Bolton v Liverpool Match Thread

[boltonboris]

If anybody thinks Elmander could have lasted for another second, I'm afraid you're mistaken. He was absolutely fecked and everytime he was tackled, he stayed down for a few seconds thinking of which body part to hold. He wanted to come off, Coyle could see that. Blake shou;d have come on around the hour mark. We were doing okay, but not doing enough and we needed to change it about.

We were the better team today, but still probably didn't do enough to win the game. And as always happens against the bin-dippers. The ref saw to it that we got feck all. 2 nailed on penalties seen but ignored by the shitbag in the black.

We've played better than that in pretty much every game since Coyle took over. That just shows how far Liverpool have fallen, when they only managed a flukey win against our very, very worst performance of the season

[thebish]

Positives :-

• we held and even outplayed for much of the game a team who for years were in the top four in the league; (but are by no means "top 4" now - ie - on the day we played them)
• we created more chances than they did and got many more on target; and tested the keeper with only ONE of them
• we played some good passing football at times between the long balls, similar to what Liverpool did; and seriously lacked any proper end product or final ball as usual
• Holden is a real find, full backs did well and so did the centre backs for almost all of the game; agreed - but we found holden before this game!
• I even think that Muamba didn’t have too bad a game, wish he could shoot though; but not as good as last season when he marked Gerrard entirely out of the game until the sending off

The main negatives are that we gave the ball away too cheaply at times, but then they did the same. (which doesn't make our doing it any better!)

Muamba was given a different role by Coyle, he wasn't man marking Gerrard this time and you can't blame the lad doing as he was told by the boss. In any case Gerrad didn't need man marking he was relatively easy to look after as it was.

They may not be in the top four at present but I would bet that they finish way above us this season and probably top 6.

I only experienced the game through the medium of radio - so I'd defer to someone who was there - but it was very hard to escape the impression that we were below par. we might have edged possession and we might have put together the odd passing move - but it did not sound to me like we were playing with the energy or high tempo that we have often managed this season for at least one of the halves. The impression given by the radio commentary was that Liverpool were there for the taking and had we mustered a higher tempo and had a bit more guile ourselves we could have claimed all three points.

Are you telling me that's wrong - and that we played as well as we could and were merely unlucky?

(and - Liverpool will not finish top 6)

[Bruce Rioja]

There are that many people taking Sammy Lee style 'positives' out of yesterday's dirge that I find it incredible.

There is not another football side in the land that gives us possession of the ball as easily as we give it to them. Not one.

[Horza]

The radio has it. We were putting pressure on what was a pretty dire 'pool but keeping the ball in their half is one thing and doing something with it another.

[BWFC_Wyles]

There are that many people taking Sammy Lee style 'positives' out of yesterday's dirge that I find it incredible.

There is not another football side in the land that gives us possession of the ball as easily as we give it to them. Not one.

Spot on Bruce! We have 0 end product as well, it's frightening how many opportunities we missed yesterday from seemingly decent players.... especialy headers from Knight & Davo

[FaninOz]

I only experienced the game through the medium of radio - so I'd defer to someone who was there - but it was very hard to escape the impression that we were below par. we might have edged possession and we might have put together the odd passing move - but it did not sound to me like we were playing with the energy or high tempo that we have often managed this season for at least one of the halves. The impression given by the radio commentary was that Liverpool were there for the taking and had we mustered a higher tempo and had a bit more guile ourselves we could have claimed all three points.

Are you telling me that's wrong - and that we played as well as we could and were merely unlucky?

(and - Liverpool will not finish top 6)

Yes the radio commentary was wrong, because both teams were there for the taking if the other one had mustered a higher tempo. There are two sides to every coin.

Of course we could have played better, that applies to almost every game Bolton have ever played, and so could Liverpool have played better. But neither did and based on the way that both teams did play the difference between the teams were effectively the 3 penalty claims which didn't get awarded (they didn't get one such claim), a narrow miss by Davies and a piece of skill/luck for them which resulted in a goal.

So yes based on the way both teams actually played we were unlucky to lose in my opinion.

[bedwetter2]

From my view high in the east stand we gave a poor disjointed performance. The scousers were no better but I would sum it up as two ordinary teams, neither of which really deserved to win. You could tell from the reaction when they scored that there was real relief amongst their supporters.

Just a few observations:
Davies did not get much change out of Kyriagos, or whatever his name is. There was an ongoing battle between them out there and it was effectively a distraction when the name of the game is to win. In my opinion, the game plan should have been changed at half-time with the introduction of a more mobile attacker.

Holden and Cahill were our best players. Most of the rest did not have a good or effective game. Muamba was a bit of a headless chicken in this one.

