The Debt.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Argue all you like but SKD was the Bolton we all loved, not on his own mind but you just knew the bugger would play with a broken leg if he could.
Say that about any of the pansy's today.

yes - nobody is disputing that... that doesn't mean that he is a serious contender for a takeover consortium bid, though, does it?

Course it does, with his missus behind him I reckon he'd be shorter odds on to be king than Charlie boy.

[Hoboh]

Argue all you like but SKD was the Bolton we all loved, not on his own mind but you just knew the bugger would play with a broken leg if he could.
Say that about any of the pansy's today.

yes - nobody is disputing that... that doesn't mean that he is a serious contender for a takeover consortium bid, though, does it?

I was comparing a player with a current dick head, not suggesting he took over.

[Hoboh]

Argue all you like but SKD was the Bolton we all loved, not on his own mind but you just knew the bugger would play with a broken leg if he could.
Say that about any of the pansy's today.

So was Nat Lofthouse but I'd not want him playing the next match.......

He was great as were many other players we've had turn out for us. He like a lot of the others have finished their careers. The problem is we replaced him with utter rubbish but still doesn't mean we should have kept him on.

You'd have a job there mate!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Anyway, we've got thirteen days left before Meltdown Day. As we all know 13 is not a good number. So to alleviate the stress I'm inviting you all to attend a Panic Fanny Stick Together Party tonight. We can gather in one great sticky lump on the steps outside the supporter's trust meeting - I'll send Kev a separate invite, he's probably never been to a stick-together before.

[jonnycooper]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -ruin.html

Latest from the Sun. I assume Nixon though it doesn't say.

Highlights (or lowlights):
£2.2M needed within 2 weeks to pay HMRC
£15M to get through till end of season
Holdsworth consortium backed off (claims article)
Debts putting off potential owners
One new consortium in talks
Kevin Davies trying to raise money from investors

I assume Kevin Davies. It's got his name all over it. It's just one big puff piece about him on a very small white charger battling the dragons...
(and it says a foreign consortium, so that's probably those Thais again)

bob on! did we forget his birthday again??

One thing we never did! Was forget his birthday

[LeverEnd]

A familiar story by now. No-one is going to buy the club, it's all just false hope.

[BWFC_Insane]

A familiar story by now. No-one is going to buy the club, it's all just false hope.

So you think liquidation and extinction then? Because someone buys us (eventually) or the club doesn't exist.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -ruin.html

Latest from the Sun. I assume Nixon though it doesn't say.

Highlights (or lowlights):
£2.2M needed within 2 weeks to pay HMRC
£15M to get through till end of season
Holdsworth consortium backed off (claims article)
Debts putting off potential owners
One new consortium in talks
Kevin Davies trying to raise money from investors

Also of note, if perhaps somewhat halfbaked and underexplained: the plan to sell off the car park for £25m.

Bolton’s most valuable asset is the car park adjacent to Middlebrook retail park and Birch wants to sell the land to raise the £25m that could bring salvation.

[palindromeofbolton]

The Sun article says this:

The Trotters supremo is only asking for a quid to walk away — and is writing off debts of £189m to do so

This is wrong, isn't it? I thought Davies wanted £20m or so? Would be a very different story not having to stump up that initial outlay - technically, new buyers wouldn't actually have to invest a penny if they were able to balance the books?!?!

[BWFC_Insane]

The Sun article says this:

The Trotters supremo is only asking for a quid to walk away — and is writing off debts of £189m to do so

This is wrong, isn't it? I thought Davies wanted £20m or so? Would be a very different story not having to stump up that initial outlay - technically, new buyers wouldn't actually have to invest a penny if they were able to balance the books?!?!

We don't know what Davies is asking for.

I suspect he won't get much. The new owners needs to put in considerable money though just to see us through a year. 15M if reports are correct.

That is year 1. Then what about improvements to the team and manager for the next year? Because no investor buys us looking to keep us bubbling around league one......the money is in the top flight. That has always been the issue. How much as an investor do you need to put in to a) clear the debt then b) get the club looking towards the top flight again.

Because that is the real cost to any football investor.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

The Sun article says this:

The Trotters supremo is only asking for a quid to walk away — and is writing off debts of £189m to do so

This is wrong, isn't it? I thought Davies wanted £20m or so? Would be a very different story not having to stump up that initial outlay - technically, new buyers wouldn't actually have to invest a penny if they were able to balance the books?!?!

We don't know what Davies is asking for.

I suspect he won't get much. The new owners needs to put in considerable money though just to see us through a year. 15M if reports are correct.

That is year 1. Then what about improvements to the team and manager for the next year? Because no investor buys us looking to keep us bubbling around league one......the money is in the top flight. That has always been the issue. How much as an investor do you need to put in to a) clear the debt then b) get the club looking towards the top flight again.

Because that is the real cost to any football investor.

Nobody goes around not selling a club because the potential buyers aren't going to invest in a business... that's plain nonsense. Sellers don't sell because buyers can't afford it. Therefore either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off.

[BWFC_Insane]

Nobody goes around not selling a club because the potential buyers aren't going to invest in a business... that's plain nonsense. Sellers don't sell because buyers can't afford it. Therefore either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off.

Or having had a look the potential buyers don't like the situation, the debt and the costs required to get any return on their investment. That is the point I'm making. Perhaps they came in, saw £15M needed just to get us through a year and thought "it'd cost us £15M a year to maintain this, to get it to a competitive level is even more".

You could easily be looking at 80-90M of investment to get us competing for the top flight. From an investor point of view that may not make sense.

[StaffsTrotter]

Nobody goes around not selling a club because the potential buyers aren't going to invest in a business... that's plain nonsense. Sellers don't sell because buyers can't afford it. Therefore either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off.

