Lessons learned . Away to Cambridge Tues, 26th Nov. 1745.

[BWFC_Insane]

The thing is that whilst the buck stops with the manager who has had the luxury of putting this expensively assembled side together the players we have are mentally and physically weak. And a new manager can’t fix that simply with some new tactics.

This side needs ripping apart entirely and a new one building.

We’ve just given a two year deal to prime example as to why we aren’t that good a league one side. Sheehan is soft mentally and physically and not a player you want in a league one side aiming for promotion. Yet the clueless clowns decided a new deal was a good idea.

The players are bad eggs. We’ve got a team who are not here to fight but here to lie down. Everything that is wrong with modern football summed up in our side.

This is league one. It’s a scrap. We consistently have to tolerate players who clearly aren’t earning or respecting playing for this club. They need hounding and pushing out the door and then we can rebuild.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think now we are 4 months in it’s safe to say the league is not stronger than last season. Maybe top 8 are stronger but top 4 not as good.

Which is maybe surprising given the money spent. But looking at lack of experienced managers about perhaps explains why.

I think you’re the only person who hates him here and this is absolutely nothing like the Megson situation. With Megson it was day 1 with a bit of leeway midway through, but waiting for him to fail.

With Evatt, the large majority think he’s done a pretty good job overall. Some good memories, some great football, tons and tons of goals, but it needs to change

Irrespective Megson was unpopular before he started because most of our fans wanted a big name. He was a poor manager.

But he kept Bolton in the top flight with a budget initially that was tiny and although that increased it was still not particularly competitive in the league we were in. Ultimately the view was players were better than he allowed them to be. And of course clearly there was dressing room turmoil.

Now - we’ve spent an absolute fortune at a far lower level of football. And the reality is that the players aren’t held back by the manager. They are just an expensively assembled bunch of modern football players collectively lacking spines.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Megson spent as fortune on Danny Shittu FFS. You don't need to make Megson out to be good in order to say you think Evatt is shit.

A fresh set of ideas and new manager can get this lot where we want to be. Might need next season and a few tweaks to the squad, but it doesn't need totally ripping apart. Santos will be off, so that at least solves on e of Insanos big problems

[Frank Drebin]

Manager signs players who can’t deliver his ‘brand’.
Spends good money on players - better money than the likes of Wrexham and Stockport but we’ll soon be told we shouldn’t expect to compete with them and their investment. Gaslighting!

Yep, that’s the Evatt playbook in one.

I think a decent manager with a few tweaks could get the current squad winning, it’s not too late to save the season.

[Harry Genshaw]

Just feels like the end of a relationship. Both parties almost sick of the sight of each other now but hanging on, in case the magic reappears. They both know it won't and are already checking what's out there hoping the next one will be 'the one'.

[Bertie Wooster]

I think now we are 4 months in it’s safe to say the league is not stronger than last season. Maybe top 8 are stronger but top 4 not as good.

Which is maybe surprising given the money spent. But looking at lack of experienced managers about perhaps explains why.

I think you’re the only person who hates him here and this is absolutely nothing like the Megson situation. With Megson it was day 1 with a bit of leeway midway through, but waiting for him to fail.

With Evatt, the large majority think he’s done a pretty good job overall. Some good memories, some great football, tons and tons of goals, but it needs to change

Do they really ?, great football what about 6 or 7 games a season ! - I was in the 15,000 or so (yes it was reported as 22,000 etc. but there where lots of empty seats everywhere) at the Blackpool game on Saturday and loads and I mean loads of fans where slagging him off - its absolutely incorrect to say that the majority think he's done a pretty good job, he's won the Papa Johns and got us promoted from league 2 with the highest wage budget), its about 50/50 at best in regards to thinking he's done a decent job, in terms of wanting Evatt sacked ASAP its now about 80/20. I suspect against Mansfield next week the actual physical attendance will be even less, the fans have had enough and are voting with their feet.

He's a bang average robotic manager, the team is set out to play like robots - there are no leaders, no characters, no individuality, absolutely weak as feck - they are like sheep, this team / squad with Evatt in charge are going nowhere anytime soon - someone needs to take the chairman's blinkers off. I think that he'll be gone before Xmas as the next few games are quite challenging IMO unless we have no money and can't afford to get rid.

[BWFC_Insane]

Megson spent as fortune on Danny Shittu FFS. You don't need to make Megson out to be good in order to say you think Evatt is shit.

A fresh set of ideas and new manager can get this lot where we want to be. Might need next season and a few tweaks to the squad, but it doesn't need totally ripping apart. Santos will be off, so that at least solves on e of Insanos big problems

Relatively Megson had less to spend than Evatt. Relative to the competition.

He also did a better job under much more restrictive conditions.

