Lessons learned . Away to Cambridge Tues, 26th Nov. 1745.

[TANGODANCER]

We’ve just given a two year deal to prime example as to why we aren’t that good a league one side. Sheehan is soft mentally and physically and not a player you want in a league one side aiming for promotion. Yet the clueless clowns decided a new deal was a good idea.

You really do talk absolute horseshit sometimes. Once you've made your mind up about something, you cling onto it so violently that you end up spouting this kind of bollocks

Agreed B.B. Sheean is one of the better players at changing the pattern of play by incentive. The Welsh selectors seem to agree and that he's good enough for international selection.

[BWFC_Insane]

We’ve just given a two year deal to prime example as to why we aren’t that good a league one side. Sheehan is soft mentally and physically and not a player you want in a league one side aiming for promotion. Yet the clueless clowns decided a new deal was a good idea.

You really do talk absolute horseshit sometimes. Once you've made your mind up about something, you cling onto it so violently that you end up spouting this kind of bollocks

We carry him through a lot of games, as a number 6 who offers nothing defensively off the ball, doesn’t cover ground very well, has no physicality and looks good on a nice flat pitch when afforded time.

He is capable of leading a press, Lee style but rarely does. He’s not really a regular goalscorer.

Being a technically good footballer only matters if you show up week in week out and not when it’s just ‘ideal conditions’. Thomason is the one who has to drive that midfield. Sheehan doesn’t. It is very rare you’d say ‘Sheehan ran midfield’ and he should be doing that week in week out as a number 6 in league one at Bolton if he’s any good.

So I’m sorry I have a different view. But I do. He’s not physically or mentally capable of doing a consistent job that a number 6 is frequently required to do in this league. He can do parts. The parts he does he is good at. The problem is decent teams can stop him doing those things too easily in our setup and then he offers very little.

[Worthy4England]

This, in part, is why I don't like this operating model. Great when it works, but most models are. When it's less convincing (like now), one side sits there saying "right players signed, manager is using them wrong." Other side says "wrong players signed"...

Aye,That's a big part of our problem, we don't do horses for courses, just same horses for all courses. You don't sign a Barry McGuigan to fight a Tyson Fury or race a Ford Focus against a Ferrari. Opposition teams know that if they throw themselves at every ball in our lightweight defence we either do the same and risk fouls or yellow cards, or get mugged by not tackling hard. Catch 22 it undoubtedly is. Possession without result is good for nothing except wasting energy: and how much of the stats are based in our own half? . Then again, it must be said, our own passing and dribbling skills are less than first class.

The answer? Quien Sabes? (who knows), it's all in the hands of the football moguls in the end. One thing nobody can argue with: we aren't good enough whatever the reason.

Amen.

Presumably Aunty Shaz knows whether Markham is doing leg work and therefore Evatt's fault, or if Markham is driving the recruitment. If I'm paying out for a player I'm asking what they are looking for and why player x is the answer. Given the Dan signing I'd be grilling the buggers before signing off. It is one thing identifying Dan as having potential, but another having him for half a season then spending the money. That has to be Evatt's judgement at that point. In short, for me it all depends what Markham's actual role is beyond identifying possibilities based on a criteria.

Decent interview with Markham here, explaining how it all came about.

Not related to the current situation, but interesting words at about 22:30 when Markham asked Shazz how secure the job was, given we hadn't won in 6. Shazza's response "Ian could lost the next 10 and he isn't getting sacked"...

[officer_dibble]

You have to think when there’s 15k on for Boxing Day or whatever questions must be asked. There’s genuinely gonna be 10k fewer punters in the ground in the busiest part of the season.

[BWFC_Insane]

This is what annoys me. Top managers do the business under extreme pressure without resources. Evatt has no pressure and resources most would dream of yet still can’t do it. And that in itself isn’t his fault. He can’t make himself better, he could though stop playing the victim and apologise to the fans that he’s out of his depth and has wasted three of our years.

He is probably ten years experience away from being competent and capable to manage a club of this size in league one.

[Bertie Wooster]

Decent interview with Markham here, explaining how it all came about.

Not related to the current situation, but interesting words at about 22:30 when Markham asked Shazz how secure the job was, given we hadn't won in 6. Shazza's response "Ian could lost the next 10 and he isn't getting sacked"...

Proof that she's as much of the problem as Evatt is.

