Do Owls poo in the Reebok woods?

[wigan white]

I'm probably on my own in this but I can see what DF is tryinh to do, however his gameplan revolves around lots of movement from the 4 attacking players. Unfortunately, only Danns showed for the ball. Eagles, Beckford and even Feeney were too static all match and offered no outlet for the others to pass too, although Feeney did have 2players marking him most of the time he was on the pitch. Im not excusing Spearing and Medo's poor passing but the lack of movement didnt help them and it was evident from them walking off at half time and throughout the game they were pissed off with Eagles and Beckford not moving off the ball.
Even though Eagles has the potential to be a very good player, I feel everything he does is for show with no substance behind it..."look at me sprint towards their right back whose got the ball, im not going to tackle him, but look at me run towards him anyway"!!!!

What is he trying to do?

Hes trying to control the game both with and without the ball like he did at palace but the problem he has here is the lack of workrate and movement from our players, he (in theory) has a solid back 4 with spearing and medo anchoring infront of them, and the forward 4 have free reign to attack, the problem is (except Danns) is that they dont move when we attack and they neglect their defensive duties when the opposition attack leaving the back 6 to be over run. It also relies on your front man being able to hold the ball up like Murray did at Palace, unfortunately we dont have a player like him. If we could mix Ngog and Beckford into one player then currently we're buggered.

[Annoyed Grunt]

I'm probably on my own in this but I can see what DF is tryinh to do, however his gameplan revolves around lots of movement from the 4 attacking players. Unfortunately, only Danns showed for the ball. Eagles, Beckford and even Feeney were too static all match and offered no outlet for the others to pass too, although Feeney did have 2players marking him most of the time he was on the pitch. Im not excusing Spearing and Medo's poor passing but the lack of movement didnt help them and it was evident from them walking off at half time and throughout the game they were pissed off with Eagles and Beckford not moving off the ball.
Even though Eagles has the potential to be a very good player, I feel everything he does is for show with no substance behind it..."look at me sprint towards their right back whose got the ball, im not going to tackle him, but look at me run towards him anyway"!!!!

What is he trying to do?

Hes trying to control the game both with and without the ball like he did at palace but the problem he has here is the lack of workrate and movement from our players, he (in theory) has a solid back 4 with spearing and medo anchoring infront of them, and the forward 4 have free reign to attack, the problem is (except Danns) is that they dont move when we attack and they neglect their defensive duties when the opposition attack leaving the back 6 to be over run. It also relies on your front man being able to hold the ball up like Murray did at Palace, unfortunately we dont have a player like him. If we could mix Ngog and Beckford into one player then currently we're buggered.

Cheers for that..

[wigan white]

I'm probably on my own in this but I can see what DF is tryinh to do, however his gameplan revolves around lots of movement from the 4 attacking players. Unfortunately, only Danns showed for the ball. Eagles, Beckford and even Feeney were too static all match and offered no outlet for the others to pass too, although Feeney did have 2players marking him most of the time he was on the pitch. Im not excusing Spearing and Medo's poor passing but the lack of movement didnt help them and it was evident from them walking off at half time and throughout the game they were pissed off with Eagles and Beckford not moving off the ball.
Even though Eagles has the potential to be a very good player, I feel everything he does is for show with no substance behind it..."look at me sprint towards their right back whose got the ball, im not going to tackle him, but look at me run towards him anyway"!!!!

What is he trying to do?

Hes trying to control the game both with and without the ball like he did at palace but the problem he has here is the lack of workrate and movement from our players, he (in theory) has a solid back 4 with spearing and medo anchoring infront of them, and the forward 4 have free reign to attack, the problem is (except Danns) is that they dont move when we attack and they neglect their defensive duties when the opposition attack leaving the back 6 to be over run. It also relies on your front man being able to hold the ball up like Murray did at Palace, unfortunately we dont have a player like him. If we could mix Ngog and Beckford into one player then currently we're buggered.

Cheers for that..

