Albion the away end, will you? Brighton (A) 13/02/16

[Enoch]

Aye, thought to be fair he has been pretty fecking woeful recently! I think there's a player in there, but I'm not convinced we've got the time to find it (though with Wheater out we'd better hope we do). He's currently go to player of blame though, albeit not entirely without reason!

That's about where I am. Dervite, Pratley, Trotter et al, every one of them has a player in there. Why they don't show at times is up for debate, but as a boss type I always assumed responsibility for the performance of the chaps (not forgetting the chapesses of course!)

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I dislike the scapegoating of players, which is why I warily mentioned confirmation bias in my assessment of Dervite.

I blame Mavies for the third goal. In my original (lost) report I said that Dervite was blameless for the second: he *had* to mark Zamora, the more immediate danger, because Holding had had to go over towards Knockaert because Derik was behind the pace.

On that move, by the way, Vela was nowhere to be seen. Perhaps it was the end-on view but there seemed a determination to send the full-backs bombing on, particularly Vela, with the centre-backs splitting and Spearing dropping into the hole between. It's not a bad idea - it won a World Cup for Scolari, albeit with very slightly better players - but the danger is always that the oppo will exploit the holes.

That certainly happened for the first goal - Vela advanced up the right, they lobbed over Dervite who hasn't got the pace to get back - and for the second goal they played it down a similar channel with Spearing scampering to get back. (Hobo: I don't think Spearing got close enough for the "oops I mistimed it" yellow, it would have been an "oh dear I've kicked him in the air" red.) And you could argue that pushing the full-backs on contributed to the third: perhaps had Vela not bombed on he could've helped dig Mavies out of his hole, Dervite wouldn't have had to move across, etc.

But! The only way to stop your full-backs ever being caught out of position is to pin them back, and that won't help us get the wins we need. We're more likely to lose games 3-2 than 1-0, but that's the risk we have to take.

[Prufrock]

It nearly won Liverpool a first league title in a bajillion years too. Not sure it's the right idea when the full backs you are (tbf in this case from necessity) a central midfielder who it's the slowest man on earth, and a right fired centre half.

[LeverEnd]

I dislike the scapegoating of players, which is why I warily mentioned confirmation bias in my assessment of Dervite.

I blame Mavies for the third goal. In my original (lost) report I said that Dervite was blameless for the second: he *had* to mark Zamora, the more immediate danger, because Holding had had to go over towards Knockaert because Derik was behind the pace.

On that move, by the way, Vela was nowhere to be seen. Perhaps it was the end-on view but there seemed a determination to send the full-backs bombing on, particularly Vela, with the centre-backs splitting and Spearing dropping into the hole between. It's not a bad idea - it won a World Cup for Scolari, albeit with very slightly better players - but the danger is always that the oppo will exploit the holes.

That certainly happened for the first goal - Vela advanced up the right, they lobbed over Dervite who hasn't got the pace to get back - and for the second goal they played it down a similar channel with Spearing scampering to get back. (Hobo: I don't think Spearing got close enough for the "oops I mistimed it" yellow, it would have been an "oh dear I've kicked him in the air" red.) And you could argue that pushing the full-backs on contributed to the third: perhaps had Vela not bombed on he could've helped dig Mavies out of his hole, Dervite wouldn't have had to move across, etc.

But! The only way to stop your full-backs ever being caught out of position is to pin them back, and that won't help us get the wins we need. We're more likely to lose games 3-2 than 1-0, but that's the risk we have to take.

I also dislike scapegoating, which is why I defend Feeney and Danns, but slagging Davies and dervite off at the moment is perfectly justified because neither looks particularly arsed about our predicament. Both have also shown themselves to be more than capable at this level of football and are failing at a job they get paid a lot to do.

As for the goal with Vela missing, what stands out for me is not that we're leaving gaps by attacking, but that no-one is busting a gut to get back.
I get that we were pushing full-backs forward, but if you watch the goal segment til the end no Bolton player appears on that side. You'd expect to see someone trailing in behind as the ball goes in, but there is no-one. It could have come back off the post or the keeper and one of theirs would've tapped it in unchallenged.

[Lord Kangana]

A discussion on the precise nature of the word scapegoat is required here.

[TANGODANCER]

Marauding full backs. Might have happened before Alf Ramsey had George Cohen and Ray Wilson galloping forth from the back in 1966, but I can't think of an instance off-hand. . Prior to that full back were very much in the stopper/Tommy Banks type mode. Ramsey, for me, was the innovator of the mercurial back two era.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Lord: Do start that discussion.

Pru: Well, quite. Also not sure you need full-backs to be quite such gallivants when you're playing with two chalk-booted wingers, but hey-ho.

Endy: I presume you mean the second goal, but yeah. It's the worst part of the modern full-back's game - the desperate sprint back to cover - but it could equally have been another midfielder.