Jussi had little to do for the whole game unless you count the very occasional ball which was scuffed along the ground straight into his arms and, for once when you need him to pull off a great save, he failed. Something he has done before. It seems to me he needs to be in action from the first minute to get up to speed.

We didn't look like scoring for most of the game, so if we looked "better" than Liverpool it didn't really matter.

Rodrigo needs more match time and should start the next few. He does look skillful and seems to be unafraid to shoot so I suspect he will provide more of an end result than some of our other forwards or midfielders.

As to their players; Torres was totally disinterested and I expect to see him leaving soon, Gerrard was quite anonymous apart from a couple of short interventions in the second half, Carragher's lost it, and the other non-entities are just that. The worst player on the pitch was Maxi Rodriguez and he scored their goal! I think they are in trouble with or without Woy.

[Il Pirate]

[quote="keveh"]I've seen a lot of stuff mentioned about Andy Gray, what was he saying about SKD?[/quote]

SKD went down twice and won free kicks in dangerous areas after being 'brushed' by Kyriargos (spelling?). Gray was just saying big Kev knew what was coming and played for the foul, adding that sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. He won the two free kicks but didn't get the pen when deliberatly barged to the deck by the same defender. All in all I thought Andy Gray called it right all afternoon. No bias, just good fair commentry.

[BWFC_Insane]

[quote="keveh"]I've seen a lot of stuff mentioned about Andy Gray, what was he saying about SKD?

SKD went down twice and won free kicks in dangerous areas after being 'brushed' by Kyriargos (spelling?). Gray was just saying big Kev knew what was coming and played for the foul, adding that sometimes you get them, sometimes you don't. He won the two free kicks but didn't get the pen when deliberatly barged to the deck by the same defender. All in all I thought Andy Gray called it right all afternoon. No bias, just good fair commentry.[/quote][/quote]

I don't think it was a penalty.

The Carragher "handball" on the other hand.....

[Bruce Rioja]

I don't think it was a penalty.

The Carragher "handball" on the other hand.....

It does beg the question regarding consistency though. If the ref was awarding free-kicks for similar challenges outside the box, why is he not awarding a penalty when it happens inside?

[plymouth wanderer]

yeah defo handball but not a peno for the push

SKD dived more than tom daley he was't winning anything of the greek girl so resorted to to trying to win a few fouls no bad in that but you cant do it what he does to defences all the time this SKD not drogba
i think should of took of davo for a more mobiile striker that is after all why we have subs on the bench and we should resort to plan b (if we got a plan b) mark davies has impressed me everytime he has come on he has pace a bit of composure and he can run with the ball let him loose on spurs i remember his home debut he ripped spurs apart him and holden for midfield spot the moo for later on in games for when we wanna park the bus

[BWFC_Insane]

I don't think it was a penalty.

The Carragher "handball" on the other hand.....

It does beg the question regarding consistency though. If the ref was awarding free-kicks for similar challenges outside the box, why is he not awarding a penalty when it happens inside?

One of my major gripes with modern reffing as well. Consistency.

Cahill was penalised a few times four "fouls" half as bad as the Greek was getting away with on Davies.

I don't think the reffing was "biased" just as you say inconsistent.

[FaninOz]

I don't think it was a penalty.

The Carragher "handball" on the other hand.....

It does beg the question regarding consistency though. If the ref was awarding free-kicks for similar challenges outside the box, why is he not awarding a penalty when it happens inside?

One of my major gripes with modern reffing as well. Consistency.

Cahill was penalised a few times four "fouls" half as bad as the Greek was getting away with on Davies.

I don't think the reffing was "biased" just as you say inconsistent.

And that is the biggest problem in football, as the inconsistency of refs by definition wins all the tight games, as we saw yesterday and in many other tight matches it only takes a couple of inconsistent decisions to make a massive difference in the result.

[thebish]

I only experienced the game through the medium of radio - so I'd defer to someone who was there - but it was very hard to escape the impression that we were below par. we might have edged possession and we might have put together the odd passing move - but it did not sound to me like we were playing with the energy or high tempo that we have often managed this season for at least one of the halves. The impression given by the radio commentary was that Liverpool were there for the taking and had we mustered a higher tempo and had a bit more guile ourselves we could have claimed all three points.

Are you telling me that's wrong - and that we played as well as we could and were merely unlucky?

(and - Liverpool will not finish top 6)

Yes the radio commentary was wrong, because both teams were there for the taking if the other one had mustered a higher tempo. There are two sides to every coin.

Of course we could have played better, that applies to almost every game Bolton have ever played, and so could Liverpool have played better. But neither did and based on the way that both teams did play the difference between the teams were effectively the 3 penalty claims which didn't get awarded (they didn't get one such claim), a narrow miss by Davies and a piece of skill/luck for them which resulted in a goal.

