The Debt.

[BWFC_Insane]

http://the72.co.uk/44046/potential-bolt ... ent-owner/

Oh dear.

This is just a paraphrase from Marc Iles in the boltonnews mentioning that talks had proceeded a little further and this is the stumbling block. If ED lets us go to the wall over a potential £2.2 mil then he's a grade A cnut.

The way I read that is that the new bods are ok with the 2.2mil but want indemnity against any future additional claims from the tax man, which could potentially be many millions....or nowt at all. Ed isn't happy with that. I wonder why? Does he know or suspect something?

That is how I read it. But surely we would know how much is owed to HMRC?

[Bruce Rioja]

Hope DSB doesn't mind me putting this up, however, there's an article on our decline in tomorrow's FourFourTwo.

Indeed. Written by my chauffeur for Saturday

Will nip out and buy a copy at lunchtime. You can hand a copy of my critique to your chauffeur en route .

[LeverEnd]

That is how I read it. But surely we would know how much is owed to HMRC?

You'd have thought so, but then remember £600k turned into £2.2mill almost overnight!!

[jonnycooper]

I was assuming this HMRC bill is paye taxes for players,and as they weren't paid,the tax bill climbed! But then wouldn't players be PLC,s themselves? Strictly for tax purposes of course.I have no idea whether players become employees with holiday and sickness benefits,but I would assume they go the self employed route( )

[Beefheart]

I was assuming this HMRC bill is paye taxes for players,and as they weren't paid,the tax bill climbed! But then wouldn't players be PLC,s themselves? Strictly for tax purposes of course.I have no idea whether players become employees with holiday and sickness benefits,but I would assume they go the self employed route( )

Na, it'd be a hard stretch for them to claim to be self employed. I can't remember the actual criteria, but it's stuff like - can you get someone else to complete the work instead of you? - can you work according to your own hours? - are you free to work for other people? etc

In fact, here's the list from the HMRC website:

they’re in business for themselves, are responsible for the success or failure of their business and can make a loss or a profit
they can decide what work they do and when, where or how to do it
they can hire someone else to do the work
they’re responsible for fixing any unsatisfactory work in their own time
their employer agrees a fixed price for their work - it doesn’t depend on how long the job takes to finish
they use their own money to buy business assets, cover running costs, and provide tools and equipment for their work
they can work for more than one client

[BWFC_Insane]

That is how I read it. But surely we would know how much is owed to HMRC?

You'd have thought so, but then remember £600k turned into £2.2mill almost overnight!!

But the number was reported, it wasn't direct from the club. And also since that number reported in November, presumably we have accrued further penalties and amounts owing? But heaven to god it should be known what has been paid and what is owing. If that isn't known then christ alive we're in an even bigger mess than anyone realised.

[thebish]

That is how I read it. But surely we would know how much is owed to HMRC?

You'd have thought so, but then remember £600k turned into £2.2mill almost overnight!!

But the number was reported, it wasn't direct from the club. And also since that number reported in November, presumably we have accrued further penalties and amounts owing? But heaven to god it should be known what has been paid and what is owing. If that isn't known then christ alive we're in an even bigger mess than anyone realised.

I'm sure we're not in a bigger mess than you realised - ages ago!

[BWFC_Insane]

That is how I read it. But surely we would know how much is owed to HMRC?

You'd have thought so, but then remember £600k turned into £2.2mill almost overnight!!

But the number was reported, it wasn't direct from the club. And also since that number reported in November, presumably we have accrued further penalties and amounts owing? But heaven to god it should be known what has been paid and what is owing. If that isn't known then christ alive we're in an even bigger mess than anyone realised.

I'm sure we're not in a bigger mess than you realised - ages ago!

I had absolutely no idea things were as bad as they are. I knew we were losing money and I knew Eddie wasn't backing more additions to the squad. But I naively assumed he would carry on picking up the running cost deficit until new owners were found.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

That is how I read it. But surely we would know how much is owed to HMRC?

You'd have thought so, but then remember £600k turned into £2.2mill almost overnight!!

But the number was reported, it wasn't direct from the club. And also since that number reported in November, presumably we have accrued further penalties and amounts owing? But heaven to god it should be known what has been paid and what is owing. If that isn't known then christ alive we're in an even bigger mess than anyone realised.

It was always reported as £2.2 million. The £600k is the overdue PAYE etc that the winding order is about. The rest is (over)due but is not being demanded in the courts, yet.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Anyway. Today is now Tomorrow and Harry has four more days before he joins his sticky self to us panic fannies.

[Harry Genshaw]

Anyway. Today is now Tomorrow and Harry has four more days before he joins his sticky self to us panic fannies.

Nah, I've gone the opposite way now, particularly after reading the trust thread. The amount of money involved is ludicrous and immoral imo. Why anyone would want to be part of the world of football finance where such huge sums are spunked on average players and agents is beyond me.