Or having had a look the potential buyers don't like the situation, the debt and the costs required to get any return on their investment. That is the point I'm making. Perhaps they came in, saw £15M needed just to get us through a year and thought "it'd cost us £15M a year to maintain this, to get it to a competitive level is even more".

You could easily be looking at 80-90M of investment to get us competing for the top flight. From an investor point of view that may not make sense.

are running costs of £15m really that high in terms of a championship club ?

[LeverEnd]

A familiar story by now. No-one is going to buy the club, it's all just false hope.

So you think liquidation and extinction then? Because someone buys us (eventually) or the club doesn't exist.

No I think we will continue to exist as Portsmouth did, but after admin, relegation and a horrible time. It may be that Holdsworths lot are better equipped to run a post-apocalyptic wanderers in the lower leagues.

[malcd1]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -ruin.html

Latest from the Sun. I assume Nixon though it doesn't say.

Highlights (or lowlights):
£2.2M needed within 2 weeks to pay HMRC
£15M to get through till end of season
Holdsworth consortium backed off (claims article)
Debts putting off potential owners
One new consortium in talks
Kevin Davies trying to raise money from investors

It says it is an "EXCLUSIVE by KEN LAWRENCE" not Nixon. Is he 'in the know'? I doubt it but these numbers have been banded about for quite a while now.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Nobody goes around not selling a club because the potential buyers aren't going to invest in a business... that's plain nonsense. Sellers don't sell because buyers can't afford it. Therefore either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off.

Or having had a look the potential buyers don't like the situation, the debt and the costs required to get any return on their investment. That is the point I'm making. Perhaps they came in, saw £15M needed just to get us through a year and thought "it'd cost us £15M a year to maintain this, to get it to a competitive level is even more".

You could easily be looking at 80-90M of investment to get us competing for the top flight. From an investor point of view that may not make sense.

But these aren't investors are they. All 'three' consotia (from what I can make out) require investors, as the consortia themselves don't have much more than beans to rub together. The background investors to the consortia sitting down are obviously not forthcoming with the money to the consortia because the consortia cannot placate the 'how do we get our money back when it all goes tits up' conundrum that the real background potential investors are demanding. Otherwise they'd have bought the club by now.
What is required is somebody with dosh. Somebody like an Abramovich (or an Apple*) who is filthy rich. But instead we've got people who are having to borrow money themselves.
*[Apple, by the way, have filed their accounts for the year and among other things they have $206 billion in cash - yes, cash - lying around. Can anyone with an i-phone drop 'em a text and get them interested in buying a football club. I won't even mind if they rename us Bolton i-Wanderers]

[BWFC_Insane]

Nobody goes around not selling a club because the potential buyers aren't going to invest in a business... that's plain nonsense. Sellers don't sell because buyers can't afford it. Therefore either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off.

Or having had a look the potential buyers don't like the situation, the debt and the costs required to get any return on their investment. That is the point I'm making. Perhaps they came in, saw £15M needed just to get us through a year and thought "it'd cost us £15M a year to maintain this, to get it to a competitive level is even more".

You could easily be looking at 80-90M of investment to get us competing for the top flight. From an investor point of view that may not make sense.

But these aren't investors are they. All 'three' consotia (from what I can make out) require investors, as the consortia themselves don't have much more than beans to rub together. The background investors to the consortia sitting down are obviously not forthcoming with the money to the consortia because the consortia cannot placate the 'how do we get our money back when it all goes tits up' conundrum that the real background potential investors are demanding. Otherwise they'd have bought the club by now.
What is required is somebody with dosh. Somebody like an Abramovich (or an Apple*) who is filthy rich. But instead we've got people who are having to borrow money themselves.
*[Apple, by the way, have filed their accounts for the year and among other things they have $206 billion in cash - yes, cash - lying around. Can anyone with an i-phone drop 'em a text and get them interested in buying a football club. I won't even mind if they rename us Bolton i-Wanderers]

Some of the consortia who have looked (the Thai one and Arab one) apparently did have considerable money behind them. That is of course different to wanting to invest lots of that money!

[BWFC_Insane]

Nobody goes around not selling a club because the potential buyers aren't going to invest in a business... that's plain nonsense. Sellers don't sell because buyers can't afford it. Therefore either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off.

Or having had a look the potential buyers don't like the situation, the debt and the costs required to get any return on their investment. That is the point I'm making. Perhaps they came in, saw £15M needed just to get us through a year and thought "it'd cost us £15M a year to maintain this, to get it to a competitive level is even more".

You could easily be looking at 80-90M of investment to get us competing for the top flight. From an investor point of view that may not make sense.

are running costs of £15m really that high in terms of a championship club ?

The 15M isn't the running costs. It is the shortfall between our costs and income. It is what someone needs to dip into their pocket and hand the club to get through to the end of the year. That is without improving a single thing. And that will only grow year on year if an investor (and we assume they would be) has the aim of getting the team competing for promotion. Because our income is unlikely to substantially rise but our costs will if we want better players, new manager etc.

[TANGODANCER]

Can we not pay HM Tax gatherers in chickens and rabbits? They used to be happy enough to take peoples' last sack of corn. They're the real bailiffs here aren't they? A whip round of eggs and veg and stuff should do it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Some of the consortia who have looked (the Thai one and Arab one) apparently did have considerable money behind them. That is of course different to wanting to invest lots of that money!

Well then that just brings me back to what I said earlier, which was: "...either Eddie is after a price more substantial than the £1 Kevin Davies quoted or the debts are more substantial than those that have publicly been quoted as having been written off" otherwise if the Thais had been genuine investors they'd have bought us by now.