Glad to be of assistance

[Annoyed Grunt]

I'm probably on my own in this but I can see what DF is tryinh to do, however his gameplan revolves around lots of movement from the 4 attacking players. Unfortunately, only Danns showed for the ball. Eagles, Beckford and even Feeney were too static all match and offered no outlet for the others to pass too, although Feeney did have 2players marking him most of the time he was on the pitch. Im not excusing Spearing and Medo's poor passing but the lack of movement didnt help them and it was evident from them walking off at half time and throughout the game they were pissed off with Eagles and Beckford not moving off the ball.
Even though Eagles has the potential to be a very good player, I feel everything he does is for show with no substance behind it..."look at me sprint towards their right back whose got the ball, im not going to tackle him, but look at me run towards him anyway"!!!!

What is he trying to do?

Hes trying to control the game both with and without the ball like he did at palace but the problem he has here is the lack of workrate and movement from our players, he (in theory) has a solid back 4 with spearing and medo anchoring infront of them, and the forward 4 have free reign to attack, the problem is (except Danns) is that they dont move when we attack and they neglect their defensive duties when the opposition attack leaving the back 6 to be over run. It also relies on your front man being able to hold the ball up like Murray did at Palace, unfortunately we dont have a player like him. If we could mix Ngog and Beckford into one player then currently we're buggered.

Cheers for that..

Glad to be off assistance

Can't see it myself like......

[wigan white]

Hes trying to control the game both with and without the ball like he did at palace but the problem he has here is the lack of workrate and movement from our players, he (in theory) has a solid back 4 with spearing and medo anchoring infront of them, and the forward 4 have free reign to attack, the problem is (except Danns) is that they dont move when we attack and they neglect their defensive duties when the opposition attack leaving the back 6 to be over run. It also relies on your front man being able to hold the ball up like Murray did at Palace, unfortunately we dont have a player like him. If we could mix Ngog and Beckford into one player then currently we're buggered.[/quote]

Cheers for that..[/quote]

Glad to be off assistance [/quote]

Can't see it myself like......[/quote]

Like I said, I can see what hes trying to do but I dont think we have the right players to do it, now whether thats Dougies fault or the fact we couldnt afford them is another question to be asked and also if he should be playing another way if hes not got the right players to play a specific way.

[SmokinFrazier]

The problem we have defensively is we allow ourselves to be bullied by opposition teams because we don't close them down. We get close to their attackers is when they're inside our box but, for whatever reason, Freedman wants his players to invite pressure and let them get into dangerous positions. There's no urgency at all. We don't press in midfield or when they're attacking, we jut let them come onto us until they're in a threatening area which is ridiculous. It's some of the worst defending I've ever seen and it's entirely down to Freedman's tactics. We play four defenders and two defensive midfielders but what's the point in playing them if they're not going to be asked to get stuck in and break up play in midfield? Even when we had a central midfield trio of Medo, Spearing and Ream, we still didn't close them down enough.

When we play attacking football, we aren't a bad side because the players we have are talented but we're giving away the advantages we have because of Freedman's negativity. He sets his teams up like we're facing an attack of Falcao, Messi, Cavani and Ronaldo each week. It's terrible management.

Maybe the squad we have is different to what Freedman had at Palace but that's irrelevant. He's not the Palace manager anymore and it's job to adapt to the team, not to ask Beckford to play like Murray, Eagles to play like Zaha, Spearing to play like Jedinak etc.. He's our manager and these are his players. He needs to get the best out of them and he simply isn't doing that.

[LeverEnd]

Agree totally with this. He's had enough time to make an impact. If there was even steady progress being made I'd be up for giving him more time but he's taking us backwards and players are getting worse under his management. He's failing on every conceivable level from what I can see.

[a1]

did we lose ?

[Harry Genshaw]

The problem we have defensively is we allow ourselves to be bullied by opposition teams because we don't close them down. We get close to their attackers is when they're inside our box but, for whatever reason, Freedman wants his players to invite pressure and let them get into dangerous positions. There's no urgency at all. We don't press in midfield or when they're attacking, we jut let them come onto us until they're in a threatening area which is ridiculous. It's some of the worst defending I've ever seen and it's entirely down to Freedman's tactics. We play four defenders and two defensive midfielders but what's the point in playing them if they're not going to be asked to get stuck in and break up play in midfield? Even when we had a central midfield trio of Medo, Spearing and Ream, we still didn't close them down enough.