But that’s not really my point. My point is that I can’t remember a set of players like this lot. Where they are so abjectly soft. Unforgivably so. We’ve had lack of quality. Poor managers. Megson was disliked by the players and therefore a fix of a new manager worked.

I don’t think these players dislike Evatt at all. I mean why would they? It’s easy street for them. New contracts in spite of repeated failure. But that means that there is no magic new manager fix without a window or two to make changes.

For me the whole spine of the team in both senses is problematic. Defensively our record is abysmal. Midfield we are lightweight and frankly carrying passengers and up front none of the strikers are firing really.

[Worthy4England]

I think now we are 4 months in it’s safe to say the league is not stronger than last season. Maybe top 8 are stronger but top 4 not as good.

Which is maybe surprising given the money spent. But looking at lack of experienced managers about perhaps explains why.

I think you’re the only person who hates him here and this is absolutely nothing like the Megson situation. With Megson it was day 1 with a bit of leeway midway through, but waiting for him to fail.

With Evatt, the large majority think he’s done a pretty good job overall. Some good memories, some great football, tons and tons of goals, but it needs to change

Irrespective Megson was unpopular before he started because most of our fans wanted a big name. He was a poor manager.

But he kept Bolton in the top flight with a budget initially that was tiny and although that increased it was still not particularly competitive in the league we were in. Ultimately the view was players were better than he allowed them to be. And of course clearly there was dressing room turmoil.

Now - we’ve spent an absolute fortune at a far lower level of football. And the reality is that the players aren’t held back by the manager. They are just an expensively assembled bunch of modern football players collectively lacking spines.

Our budget, during Megson was not "tiny," compared to the rest of the Prem and he inherited a team that finished 7th. Our record signing is still Elmander! I think Muamba might be 3rd. Zat Knight is probably in the top 10. 2.4m Danny Shittu! He managed a win rate only slightly higher than Sammy Lee!

[Worthy4England]

Megson spent as fortune on Danny Shittu FFS. You don't need to make Megson out to be good in order to say you think Evatt is shit.

A fresh set of ideas and new manager can get this lot where we want to be. Might need next season and a few tweaks to the squad, but it doesn't need totally ripping apart. Santos will be off, so that at least solves on e of Insanos big problems

Relatively Megson had less to spend than Evatt. Relative to the competition.

He also did a better job under much more restrictive conditions.

But that’s not really my point. My point is that I can’t remember a set of players like this lot. Where they are so abjectly soft. Unforgivably so. We’ve had lack of quality. Poor managers. Megson was disliked by the players and therefore a fix of a new manager worked.

I don’t think these players dislike Evatt at all. I mean why would they? It’s easy street for them. New contracts in spite of repeated failure. But that means that there is no magic new manager fix without a window or two to make changes.

For me the whole spine of the team in both senses is problematic. Defensively our record is abysmal. Midfield we are lightweight and frankly carrying passengers and up front none of the strikers are firing really.

Retcon alert.

I don't think trying to compare Evatt to some of the "absolute worst" we've had in our lifetimes is helpful. He's not that, despite me not liking his brand, "modern football," and lack of tactical nous.

[The_Gun]

This is not me defending Evatt, but it does minorly irritate me when people make out like he’s solely responsible for recruitment. Chris Markham and his team are the recruitment people, although Evatt obviously has a say as well. And look, our recruitment this summer was bad, but there’s more than one person to blame.

The bare facts are that after progressing for the last couple of seasons, narrowly missing out on promotion last time round, and then spending the second most in the division during the summer, we have now significantly regressed. That’s not acceptable.

Edit: I should also add that we began regressing at the end of last season and squandered the chance to go up automatically, before rolling over in the playoff final.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Relatively Megson had less to spend than Evatt. Relative to the competition.

He also did a better job under much more restrictive conditions.

But that’s not really my point. My point is that I can’t remember a set of players like this lot. Where they are so abjectly soft. Unforgivably so. We’ve had lack of quality. Poor managers. Megson was disliked by the players and therefore a fix of a new manager worked.

I don’t think these players dislike Evatt at all. I mean why would they? It’s easy street for them. New contracts in spite of repeated failure. But that means that there is no magic new manager fix without a window or two to make changes.

For me the whole spine of the team in both senses is problematic. Defensively our record is abysmal. Midfield we are lightweight and frankly carrying passengers and up front none of the strikers are firing really.

The problem is Evatt is obsessed with systems that either don't suit the players, or the players aren't capable of consistently performing well in. The players are drilled to repeat the patterns that are largely ineffective and slow the game down. There is little room for individuality. Give the players a basic structure and allow them to play with some freedom and I suspect it would be less turgid and more effective. He's gotten recruitment badly wrong, but even without additions this lot are capable of so much more. I also don't think they're as soft as you make out. You can see glimpses of determination, but largely they've been trained/programmed to repeat certain movements and passes. This sucks the passion us oldies miss from years gone by. It is very hard to identify with it, but its a modern football problem as much as an Evatt one. Its why you love old school managers.

