Freedman out!

[BWFC_Insane]

It's alright doing "whatever it takes to get a 1-0 win", but I don't fancy watching that shit again, thanks.

I'd take some 1-0 wins. Frankly I'm not all that bothered how we play right now if we can actually win.

The Allardyce thing is fantasy nostalgia though, there is no chance he's coming back and even if he did, I'm not sure what people expect him to do? We are broke and any manager will primarily be cost cutting to avoid the penalty of FFP. He's a good manager but he's second from bottom in the premiership having spent a relative fortune. I don't know how that translates to us being massively better when he has nothing to spend and a lot of deadwood to shift.

But anyhow, he's not even been sacked and is supposedly at the very least getting the next premiership game in a couple of weeks. I know his wife lives here, heck I've seen him around Bolton a few times since he's been at West Ham so he must be up here a fair bit, but I think he'd rather retire than come back here. There is nowt for him here at all.

[Bruce Rioja]

Another thing. I've seen the cost of flirting Dougie as being around £2.5 million.

He has 18 months on his contract. That's 78 weeks. So is Dougie seriously earning £30,000 a week(ish).

I fvckin' doubt it!

And before you say "that includes all of his backroom staff". Keep them!! If they want to follow him out of the door and cancel their contracts, let them!

Including Lennie Lawrence? Does anyone know just what in the name of the blue blazes it is that he actually does?

[boltonboris]

Who's he?

In all honesty. Let them stay on and earn their crust. Apparently, they're all super shit hot scientists, so they should be great under good stewardship!.

[Lord Kangana]

you're not a lawyer or a politician by any chance are you enoch ?

My point, StaffsTrotter, was regard folk posting opinion as fact. Opinion is the lifeblood of any forum, false statements just poison the well. I'm not looking for an argument about the merits of any particular statement, just hopeful folk might be more circumspect.

In answer to your question, no, I'm not. Just hopelessly optimistic.

Which false statement. Please can you quote it so we can understand better.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Another thing. I've seen the cost of flirting Dougie as being around £2.5 million.

He has 18 months on his contract. That's 78 weeks. So is Dougie seriously earning £30,000 a week(ish).

I fvckin' doubt it!

And before you say "that includes all of his backroom staff". Keep them!! If they want to follow him out of the door and cancel their contracts, let them!

Including Lennie Lawrence? Does anyone know just what in the name of the blue blazes it is that he actually does?

Probably took on Robbie Blake's role of good bloke to have around the dressing room.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Coyle needed a Lennie. I suppose the question is what madcap Freedman schemes LL might have nixed...

[coffeymagic]

[quote="Bruce Rioja

....Including Lennie Lawrence? Does anyone know just what in the name of the blue blazes it is that he actually does? [/quote]

I think he's Dougie's Eileen Drewery. Sat in a striped tent with a black cat, surrounded by chicken entrails, wearing a fez and gazing into a Crystal Palace Ball he tells Dougles what the stars decree.

Either that or he's wanking him off.

[bobo the clown]

.... Including Lennie Lawrence? Does anyone know just what in the name of the blue blazes it is that he actually does?

I think he's Dougie's Eileen Drewery. Sat in a striped tent with a black cat, surrounded by chicken entrails, wearing a fez and gazing into a Crystal Palace Ball he tells Dougles what the stars decree.

Either that or he's wanking him off.

God, that's a horrible image. I hope it's the latter.

[SmokinFrazier]

I'd be happy to wait if Allardyce was going to get sacked in a few weeks and he'd be the one to replace Freedman. That's my ideal scenario and I find myself hoping West Ham lose every game these days, purely in the hope of that scenario unfolding, there'd be no better manager available for us. Maybe Gartside, realising he'd messed up with Megson, Coyle, Lee and Freedman, would be keen to bring him back?

hang on.... a few days ago you said that Tony Pulis, Martin O'Neill and Mick McCarthy would be your top 3 candidates!