When we play attacking football, we aren't a bad side because the players we have are talented but we're giving away the advantages we have because of Freedman's negativity. He sets his teams up like we're facing an attack of Falcao, Messi, Cavani and Ronaldo each week. It's terrible management.

Maybe the squad we have is different to what Freedman had at Palace but that's irrelevant. He's not the Palace manager anymore and it's job to adapt to the team, not to ask Beckford to play like Murray, Eagles to play like Zaha, Spearing to play like Jedinak etc.. He's our manager and these are his players. He needs to get the best out of them and he simply isn't doing that.

Agreed. I keep thinking perhaps he's doing something really clever and it's all going to click into place, and that I just don't have the foresight to understand what it is. I think it's because I'm scared of what the alternative is.

It would be nice if next week we went out not worrying about the opposition, but showed some real courage, went on the offensive and let them worry about us for a change.

[LeverEnd]

It would be nice if next week we went out not worrying about the opposition, but showed some real courage, went on the offensive and let them worry about us for a change.

This is the problem. We might have lucked out a lot on that run last season, but we also played with two strikers and had a proper go at teams, because we were so far behind that it didn't really matter if we lost. Even Dougie said that draws were no good.
Now he's just regressed us to the point that we are as bad as we were under Coyle. Like his predecessor he's learnt nothing from that and stubbornly gone back to the same old shite that was failing before because that's his way. And we have to all be patient whilst paying to watch said shite because it'll all be good in the end (and he knows about football and we don't).

[boltonboris]

News just in:

Spearing's just this second gotten to a second ball. Don't think he's left the ground yet though, as he's still looking for their midfielders.

[alonga6]

Good point against the mighty Owls!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

sorry - haven't really got the stomach for any of this - too depressing...

I really miss the days of the T-W Spy.

can you imagine how depressing that would be nowadays!!

Probably loads of Wednesday fans saying they didn't win cos their players and managers are shit, Brum fans saying we beat them because their players and manager are shit... same shit, different teams...

Very quick glance at OwlsTalk, without Bish's lovely witty commentary, cos I've no time or inclination:

Reaction to selection:

Jesus. Zayatte and Semedo start.

I'm amazed he's gone with Johnson and Zayatte considering how shite they are together.

Midfield is just woeful.

poo poo side again. WTF is wrong with Maghoma not getting a game? The lad was on fire last season (so what if it was League 2) give him a flipping chance Jones you tosser.

Just spit mi coffee out, Jones we will have a chance fighting to get out of this division! League 1 maybe

First ten minutes:

Zayatte sounds poo poo again

Zayatte is dog shiit

Zayatte is VVANK!!!

Sounds a dire team...............again..............FFS give some of our youngsters a chance for a change................mind you I'd settle for a loss if we could get rid of the fat boring one.

Reaction to Bolton's goal:

DJ OUT!!

surprise surprise

Zayatte you smelly fanny. JONES YOU HAVE un-workable THIS ONE UP YOU FAT crocklefish.

Sick and tired of this same sh1te game after game

OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT OUT. roger OFF

im not even angry anymore ,this is becoming normal for us

Well done dj u fooking idiot. Sack the useless coont at half time milan

Watched Boltons last game and Beckford looked back to his Leeds form why couldnt we have come up against the Leicester version

The funny thing is - most Bolton fans have said how awful they've been this season... Clearly not as bad as us. Embarrassing.

feck* so shuffle sick of this now!! How the roger has this fat bell end still got a job. Utterly depressing and feel complete apathy

Reaction to Baptiste's OG:

We need another own goal as we couldn't score in a brothel at the moment.

Are we gonna regret this second half, when we don't take advantage and then they do in the second half!!

Second bottom now FFS............soon we'll be cast adrift and have NO chance

we've already failed against poo poo this season. Yeovil

Normally I would be happy with a point at Bolton but not today and the fact we haven't won all season, 3 points or Jones should be gone

just got up to speed to find we are dogshiite yet again, Demo has decided to drop one who was playing well and move one back to a position where he doesn't play well.

