matches we should be winning, etc. it's all there, but Evatt doesn't have the excuses from that initial season. These are players that he's signed, a team that he's constructed and the ability to get battered multiple times in a season should be a thing of the past, especially for a team that's aiming for the top two.

I admire Mar's positivity that we're not far off the playoffs, so promotion is not yet shot, but I also agree with Worthy that the bar has been set higher. It's a shame and I don't dislike Evatt but I don't think he's ever going to win this battle; as I've said before, even if he won promotion (again) we'd only ever be two losses from huge loud questions about him.

That positivity is merely just me trying to look at both sides of the argument. Even after that, I still can't bring myself to fully get carried away with our recent upturn in fortunes. McGinlay mentioned pre-match that there wasn't enough credit being given to the players for the good run that we'd been on, and i'd be tempted to agree with that, but that's caveated with the fact that we hadn't been properly tested, and we knew there was another instance of fluffing our lines just around corner. Stockport 5-0 is a prime example of that.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I admire Mar's positivity that we're not far off the playoffs, so promotion is not yet shot, but I also agree with Worthy that the bar has been set higher.

That positivity is merely just me trying to look at both sides of the argument. Even after that, I still can't bring myself to fully get carried away with our recent upturn in fortunes. McGinlay mentioned pre-match that there wasn't enough credit being given to the players for the good run that we'd been on, and i'd be tempted to agree with that, but that's caveated with the fact that we hadn't been properly tested, and we knew there was another instance of fluffing our lines just around corner. Stockport 5-0 is a prime example of that.

Yeah, fair - thanks for seeing both sides.

As for the good run since Huddersfield, it would not be huge revisionism to note that our opponents were, at the kick-offs of the respective league games, 15th, 16th, 18th, 23rd (drew), 12th, 23rd, 1st (lost) and 13th. If you've set 2ppg and automatic promotion as the standards, then you'd expect to win all those bar the visit to the leaders (who, I notice, Northampton drew with yesterday). Such wins, while welcome, are not to be framed in the hall-of-fame gallery.

Each season recently I've mentioned ceilings and how we need to improve. In Evatt's second season we didn't get much against the top 8. Then it became the top 5. Last season it was just the top two. Now we've slipped badly backwards. Wrexham (then 4th, for what those early tables are worth) was the only half-decent team not to beat us to nil (you note we didn't score). Stockport were 10th. It is, manifestly, not good enough. And no amount of beating also-rans, good as it can be for morale while it happens, makes up for that if you collapse like a cheap tent in the slightest headwind.

[irie Cee Bee]

Good discussions here. Lets face it, the writting was on the wall ater Oxford las season. Evert system was 'found out'. The blueprint to beat us was clear for all good managers to see. We have been found out, and tactically Evatt is programmed and weak. I say this without malace. Its what I observed.

We were told we had money but completely messed upbthe transfer window. None of the players signed has improved us. Again due to Evatts miscalucalation, we are a man short. Even so, we gave loaned out our promisong midfielder who has gone backwards under him, and is now shinning for the league leaders. Unbelievable. Its obvious to me that Evatt is not the answer, and so each Saturday / Tuesday I watch the paint dry.. a slow death..knowing that our team as a whole is not good enough to get out of the league... latest watching Jones, Sheehan etc.. look to pass the ball backwards while limted Stockport players, when they get it, look up to move it foward, move, run, determined to do the thing that wins a football game.. score goals.

I woMder to myself, is it illness that causes Ade to be in our box defending corners when he does not know how to jump, and is easily brushed aside because he cant defend or be strong, leading to 2 easy set piece goals? What is he doing in there defending... just because he is tall.. if he is to be there, then teach him how to defend and jump or he is just going to casue confusion to his own players who believe he has his man when he doesnt.

Sigh.. i could go on.. but I wont. One thing for certain in my mind.. if Sh...t is up at top, it can only flow downwards. We need to clear up the top.