It wasn't a few days ago, it was when O'Neill and Pulis were both out of work. When they were, Allardyce's position was safe so I ruled him out but as that has changed due to West Ham's poor form, he's now a reasonably realistic candidate.

it'd be nice to think that BigSam is a reasonably realistic candidate - but I really don't think there's a cat in Swindon's chance of him coming back. do you, seriously?

I think the biggest hurdle is the relationship between Allardyce and Gartisde. If they really do dislike each other and can't work together, it's unlikely it will happen, but it's been 6 years since they worked together and maybe they're happy to bury the hatchet? I don't know one way or the other, but I do think it's a deal which could benefit both men, so I'd hope they would be able to work around their differences, especially Gartside. He is in such a weak position as a chairman, he might be willing to swallow his pride in order to protect his own career. He might get sacked if Freedman does anyway but if he doesn't, his next choice to take over will surely be his last if he messes up again, so he'll want to make sure he chooses someone who is popular with the fans, has a good reputation and isn't another gamble like Freedman was.

People keep on mentioning finances as reason it won't happen but the reason Allardyce got so infuriated before wasn't simply a lack of spending, it was a lack of ambition. He wanted to solidify us as a top 6 side, and rather than back him financially, Gartside refused to do so. However, Allardyce isn't a manager who needs to spend big everywhere he goes, which he proved at Blackburn, for instance, so I don't think budget restraints would be much of an issue for him. If he has to do a few loans and free contracts before getting us promoted, I don't think that'd be a major issue for him.

You've also got to consider that whilst Allardyce got West Ham promoted, he's currently doing the worst job in his managerial career so far and his reputation, because of the style of football he's been associated with, means there aren't going to be lots of clubs going in for him. If he gets sacked, he isn't just going to walk into another top club, he's going to have to drop down a level or two, which makes us a possibility. The Premier League sacking odds are Allardyce at 1/3, Hughton at 7/1, Lambert at 14/1 and then, ludicrously, Pochettino at 20/1 which indicates that whilst West Ham are likely to change their manager, other clubs probably won't do the same any time soon. If Allardyce gets sacked, he's not just going to walk into another Premier League club because there isn't going to be many more openings this season. I'd say that Hughton and Lambert are both stable, and the teams down at the bottom of the league have already replaced their managers, so when will another role become free? The last time Allardyce was out of work, he joined a Championship club in West Ham and as there are no likely vacancies in the Premier League for him now, I don't think it's wrong to assume he'd drop down again. I think it's likely he will take another job in the Championship and how many other clubs in this league have the same infrastructure we've got, need a new manager and have a squad capable of promotion? There's also the fact he had his most successful chapter of his life with Bolton, has clear affection for the club, loves the area and might be up for another challenge with us.

I don't think it's inevitable he'll get sacked and run with open arms to Gartside but I don't think it should be dismissed either. He's a quality manager who, unfortunately, has a bad reputation and isn't going to easily find another job in the Premier League. We're a Championship club with Premier League infrastructure and he is a legend here. We have a good squad and I think he'd get us promoted within a full season without spending, so there are plenty of positives. The one worry is, like I said, his relationship with Gartside but I'd hope they could both put that to one side.

There are a lot of reasons why Allardyce would take the job and why it'd be great for everyone involved, so it can't be dismissed too easily. The falling out between Mourinho and Abramovich was bad, people said a reunion would never happen and look how that ended up.

[thebish]

^ you say it wasn't simply a lack of spending, but a lack of ambition..

yet you don't go on to explain what "lack of ambition" is if it isn't just code for "lack of spending"...

can you say a bit more what you mean? how was lack of ambition apparent to BigSam other than spending power?

[Lord Kangana]

I still find it hard to square the circle that the simple stumbling block was money. You only have to look at the wads of cash that Megson was given very shortly after Allardyce left. I can't believe the board ordered such a volte-face, did they?

[Beefheart]

I still find it hard to square the circle that the simple stumbling block was money. You only have to look at the wads of cash that Megson was given very shortly after Allardyce left. I can't believe the board ordered such a volte-face, did they?