[Prufrock]

We’ve just given a two year deal to prime example as to why we aren’t that good a league one side. Sheehan is soft mentally and physically and not a player you want in a league one side aiming for promotion. Yet the clueless clowns decided a new deal was a good idea.

You really do talk absolute horseshit sometimes. Once you've made your mind up about something, you cling onto it so violently that you end up spouting this kind of bollocks

We carry him through a lot of games, as a number 6 who offers nothing defensively off the ball, doesn’t cover ground very well, has no physicality and looks good on a nice flat pitch when afforded time.

He is capable of leading a press, Lee style but rarely does. He’s not really a regular goalscorer.

Being a technically good footballer only matters if you show up week in week out and not when it’s just ‘ideal conditions’. Thomason is the one who has to drive that midfield. Sheehan doesn’t. It is very rare you’d say ‘Sheehan ran midfield’ and he should be doing that week in week out as a number 6 in league one at Bolton if he’s any good.

So I’m sorry I have a different view. But I do. He’s not physically or mentally capable of doing a consistent job that a number 6 is frequently required to do in this league. He can do parts. The parts he does he is good at. The problem is decent teams can stop him doing those things too easily in our setup and then he offers very little.

You're obviously entitled to not particularly rate him but it is wild how often your analysis comes back to him. He's established himself as first choice in a Wales team that are flying. All players are dependent on those around them but some more than others, and smaller technical types particularly so. I think it's fair to say we aren't getting that balance right in midfield, but he's clearly a very good footballer and any manager coming in would want him to be part of it and back themselves to get a tune out. In a 433 say with the right people around him he's a championship player.

It all comes back to the manager. The type of football were trying to play requires total conviction and I really don't think it's helpful he is clearly doubting himself, saying he doesn't have the answers. That translates and snowballs. Our current best formation is whichever of 352 or 343 we weren't paying the last time we feebly collapsed. I have no particular animus against him, and I hope rather than expect he turns a corner. But I don't know what the plan is, we aren't improving, we somehow have a negative goal difference and are liable to complete collapse at any point. A team that goes 1-0 up away to ten men and surrenders all control isn't going up. Of course Cambridge have to come at you and that's the point good teams make their quality and extra men count and score a second. Of course every now and then it doesn't happen and a good ball hits you, but the alarming thing was we never looked like scoring the second, or believing we could.

I also don't think this is a team capable of playing badly. We're either excellent (less and less so) good, middling or utterly atrocious. And when atrocious comes along it's so bad we have no change of nicking a win or draw.

[BWFC_Insane]

We’ve just given a two year deal to prime example as to why we aren’t that good a league one side. Sheehan is soft mentally and physically and not a player you want in a league one side aiming for promotion. Yet the clueless clowns decided a new deal was a good idea.

You really do talk absolute horseshit sometimes. Once you've made your mind up about something, you cling onto it so violently that you end up spouting this kind of bollocks

We carry him through a lot of games, as a number 6 who offers nothing defensively off the ball, doesn’t cover ground very well, has no physicality and looks good on a nice flat pitch when afforded time.

He is capable of leading a press, Lee style but rarely does. He’s not really a regular goalscorer.

Being a technically good footballer only matters if you show up week in week out and not when it’s just ‘ideal conditions’. Thomason is the one who has to drive that midfield. Sheehan doesn’t. It is very rare you’d say ‘Sheehan ran midfield’ and he should be doing that week in week out as a number 6 in league one at Bolton if he’s any good.

So I’m sorry I have a different view. But I do. He’s not physically or mentally capable of doing a consistent job that a number 6 is frequently required to do in this league. He can do parts. The parts he does he is good at. The problem is decent teams can stop him doing those things too easily in our setup and then he offers very little.

You're obviously entitled to not particularly rate him but it is wild how often your analysis comes back to him. He's established himself as first choice in a Wales team that are flying. All players are dependent on those around them but some more than others, and smaller technical types particularly so. I think it's fair to say we aren't getting that balance right in midfield, but he's clearly a very good footballer and any manager coming in would want him to be part of it and back themselves to get a tune out. In a 433 say with the right people around him he's a championship player.

It all comes back to the manager. The type of football were trying to play requires total conviction and I really don't think it's helpful he is clearly doubting himself, saying he doesn't have the answers. That translates and snowballs. Our current best formation is whichever of 352 or 343 we weren't paying the last time we feebly collapsed. I have no particular animus against him, and I hope rather than expect he turns a corner. But I don't know what the plan is, we aren't improving, we somehow have a negative goal difference and are liable to complete collapse at any point. A team that goes 1-0 up away to ten men and surrenders all control isn't going up. Of course Cambridge have to come at you and that's the point good teams make their quality and extra men count and score a second. Of course every now and then it doesn't happen and a good ball hits you, but the alarming thing was we never looked like scoring the second, or believing we could.