So yes based on the way both teams actually played we were unlucky to lose in my opinion.

in what way was the radio commentary wrong, exactly?

if Liverpool were there for the taking - and we could have won by playing as well as we are capable of playing - then I reckon we'd be in our rights to be a bit p'd off at the team for underperforming. Just because Liverpool also underperformed does not excuse us underperforming - does it?

[blurred]

Some random assorted thoughts on yesterday:

1 - I used to grudgingly admire Kevin Davies, but now I find him distinctly irritating. He used to be the antithesis of what he's now become - a bit of a whinger. He used to be honest, put a shift in and be a bastard of an opponent, but he seems to have dropped the first of those three. The fact that he's consistently at the top of both the 'most fouled' and 'most fouling' players should tell him that he'll be given freekicks he probably shouldn't, and that he'll concede free kicks that probably shouldn't have been given, but that's the rub of the green. He was particularly poor in going down like he'd been shot on a number of occasions yesterday, which a few years ago he'd've been embarrassed to do. It's a shame.

2 - Is there a more anonymous player than Maxi Rodriguez? Bring back Dirk Kuyt all is forgiven.

3 - Apart from Lee in the second half, that is - he looked pretty sharp in the first, a few good touches and linked play really well, was behind a lot of your counter attacks and best passing football. Seemed as though he was taken off at half-time.

4 - Torres is slowly but surely getting back towards the old him. That miss on 8 minutes was poor, though - 2 years ago as soon as he received the ball the whole ground would've known that that was ending up in the back of the net. Still, some good runs, touches and turns. Amazing what happens when he has a bit of support and isn't completely isolated.

5 - A game at the Reebok just isn't quite the same without Ricardo Gardner coming off the bench and instantly looking like the most threatening player on the pitch.

6 - For all Bolton's passing football (and it's getting back to the level of some of the stuff you played in the better days under Allardyce at times), the best chances still came from freekicks and long balls.

7 - Should've been a penalty for the Carragher handball. I'd've been spitting feathers, but you see them given.

8 - Davies should have a word with himself about his penalty claim for Kyrgiakos' 'foul' in the second half. Not a chance.

9 - Does Fabrice Muamba offer anything other than a guarantee of being at least two seconds late for all of his tackles?

10 - Lucas is getting better and better with experience.

11 - Meireles was bought as an £11m central midfielder. Playing him on the right of midfield is just barmy.

12 - Did Jussi replace his usual Toblerone-shaped boots with normal ones? Hardly a misplaced kick from him. Most unusual.

13 - Who's that fella running round with the Elmander shirt on? Sure as hell isn't the same player that wore it last season. Looks 100 times better.

14 - I much prefer the new camera angle at the Reebok to the old one

15 - We win these games in spite of Roy, rather than because of him.

[plymouth wanderer]

(quote)
Some random assorted thoughts on yesterday:

1 - I used to grudgingly admire Kevin Davies, but now I find him distinctly irritating. He used to be the antithesis of what he's now become - a bit of a whinger. He used to be honest, put a shift in and be a bastard of an opponent, but he seems to have dropped the first of those three. The fact that he's consistently at the top of both the 'most fouled' and 'most fouling' players should tell him that he'll be given freekicks he probably shouldn't, and that he'll concede free kicks that probably shouldn't have been given, but that's the rub of the green. He was particularly poor in going down like he'd been shot on a number of occasions yesterday, which a few years ago he'd've been embarrassed to do. It's a shame.

2 - Is there a more anonymous player than Maxi Rodriguez? Bring back Dirk Kuyt all is forgiven.

3 - Apart from Lee in the second half, that is - he looked pretty sharp in the first, a few good touches and linked play really well, was behind a lot of your counter attacks and best passing football. Seemed as though he was taken off at half-time.

4 - Torres is slowly but surely getting back towards the old him. That miss on 8 minutes was poor, though - 2 years ago as soon as he received the ball the whole ground would've known that that was ending up in the back of the net. Still, some good runs, touches and turns. Amazing what happens when he has a bit of support and isn't completely isolated.

5 - A game at the Reebok just isn't quite the same without Ricardo Gardner coming off the bench and instantly looking like the most threatening player on the pitch.

6 - For all Bolton's passing football (and it's getting back to the level of some of the stuff you played in the better days under Allardyce at times), the best chances still came from freekicks and long balls.

7 - Should've been a penalty for the Carragher handball. I'd've been spitting feathers, but you see them given.

8 - Davies should have a word with himself about his penalty claim for Kyrgiakos' 'foul' in the second half. Not a chance.