I think part of that was down to Anelka being sold for £15m after Allardyce left though.

[Lord Kangana]

It wasn't though was it really? We spent considerable amounts beyond the money that Anelka brought in. We spent the £15m in the January he was sold alone. Then we spent a similar (or more I forget) sum in the summer. We spent a lot during Megson's first few transfer windows, an awful lot.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I still find it hard to square the circle that the simple stumbling block was money. You only have to look at the wads of cash that Megson was given very shortly after Allardyce left. I can't believe the board ordered such a volte-face, did they?

Megson spent a lot but in the £4-9m category. It seems that that was Allardyce's baseline - that the very next window after breaking the Eddiebank to buy Anelka he went back wanting more of the same. Understandable but unsustainable.

it'd be nice to think that BigSam is a reasonably realistic candidate - but I really don't think there's a cat in Swindon's chance of him coming back. do you, seriously?

The Premier League sacking odds are Allardyce at 1/3, Hughton at 7/1, Lambert at 14/1 and then, ludicrously, Pochettino at 20/1 which indicates that whilst West Ham are likely to change their manager, other clubs probably won't do the same any time soon. [/quote]No, it indicates that there's a lot of people betting on West Ham doing it first. It's just the Next Man Out odds, not the Which Clubs Will Change Manager Before February odds.

You can talk around it all you like, Frazz, but for Allardyce to return it would take a chequebook we don't have as well as the absence of a Gartside we do have. We have to keep reminding ourselves that we are far from an attractive proposition to manage - in fact we are a badly-wrapped package of turds and the sellotape's losing its cohesion.

Local ties or not, happy memories or no, Allardyce would be an absolute f*cking idiot to come back here. And for all the things he is, good and bad, he is not an absolute f*cking idiot.

[StaffsTrotter]

I still find it hard to square the circle that the simple stumbling block was money. You only have to look at the wads of cash that Megson was given very shortly after Allardyce left. I can't believe the board ordered such a volte-face, did they?

think it as much Sam having 'outgrown' us at that stage. As with any manager he always wanted more money for better players etc, but I just think he didn't think he received and would never get the recognition he deserved with little old Bolton.

As to the megson money - I guess, with some justifcation, he argued that the squad needed a revamp and credit to the board (ED) they funded it - btw still think megson had a pretty good eye for a player

[StaffsTrotter]

forgot the main question - BSA back ? in a heartbeat. Would he come - can never say never, but would be a huge surprise if he did. Could imagine him in some kind of director of football role with us though, albeit acrimony with PG would still be a problem.

[truewhite15]

I still find it hard to square the circle that the simple stumbling block was money. You only have to look at the wads of cash that Megson was given very shortly after Allardyce left. I can't believe the board ordered such a volte-face, did they?

think it as much Sam having 'outgrown' us at that stage. As with any manager he always wanted more money for better players etc, but I just think he didn't think he received and would never get the recognition he deserved with little old Bolton.

As to the megson money - I guess, with some justifcation, he argued that the squad needed a revamp and credit to the board (ED) they funded it - btw still think megson had a pretty good eye for a player

We were 3rd in December, that year Allardyce asked for more money. We had a decent shout at the Champs League if we'd invested. Instead, we ended up scraping into the Waffa Cup.

Sure, he might have walked a couple of seasons later; but we should have invested a little more than on Lubo Michalik and David Thompson.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Could imagine him in some kind of director of football role with us

In charge of transfers and tactics?

[LeverEnd]

Could imagine him in some kind of director of football role with us

In charge of transfers and tactics?

And first team selection hopefully. Oh, hang on...

[thebish]

forgot the main question - BSA back ? in a heartbeat. Would he come - can never say never, but would be a huge surprise if he did. Could imagine him in some kind of director of football role with us though, albeit acrimony with PG would still be a problem.

i don't really understand what a "director of football" does... what would you envisage Sam would do in the role at Bolton?