I also don't think this is a team capable of playing badly. We're either excellent (less and less so) good, middling or utterly atrocious. And when atrocious comes along it's so bad we have no change of nicking a win or draw.

This is what I can’t understand. If he was genuinely good enough for the championship he would be driving us on. Not requiring babysitting in a league one midfield and ducking most games. It might be the balance is wrong in there but he’s our number 6. His job as a number 6 is to dominate in that area. It’s not a ‘nice to have’. You do it. You protect the back line. And you win the battle. It’s essential. Week in week out.

[Worthy4England]

I think when it's all purring, with a team giving a bit of space, he's pretty good. Less time, he'll find a pass, but maybe not always forward and that's ok. So if you only watch from receipt to dispatch of the ball. Pretty decent in L1. Where I lose it with him, is in the defensive side of his game. He's cost us goals. Also, I tend to feel that he's icing on a decent cake, but not going to change much in a game that's not running our way. When there's only a couple and you're maybe a bit under MF pressure, one can't be 50% passenger.

[boltonboris]

If we're critical of the poor mentality of our players, there's a guy who's quite highly rated next to Sheehan who lets other teams midfielders kick 7 shades out of his teammates and who gets a suspension every 5th game for mistimed tackles, or dissent

And we've given him the feckin captaincy!!

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Decent interview with Markham here, explaining how it all came about.

Not related to the current situation, but interesting words at about 22:30 when Markham asked Shazz how secure the job was, given we hadn't won in 6. Shazza's response "Ian could lost the next 10 and he isn't getting sacked"...

I've identified the problem. He's from Yorkshire!

I think the job security answer in that should be taken in the context of 6 months in and Shaz was taking a longer term view than just that season. I would hope that today she is looking at it from a view point of decent job up to January last year, but its gone to shit and realistically has he the answers to get back on track? I think for most of us that is a no and I hope Shaz of the opinion something has to click soon or changes will be made.

[Worthy4England]

If we're critical of the poor mentality of our players, there's a guy who's quite highly rated next to Sheehan who lets other teams midfielders kick 7 shades out of his teammates and who gets a suspension every 5th game for mistimed tackles, or dissent

And we've given him the feckin captaincy!!

His team mates need to be able to look after themsleves a bit too. Do we only employ one cnut who can tackle? I know tackling isn't very popular anymore.

[BWFC_Insane]

If we're critical of the poor mentality of our players, there's a guy who's quite highly rated next to Sheehan who lets other teams midfielders kick 7 shades out of his teammates and who gets a suspension every 5th game for mistimed tackles, or dissent

And we've given him the feckin captaincy!!

He’s a million times the player Sheehan is. Second half performance against Blackpool - he put everything in and single handedly gripped that game and turned it round.

The difference is he maybe has less natural ability but mentality is top notch. Desire right there. It spills over at times and isn’t always directed well. Frankly if he was more disciplined I doubt he’d be in league one. Thats what holds him back.

But this is it for me. Thomason shows up a lot and played most of last season on his own in that midfield in terms of the hard yards and graft. He had to do it all. He predictably struggled as it went on - something that was predictable earlier in the season. And was predicted.

He once again is more or less having to do it all by himself. When he’s not in there it’s not very dynamic at all.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think when it's all purring, with a team giving a bit of space, he's pretty good. Less time, he'll find a pass, but maybe not always forward and that's ok. So if you only watch from receipt to dispatch of the ball. Pretty decent in L1. Where I lose it with him, is in the defensive side of his game. He's cost us goals. Also, I tend to feel that he's icing on a decent cake, but not going to change much in a game that's not running our way. When there's only a couple and you're maybe a bit under MF pressure, one can't be 50% passenger.

Well this. And he plays as though he’s a James Maddison style number 10 yet realistically we are playing him as a number 6. You know a Rodri. It’s problematic. I don’t think he is a league one 6. I’m not entirely sure what he is. I suspect if you built a whole team around him you might have something but then does he produce enough when it matters to justify that?