9 - Does Fabrice Muamba offer anything other than a guarantee of being at least two seconds late for all of his tackles?

10 - Lucas is getting better and better with experience.

11 - Meireles was bought as an £11m central midfielder. Playing him on the right of midfield is just barmy.

12 - Did Jussi replace his usual Toblerone-shaped boots with normal ones? Hardly a misplaced kick from him. Most unusual.

13 - Who's that fella running round with the Elmander shirt on? Sure as hell isn't the same player that wore it last season. Looks 100 times better.

14 - I much prefer the new camera angle at the Reebok to the old one

15 - We win these games in spite of Roy, rather than because of him.



well said fella kevin Daley i mean davies defintley should of come of
he is usally effective but sunday totally ineffective

[BWFC_Insane]

Some random assorted thoughts on yesterday:

1 - I used to grudgingly admire Kevin Davies, but now I find him distinctly irritating. He used to be the antithesis of what he's now become - a bit of a whinger. He used to be honest, put a shift in and be a bastard of an opponent, but he seems to have dropped the first of those three. The fact that he's consistently at the top of both the 'most fouled' and 'most fouling' players should tell him that he'll be given freekicks he probably shouldn't, and that he'll concede free kicks that probably shouldn't have been given, but that's the rub of the green. He was particularly poor in going down like he'd been shot on a number of occasions yesterday, which a few years ago he'd've been embarrassed to do. It's a shame.

2 - Is there a more anonymous player than Maxi Rodriguez? Bring back Dirk Kuyt all is forgiven.

3 - Apart from Lee in the second half, that is - he looked pretty sharp in the first, a few good touches and linked play really well, was behind a lot of your counter attacks and best passing football. Seemed as though he was taken off at half-time.

4 - Torres is slowly but surely getting back towards the old him. That miss on 8 minutes was poor, though - 2 years ago as soon as he received the ball the whole ground would've known that that was ending up in the back of the net. Still, some good runs, touches and turns. Amazing what happens when he has a bit of support and isn't completely isolated.

5 - A game at the Reebok just isn't quite the same without Ricardo Gardner coming off the bench and instantly looking like the most threatening player on the pitch.

6 - For all Bolton's passing football (and it's getting back to the level of some of the stuff you played in the better days under Allardyce at times), the best chances still came from freekicks and long balls.

7 - Should've been a penalty for the Carragher handball. I'd've been spitting feathers, but you see them given.

8 - Davies should have a word with himself about his penalty claim for Kyrgiakos' 'foul' in the second half. Not a chance.

9 - Does Fabrice Muamba offer anything other than a guarantee of being at least two seconds late for all of his tackles?

10 - Lucas is getting better and better with experience.

11 - Meireles was bought as an £11m central midfielder. Playing him on the right of midfield is just barmy.

12 - Did Jussi replace his usual Toblerone-shaped boots with normal ones? Hardly a misplaced kick from him. Most unusual.

13 - Who's that fella running round with the Elmander shirt on? Sure as hell isn't the same player that wore it last season. Looks 100 times better.

14 - I much prefer the new camera angle at the Reebok to the old one

15 - We win these games in spite of Roy, rather than because of him.

Agree with all of that (shock) except the Davies bit as the lad gets kicked all over the park and goes down because he never gets "owt" when he's honest.

But can see your opinion from the other side so to speak.

[Hoboh]

I find our forwards/attack lacking any bite or killer instinct in games like this that are there for the taking rather worrying, we know we are more than capable of defensive lapses and so it proved. Klasnic is the man most ruthless in front of goal and I am afraid his mind is elsewhere at the present. Davo and Mandy need to be more ruthless not toothless in these games, I know about the penalty claims but Christ at times we are begining to sound like Wenger or Red nose, sh*t happens we cannot rely on tight descions going our way, we need to put away our chances!

[ratbert]

http://www.the-wanderer.co.uk/bolton/Th ... eaping-928

My mostly rubbish perspective on the game.

[BWFC_Insane]

I find our forwards/attack lacking any bite or killer instinct in games like this that are there for the taking rather worrying, we know we are more than capable of defensive lapses and so it proved. Klasnic is the man most ruthless in front of goal and I am afraid his mind is elsewhere at the present. Davo and Mandy need to be more ruthless not toothless in these games, I know about the penalty claims but Christ at times we are begining to sound like Wenger or Red nose, sh*t happens we cannot rely on tight descions going our way, we need to put away our chances!

I think you're right Hoboh.

However, if you look at scoring which of our forwards is really guilty? Because his 5 already this season mitigates much criticism for Elmander.

So I think Kev needs to chip in a few more.

But we also need a midfield player who doesn't break up every single forward move as Muamba does, that would help in those tight games.