Tango: Alf needed overlapping full-backs, considering his diamond midfield had killed wingers, including the original Tomo.

[Worthy4England]

If Dervite won the EuroMillions and gave it all to help the aged he'd get c*nted off by some.

20/20 hindsight, it's a f*cking bore I tell ya.

For their third goal - I was in the same camp as Pru - he was heading out to the flanks away from goal to try and give Mavies an out ball...

[Hoboh]

The primary role of any defender is to be a stopper first and foremost.
A full back capable of getting forwards is great but he has to be able to complete his primary role.
Trashly Cole was supposed to be a great fullback, I never rated him because of the number of times he was caught way out of position, i.e.. not fulfilling his primary role.

[Hoboh]

If Dervite won the EuroMillions and gave it all to help the aged he'd get c*nted off by some.

20/20 hindsight, it's a f*cking bore I tell ya.

For their third goal - I was in the same camp as Pru - he was heading out to the flanks away from goal to try and give Mavies an out ball...

Aye, totally down to sick note trying to be clever in my opinion as well.

[LeverEnd]

A discussion on the precise nature of the word scapegoat is required here.

I think Danns and Feeney are the obvious ones because I've observed them being blamed for poor results when actually doing OK and being the least of our problems.
Saying somebody is playing shit and not pulling his weight is not scapegoating, merely targeted criticism. Scapegoating surely implies apportioning blame where it does not belong, throwing someone to the Wolves arbitrarily.

[Lord Kangana]

I think whoever blames whoever will always say they are applying logic and the others are just scapegoating. Feeney is alright, but the pendulum doesn't have to swing so far the other way to suddenly say he's ace. He's limited to say the least. However, a good manager husbands and uses his resources most effectively. Get Feeney running at them, but for f*cks sake, don't ask him to be providing accurate final balls. For example.

[boltonboris]

The primary role of any defender is to be a stopper first and foremost.
A full back capable of getting forwards is great but he has to be able to complete his primary role.
Trashly Cole was supposed to be a great fullback, I never rated him because of the number of times he was caught way out of position, i.e.. not fulfilling his primary role.

Defending was the strongest part of his game!!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The primary role of any defender is to be a stopper first and foremost.
A full back capable of getting forwards is great but he has to be able to complete his primary role.
Trashly Cole was supposed to be a great fullback, I never rated him because of the number of times he was caught way out of position, i.e.. not fulfilling his primary role.

Defending was the strongest part of his game!!

Impressive considering he started as a winger.

It's fine to have full-backs who stay at home. It's just that you end up being West Brom.

[BWFC_Insane]

The primary role of any defender is to be a stopper first and foremost.
A full back capable of getting forwards is great but he has to be able to complete his primary role.
Trashly Cole was supposed to be a great fullback, I never rated him because of the number of times he was caught way out of position, i.e.. not fulfilling his primary role.

Defending was the strongest part of his game!!

Indeed.

[Prufrock]

Aye. Best English player in my lifetime in terms of being the best in his position. His two displays against Ronaldo in 2006 and particularly 2004 two of the finest defensive performances you could hope to see.

He was pretty good going forward too, tbf. Imagine how good he'd have been if he could kick further than 30 yards!

[Worthy4England]

Aye. Best English player in my lifetime in terms of being the best in his position. His two displays against Ronaldo in 2006 and particularly 2004 two of the finest defensive performances you could hope to see.

He was pretty good going forward too, tbf. Imagine how good he'd have been if he could kick further than 30 yards!

Yeah but nothing tops J'lloyd's perfectly timed tackle on the greasy cnut from which they rag bastards got a penalty.

[Hoboh]

The primary role of any defender is to be a stopper first and foremost.
A full back capable of getting forwards is great but he has to be able to complete his primary role.
Trashly Cole was supposed to be a great fullback, I never rated him because of the number of times he was caught way out of position, i.e.. not fulfilling his primary role.

Defending was the strongest part of his game!!

Was it bollocks, the number of times he got a sweat on trying to get back after dropping a clanger up field was ridiculous, usually involved a foul or two and a fair share of petulance!

[Prufrock]

Oh well, if you're going to be wrong, might as well do it big!

[Prufrock]

Aye. Best English player in my lifetime in terms of being the best in his position. His two displays against Ronaldo in 2006 and particularly 2004 two of the finest defensive performances you could hope to see.

He was pretty good going forward too, tbf. Imagine how good he'd have been if he could kick further than 30 yards!

Yeah but nothing tops J'lloyd's perfectly timed tackle on the greasy cnut from which they rag bastards got a penalty.

Don't remind me. That was the best bit of defending he did for us, if not in his whole career. Even that nice person looked embarrassed to get that one, and that didn't happen much!