Forest match thread

[Worthy4England]

Can we stop confusing a good "blame Knight" viewpoint, with spurious levels of appropriate detail? It's in danger of de-bunking popular rhetoric.

[Enoch]

It's in danger of de-bunking popular rhetoric.

[Mar]

Knight got miles nearer stopping the goal from the position he took up than he would've done if he'd been level with Mills

If we're just looking for folk to blame, let's drag Lonergan in - from the moment the pass is played, Patterson covers 18 yards while Lonergan covers 8

Lonergan could've come for it. Knight could've been closer to the ball. Spearing could've handled the run better. Milles could've been closer. Lets just blame them all shall we?

There's a lot of players who could've done more. But in all honesty it looks like a well worked goal that punishes a collection of minor mistakes, none of which I believe the players should be overly disgruntled about.

[Lord Kangana]

Knight is shit. End of. Doesn't matter whether it was his fault this time, it will be again all too soon in the future because of some major cock-up he makes. Hence the endless back and forth debate about whether he's shit or just alright. Rest assured, its because he's shit. And he is. Deep down everyone knows it.

[SmokinFrazier]

yeah, the well known 'charge defence'. Just like the mobile Mertesacker would have.

Aye playing a high line is particularly effective against midfield runners like Paterson.....errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It's more effective than 3 defenders holding a high line and one defender being two metres behind the other two, leaving a ridiculously large gap in the defence which the eventual goalscorer ran straight through. That gap should not have been there yet Knight created it by following their striker, rather than just allow him to run offside and make himself redundant.

There's no way that's good defending. If you seriously think that Knight did the right thing, watch more football. When is it ever the right thing for one defender to be so far behind the line, leaving such large gaps?! Knight should have known he could play their striker offside by closing the gap and had he done that, he'd have been in a much better position to intercept their pass, which is why his positioning was so bad. It's just wrong to argue otherwise.

[boltonboris]

Knight wasn't the only one keeping him onside FFS. He ran in behind the I there's and Knight tried to cover him. Yes, the line was all over the place, but it was a perfect run and one that deserved a goal. Are we going to pick apart the goal we scored too? Sometimes, you have to just accept that good football can hurt you. Of you can't accept that Smoking Frazer, perhaps you should "watch more football"

[bobo the clown]

... & there's the thing about all goals. They are invariably the result of some technical error by the defence ... even if that error is the result of high quality play by the opponents.

It's very mealy-mouthed to analyse it to death.

[Prufrock]

There's nothing worse than being patronised by an idiot!

I'm always sus of folk who say 'he should have played him offside' rather than the subtly, but importantly, different, 'he shouldn't have played him onside'. Sometimes those people really know what they're on about; most of the time they're Champ Man Heroes.

I don't like offside traps myself, I think defenders should concentrate on defending against the players on the pitch rather than their positions. That said, part of defending properly has to incorporate an idea of offside. Many a time over his Bolton career you would be right for criticising Knight for switching off and drifting behind his partner, on the blind-side, and playing people onside. That's not what happened here though! Mills and Knight start OK, backtracking together, then Mills stops, then Mills comes out. If you're asking Knight to stay level with Mills, you're asking him to stay square, against two a man and two runners when there is no pressure on the ball. You can not play offside without pressure on the ball. It's not even like he's drifting, because he's got a man.

If it has to be painfully over-analysed (and whilst I hope the coaching staff are doing, I think as others have said that sometimes as fans we should just say 'fair enough, good goal) then it's mainly Mills at fault IMO. He should have carried on backtracking and slowing them down and allowing (I think it's) Mavies to get goal-side, which he was trying to do. Instead he came out, slowly at first, making Cox make a decision, he slipped in a lovely through-ball and it was a great finish. I also reckon if he'd done that Spearing would look a lot less stupid because I think he was trying to pass Paterson on to Mills, who suddenly charged out leaving a pocket behind him. I can see why Mills came out though, it's not fun backtracking from someone running at you at pace and he was trying to 'do something'. I'm sure folk will disagree with a lot of that^, many with good points. Someone saying that Knight should have left his man, to charge out and mark space just to get in line with his partner when there was no pressure on the ball won't be one of them though.

[BWFC_Insane]

yeah, the well known 'charge defence'. Just like the mobile Mertesacker would have.

Aye playing a high line is particularly effective against midfield runners like Paterson.....errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It's more effective than 3 defenders holding a high line and one defender being two metres behind the other two, leaving a ridiculously large gap in the defence which the eventual goalscorer ran straight through. That gap should not have been there yet Knight created it by following their striker, rather than just allow him to run offside and make himself redundant.

There's no way that's good defending. If you seriously think that Knight did the right thing, watch more football. When is it ever the right thing for one defender to be so far behind the line, leaving such large gaps?! Knight should have known he could play their striker offside by closing the gap and had he done that, he'd have been in a much better position to intercept their pass, which is why his positioning was so bad. It's just wrong to argue otherwise.

Brilliant. If Mills and Ream aren't drawn to the ball there isn't the huge gap for Paterson to run into. Mind you probably need to watch some more football to appreciate that fact.....

[thebish]

i think those of you over-analysing this goal should probably watch LESS football!

[SmokinFrazier]

Knight wasn't the only one keeping him onside FFS. He ran in behind the I there's and Knight tried to cover him. Yes, the line was all over the place, but it was a perfect run and one that deserved a goal.

What are you talking about? Knight was two metres or so behind our other three defenders because, for whatever reason, he was man marking their striker. He could have just let him be offside and then defend the actual threat, which was the pass onto Paterson, yet he didn't. By sticking next to their striker, he left a huge gap open and allowed Paterson to run straight through our gaping defence.

Brilliant. If Mills and Ream aren't drawn to the ball there isn't the huge gap for Paterson to run into. Mind you probably need to watch some more football to appreciate that fact.....

What Mills and Ream did is technically fine. A high line will cost goals occasionally but that's just part of football. They got beaten by a good pass and that can happen but it's not like they did the wrong thing either. Knight did do the wrong thing by following their striker which opened a huge hole in our defence. Had he kept his lines and stayed besides Mills, he'd have been in the exact position that Paterson ran straight through.

A defence, especially the central defenders, have to work as a unit which clearly wasn't the case with Mills and Knight. Three defenders were in a position to stop their attack, Mills, Knight and Ream, and two of them made the right decision whilst the other was dawdling around a couple of metres behind the others, completely unaware of what the real threat was.

[boltonboris]

SF. When Paterson made the run, he wasn't being played offside by the other defenders.

[Prufrock]

NOT WITHOUT PRESSURE ON THE BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CAPSLOCK]

Can you guys keep him talking and I'll arrange the ambulance