[Worthy4England]

This is not me defending Evatt, but it does minorly irritate me when people make out like he’s solely responsible for recruitment. Chris Markham and his team are the recruitment people, although Evatt obviously has a say as well. And look, our recruitment this summer was bad, but there’s more than one person to blame.

The bare facts are that after progressing for the last couple of seasons, narrowly missing out on promotion last time round, and then spending the second most in the division during the summer, we have now significantly regressed. That’s not acceptable.

Edit: I should also add that we began regressing at the end of last season and squandered the chance to go up automatically, before rolling over in the playoff final.

This, in part, is why I don't like this operating model. Great when it works, but most models are. When it's less convincing (like now), one side sits there saying "right players signed, manager is using them wrong." Other side says "wrong players signed"...

[TANGODANCER]

Here are two I.E. options from kick-off.

1. We kick off; ball goes back to Santos and we invite the opposition in with dangerous silly tippy-tappy dangerous passing that ends with Baxter lashing the ball straight to a brick wall defence with no white shirts in sight, or into the stands.

2: They kick off, ball goes back to defence and then out to the left winger, who is in more space than Buzz Aldrin, is crossed and provides a good chance of a goal.
Next.... COME ON YOU WHITES.!.....

And thus it came to pass! It didn't need Nostradamus.

[Worthy4England]

Relatively Megson had less to spend than Evatt. Relative to the competition.

He also did a better job under much more restrictive conditions.

But that’s not really my point. My point is that I can’t remember a set of players like this lot. Where they are so abjectly soft. Unforgivably so. We’ve had lack of quality. Poor managers. Megson was disliked by the players and therefore a fix of a new manager worked.

I don’t think these players dislike Evatt at all. I mean why would they? It’s easy street for them. New contracts in spite of repeated failure. But that means that there is no magic new manager fix without a window or two to make changes.

For me the whole spine of the team in both senses is problematic. Defensively our record is abysmal. Midfield we are lightweight and frankly carrying passengers and up front none of the strikers are firing really.

The problem is Evatt is obsessed with systems that either don't suit the players, or the players aren't capable of consistently performing well in. The players are drilled to repeat the patterns that are largely ineffective and slow the game down. There is little room for individuality. Give the players a basic structure and allow them to play with some freedom and I suspect it would be less turgid and more effective. He's gotten recruitment badly wrong, but even without additions this lot are capable of so much more. I also don't think they're as soft as you make out. You can see glimpses of determination, but largely they've been trained/programmed to repeat certain movements and passes. This sucks the passion us oldies miss from years gone by. It is very hard to identify with it, but its a modern football problem as much as an Evatt one. Its why you love old school managers.

This broad notion about plan B, being a better plan A. Heard it on here lots. Sure it might work, as long as you can make the most dominant signings in the division that gel as a team. People have been conned by the "loads of goals" myth. If you look at it in the league, we scored 86 - that's pretty good, but it's not the absolute best, it was second in the League last year and 62 the season before was something like 9th, at the moment we're 8th. So best of luck with that singular view of the world.

Defensively, we are awful. 19th on goals conceded, because we can't defend even simple shit. I'm glad I know fcuk all about modern football, it enables me to form views like "I don't think that single equation is going to work for us." F25, A26. Yes we've still won 50% of our games, but if you aspire to the top, you're going to win lots of games - sorta comes with the territory - so it's as much "expected" as "wow isn't that great" (I mean it is great, better than winning 8 and wrestling at the other end, but not unsurprisingly great)

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

This is not me defending Evatt, but it does minorly irritate me when people make out like he’s solely responsible for recruitment. Chris Markham and his team are the recruitment people, although Evatt obviously has a say as well. And look, our recruitment this summer was bad, but there’s more than one person to blame.

The bare facts are that after progressing for the last couple of seasons, narrowly missing out on promotion last time round, and then spending the second most in the division during the summer, we have now significantly regressed. That’s not acceptable.

Edit: I should also add that we began regressing at the end of last season and squandered the chance to go up automatically, before rolling over in the playoff final.

This, in part, is why I don't like this operating model. Great when it works, but most models are. When it's less convincing (like now), one side sits there saying "right players signed, manager is using them wrong." Other side says "wrong players signed"...

I though it was the old first team coach training them wrong

If the model is manager tells Markham what he needs, along with anyone he's identified himself, and Markham gives him an analysis back. Evatt then does his own due diligence and determines who he wants, then I've no problem with the model. Without a Markham we'd probably just get more players Evatt knows which I don't think would improve things unless he's been hanging out with Citeh's players.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

This broad notion about plan B, being a better plan A. Heard it on here lots. Sure it might work, as long as you can make the most dominant signings in the division that gel as a team. People have been conned by the "loads of goals" myth. If you look at it in the league, we scored 86 - that's pretty good, but it's not the absolute best, it was second in the League last year and 62 the season before was something like 9th, at the moment we're 8th. So best of luck with that singular view of the world.