Second half, Wednesday on top:

this is half the problem, you just have to take advantage when you are on top like this cos at some point bolton will have a 10-15 minute spell.

Another gone begging!!! Will finish 2-1 to Bolton!

We couldn't score in a brothel. You just know what is going to happen - it's too predictable.

Why oh why do we always hit the ball outside the post.....must be all those hours on the practice ground

this is just the sort of game we usually end up losing!!!

sounds like we are playing ok, time for jones to make a change and try and hang on for the draw

He never makes a change for the better. Usually an attacking threat off for a defensive option. Usually drops us between 1 and 3 points.

Disallowed Wednesday goal:

Playing well but it looks like same old, same old!!

Yet again this is just showing how desperate we are for a decent striker or 2. We've known this for fookin ages though

Semedo sent off:

thats what happens when league 1 calibre players try to make the step up

(Semedo in tears)

He wants to try watching every week.

FT

You just know people are going to say we played well blah blah blah. Seriously what does it matter, all that matters is the 3 points and we haven't won once all season. We are a laughing stock

How many games is this without a win (apart from Middlesborough)?

Another game without 3 points. Performances don't matter, there is a gap forming now at the bottom.

How bad would we be without kirkland!

OMG..............now it's Jones out or I'm out.....................sick and tired of excuses............Martin O'Niell and new Owners in............get it done FFS

Pack your bag Jones and fook off, worst start in our history!?!

Disappointing result. Can't believe we didn't win.

Fook off Jones

Should have gone a month ago. Get the emotionless nob out NOW.

You can't go on a run as bad as this and keep on claiming it's bad luck. Sooner or later you have to accept there's more wrong than just our luck. I'm sorry but Dave Jones deserves the sack.

wait til we start playing more top half teams.. been abysmal versus other bottom teams

I'm blaming him for not picking up a win so far this season. That's not down to bad luck. That's not down to shite officiating. That's not down to Milan not spending a bit more. It's down the manager. Win next week. No excuses. Simple as that.

etc etc

[Loyal White]

There is a quote in there that is hitting home with me.

"You can't go on a run as bad as this and keep on claiming it's bad luck. Sooner or later you have to accept there's more wrong than just our luck."

I like Dougie, I've bought into him, but sooner or later we need to start addressing our issues.

[Worthy4England]

I'm still trying to work out which country that lot's from?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

(Semedo in tears)

He wants to try watching every week.

This made me laugh...

[Norpig]

What baffles me and it does every week is why does DF wait until the last 15 minutes to bring on a player with pace and play with 2 strikers. We had more shots on target in the last 15 minutes than we did the whole of the match!!

If it was not for 2 excellent saves from the pie eating reject we would have won this match, however, if he had played with a bit more adventure from the beginning we would have won this match. It is just way to defensive which I could understand against teams near the top but we were playing a team which had not won all season, showed no real threat up front and were worse than us in midfield (which was a shock).

We are now at a point where we need to start winning not drawing games especially at home we need to having a real go at teams. If we did this the opposition would not get chance to dominate the game as they will be forced to back off, as was the case when we went for it after 75 mins on Saturday.

[TANGODANCER]

Crocklefish?

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Indeed. It's not just being scared of attacking teams in the top half, it's being scared of attacking teams at home. As with many a counter-attacking philosophy, the DFensive masterplan might work away, but it's different at home - with disaffected punters and wily visitors alike expecting the home team to take the lead, metaphorically if not actually.

Strikes me that this formation - if it is to be stuck with at all at home - requires a change in the sitters. Instead of Medo and Spearing it needs an incisive and decisive passer (Mavies?) willing and able to release the three in front of him, who should have enough pace to frighten the opposition and enough rope to do so rather than falling into a flat five fearful of losing possession and increasingly isolated from the front man.

Again, part of that is the transformation from defence to attack (and back again) - a transformation we seem to have had trouble with for, oh, the thick end of a decade. But it's certainly Freedman's responsibility now.

[thebish]

^ I thought Moritz was DF's favoured genie in the bottle to help in this defense-attack flow - unlocking the goalscoring dynamite currently hidden inside Beckford.. yet he seems reluctant to use him...