[The_Gun]

If we're critical of the poor mentality of our players, there's a guy who's quite highly rated next to Sheehan who lets other teams midfielders kick 7 shades out of his teammates and who gets a suspension every 5th game for mistimed tackles, or dissent

And we've given him the feckin captaincy!!

His team mates need to be able to look after themsleves a bit too. Do we only employ one cnut who can tackle? I know tackling isn't very popular anymore.

Sheehan won the most tackles of any of our players last season.

[Worthy4England]

I think when it's all purring, with a team giving a bit of space, he's pretty good. Less time, he'll find a pass, but maybe not always forward and that's ok. So if you only watch from receipt to dispatch of the ball. Pretty decent in L1. Where I lose it with him, is in the defensive side of his game. He's cost us goals. Also, I tend to feel that he's icing on a decent cake, but not going to change much in a game that's not running our way. When there's only a couple and you're maybe a bit under MF pressure, one can't be 50% passenger.

Well this. And he plays as though he’s a James Maddison style number 10 yet realistically we are playing him as a number 6. You know a Rodri. It’s problematic. I don’t think he is a league one 6. I’m not entirely sure what he is. I suspect if you built a whole team around him you might have something but then does he produce enough when it matters to justify that?

I've often thought Sheehan's more a 10/8 than a 6. To the Thommo point and higher division, he could've gone to Bristol City 18 months back....

[Worthy4England]

If we're critical of the poor mentality of our players, there's a guy who's quite highly rated next to Sheehan who lets other teams midfielders kick 7 shades out of his teammates and who gets a suspension every 5th game for mistimed tackles, or dissent

And we've given him the feckin captaincy!!

His team mates need to be able to look after themsleves a bit too. Do we only employ one cnut who can tackle? I know tackling isn't very popular anymore.

Sheehan won the most tackles of any of our players last season.

There seemed to be an expectation from Boris post, that Thommo should be saving all his mates. I'd expect a 6 to win the volume tackle count, he was 6th on tackles per 90 last season, same as Thommo, with 3 CDs higher, which if your defensive patterns are working well, probably shouldn't be the case.

[TANGODANCER]

If there's any plus factor to it all, it's that we got an away point; we didn't lose technically, even if mentally. As for Sheean, Tomo and indeed the rest, they aren't robots incapable of wrong but human beings. If Insano is one of the former I could better undersrand his desire for perfection. Franny Lee (R.I.P.) attacked Norman Hunter swinging full scale punches, Zinadine Zidane blatantly head butted a player(in the chest) and Lord only knows how many fouls, kicks, trips and body attacks occur every match in any league. It's called human error. Time maybe to stop being so perfect and always wanting victims and just concentrate on doing a better job.

Amen.

[boltonboris]

If we're critical of the poor mentality of our players, there's a guy who's quite highly rated next to Sheehan who lets other teams midfielders kick 7 shades out of his teammates and who gets a suspension every 5th game for mistimed tackles, or dissent

And we've given him the feckin captaincy!!

His team mates need to be able to look after themsleves a bit too. Do we only employ one cnut who can tackle? I know tackling isn't very popular anymore.

Sheehan won the most tackles of any of our players last season.

There seemed to be an expectation from Boris post, that Thommo should be saving all his mates. I'd expect a 6 to win the volume tackle count, he was 6th on tackles per 90 last season, same as Thommo, with 3 CDs higher, which if your defensive patterns are working well, probably shouldn't be the case.

I don't expect that... BWFCI suggests that.

He's suggesting somehow, that Thomason carried Sheehan to his player of the year award and team of the year award, as voted by players from other teams.

But that's because he's hyperbolic and talking bolics. Both players have their shortfalls, but I'd wager that if both players went to Bristol City tomorrow, Sheehan would get more minutes. Again, I'm not saying I don't like Thomason, quite the opposite, but BWFCI has this view of football, like it's a 1980's war played on mud and only chest beating foulers have room in our team.

Sheehan is a fantastic footballer and I think he's being asked to do too much. Break up play, win tackles, win interceptions, be the play maker, be the passer and often his fellow midfielders are 20 yards ahead of him being marked - Sometimes that works, but not often

[boltonboris]

To be fair to BWFCI, if Thommo stayed on the pitch yesterday, we would have had a better chance at seeing the game out.

If only he hadn't got ANOTHER yellow, which saw him have to be dragged.

His discipline is a genuine concern. Not just for the fact that he misses too many games, but because he has to walk on eggshells for large periods of a match when his intensity is his single biggest asset