Defensively, we are awful. 19th on goals conceded, because we can't defend even simple shit. I'm glad I know fcuk all about modern football, it enables me to form views like "I don't think that single equation is going to work for us." F25, A26. Yes we've still won 50% of our games, but if you aspire to the top, you're going to win lots of games - sorta comes with the territory - so it's as much "expected" as "wow isn't that great" (I mean it is great, better than winning 8 and wrestling at the other end, but not unsurprisingly great)

I'm not a plan A, B or C type of guy. It is too rigid. We adapt to the situation in front of us and that means being less rigid and empowering players to get on with it. I don't believe the players have all individually decided to piss around with the ball until they feck it up. They are being told to do this to exploit a gap that never appears because it is too slow and predictable. If the defence were focusing on giving the ball to midfield to do shit and then concentrating on being in position to stop shit rather than receive a pass then we might be less shit at the back (I know there are other problems too). We've players capable of defending as we've seen them be better at it. Either they've got shitter or what they're told to do has got shitter.

[Worthy4England]

This is not me defending Evatt, but it does minorly irritate me when people make out like he’s solely responsible for recruitment. Chris Markham and his team are the recruitment people, although Evatt obviously has a say as well. And look, our recruitment this summer was bad, but there’s more than one person to blame.

The bare facts are that after progressing for the last couple of seasons, narrowly missing out on promotion last time round, and then spending the second most in the division during the summer, we have now significantly regressed. That’s not acceptable.

Edit: I should also add that we began regressing at the end of last season and squandered the chance to go up automatically, before rolling over in the playoff final.

This, in part, is why I don't like this operating model. Great when it works, but most models are. When it's less convincing (like now), one side sits there saying "right players signed, manager is using them wrong." Other side says "wrong players signed"...

I though it was the old first team coach training them wrong

If the model is manager tells Markham what he needs, along with anyone he's identified himself, and Markham gives him an analysis back. Evatt then does his own due diligence and determines who he wants, then I've no problem with the model. Without a Markham we'd probably just get more players Evatt knows which I don't think would improve things unless he's been hanging out with Citeh's players.

Yeah mate, I don't have a problem with "recruitment departments." Just this notion that they are the "constant" whilst you shuffle managers. The notion that was put to us was "that helps maintain the style of football so you don't need a new squad every time you change manager." I can see that too, but what happens when you get a season like this has started? As Gun said, is it all Evatt? 50/50 Evatt and Markham or all Markham?

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Yeah mate, I don't have a problem with "recruitment departments." Just this notion that they are the "constant" whilst you shuffle managers. The notion that was put to us was "that helps maintain the style of football so you don't need a new squad every time you change manager." I can see that too, but what happens when you get a season like this has started? As Gun said, is it all Evatt? 50/50 Evatt and Markham or all Markham?

Presumably Aunty Shaz knows whether Markham is doing leg work and therefore Evatt's fault, or if Markham is driving the recruitment. If I'm paying out for a player I'm asking what they are looking for and why player x is the answer. Given the Dan signing I'd be grilling the buggers before signing off. It is one thing identifying Dan as having potential, but another having him for half a season then spending the money. That has to be Evatt's judgement at that point. In short, for me it all depends what Markham's actual role is beyond identifying possibilities based on a criteria.

[TANGODANCER]

This, in part, is why I don't like this operating model. Great when it works, but most models are. When it's less convincing (like now), one side sits there saying "right players signed, manager is using them wrong." Other side says "wrong players signed"...

Aye,That's a big part of our problem, we don't do horses for courses, just same horses for all courses. You don't sign a Barry McGuigan to fight a Tyson Fury or race a Ford Focus against a Ferrari. Opposition teams know that if they throw themselves at every ball in our lightweight defence we either do the same and risk fouls or yellow cards, or get mugged by not tackling hard. Catch 22 it undoubtedly is. Possession without result is good for nothing except wasting energy: and how much of the stats are based in our own half? . Then again, it must be said, our own passing and dribbling skills are less than first class.

The answer? Quien Sabes? (who knows), it's all in the hands of the football moguls in the end. One thing nobody can argue with: we aren't good enough whatever the reason.

Amen.

[boltonboris]

We’ve just given a two year deal to prime example as to why we aren’t that good a league one side. Sheehan is soft mentally and physically and not a player you want in a league one side aiming for promotion. Yet the clueless clowns decided a new deal was a good idea.

You really do talk absolute horseshit sometimes. Once you've made your mind up about something, you cling onto it so violently that you end up spouting this kind of bollocks