We've had a good run. We can re-form on an amateur basis for me now

[Hoboh]

Anyway. Today is now Tomorrow and Harry has four more days before he joins his sticky self to us panic fannies.

Nah, I've gone the opposite way now, particularly after reading the trust thread. The amount of money involved is ludicrous and immoral imo. Why anyone would want to be part of the world of football finance where such huge sums are spunked on average players and agents is beyond me.

We've had a good run. We can re-form on an amateur basis for me now

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

[BWFC_Insane]

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

A ludicrous argument. Football was of course ever so healthy pre-Murdoch.......

Of course the huge influx of money has had massive downsides, but to say it "stole it from ordinary Joe public" is nonsensical. Attendances have gone up, have they not? TV viewing figures have remained high. They made it more accessible.

Yes they changed the structure of the game forever and in many ways, hurt the competitiveness of the game but at some point the larger clubs were going to do that anyway, with or without the likes of Sky. It was only a matter of time.

[thebish]

Anyway. Today is now Tomorrow and Harry has four more days before he joins his sticky self to us panic fannies.

Nah, I've gone the opposite way now, particularly after reading the trust thread. The amount of money involved is ludicrous and immoral imo. Why anyone would want to be part of the world of football finance where such huge sums are spunked on average players and agents is beyond me.

We've had a good run. We can re-form on an amateur basis for me now

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

don't forget the immigrants! and Corbyn!

[Bruno3]

It's all Jimmy Hill's fault

[LeverEnd]

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

A ludicrous argument. Football was of course ever so healthy pre-Murdoch.......

Of course the huge influx of money has had massive downsides, but to say it "stole it from ordinary Joe public" is nonsensical. Attendances have gone up, have they not? TV viewing figures have remained high. They made it more accessible.

Yes they changed the structure of the game forever and in many ways, hurt the competitiveness of the game but at some point the larger clubs were going to do that anyway, with or without the likes of Sky. It was only a matter of time.

Capitalist sympathiser! Leave Comrade Hoboh alone.

[Hoboh]

Anyway. Today is now Tomorrow and Harry has four more days before he joins his sticky self to us panic fannies.

Nah, I've gone the opposite way now, particularly after reading the trust thread. The amount of money involved is ludicrous and immoral imo. Why anyone would want to be part of the world of football finance where such huge sums are spunked on average players and agents is beyond me.

We've had a good run. We can re-form on an amateur basis for me now

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

don't forget the immigrants! and Corbyn!

Wrong thread mate!

[Hoboh]

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

A ludicrous argument. Football was of course ever so healthy pre-Murdoch.......

Of course the huge influx of money has had massive downsides, but to say it "stole it from ordinary Joe public" is nonsensical. Attendances have gone up, have they not? TV viewing figures have remained high. They made it more accessible.

Yes they changed the structure of the game forever and in many ways, hurt the competitiveness of the game but at some point the larger clubs were going to do that anyway, with or without the likes of Sky. It was only a matter of time.

Ludicrous?
Players did okay before sky etc., fans had clubs they could really relate to.
Yes there always was the odd club with more means than others but would football really have collapsed if they had pissed off and started some Euro league?
Money came into the game and common sense went out the window.

[Bruce Rioja]

Agents seem to be wriggling off the hook here. Those leaching c*nts are responsible all that's bad in the game.

[BWFC_Insane]

Murdoch, Spanish banks, German car manufacturers, Italian mafia, killed football or more to the point, stole it from ordinary Joe public.
Sorry, almost forgot the Spanish royal family and government for Madrid!

A ludicrous argument. Football was of course ever so healthy pre-Murdoch.......

Of course the huge influx of money has had massive downsides, but to say it "stole it from ordinary Joe public" is nonsensical. Attendances have gone up, have they not? TV viewing figures have remained high. They made it more accessible.

Yes they changed the structure of the game forever and in many ways, hurt the competitiveness of the game but at some point the larger clubs were going to do that anyway, with or without the likes of Sky. It was only a matter of time.

Ludicrous?
Players did okay before sky etc., fans had clubs they could really relate to.
Yes there always was the odd club with more means than others but would football really have collapsed if they had pissed off and started some Euro league?
Money came into the game and common sense went out the window.

But it hasn't been "robbed from the ordinary Joe public". If anything more of the public watch it now than they did then. It is more accessible.

Are the players, paid too much? Yes. Are the players more likely to be driving a sports car and drinking in expensive clubs? Yes.

But it hasn't been robbed. The sky money actually brought about a lot of good. As well as some bad things. In fact it isn't really the money that is the issue, more the distribution and balance of power within the game. But that would be little different, and was little different, even if sky hadn't rocked up with a TV deal. Imagine sky hadn't secured TV rights, do you really think the likes of Man Utd and Liverpool wouldn't have gone alone to sell their games all over the world or online? Of course they would. The game was always going to change one way or another over time.