Nottingham Forest Away

[bobo the clown]

He did it after we conceded, he was happy with his point up to then, that may be an issue?
Why change it if you are in the game... Or are you in the "with this squad in this league we should be hammering @@@ insert team name here @@@@" delusional section?

I'd have had a draw at 3 o'clock if offered, so would DF I suspect, upwards and onwards..

hmmmm.... except that dougie said this week that with the quality we have and players coming back into the squad, there was no reason why we shouldn't win all of our next 8 games... and he then said that promotion is not out of the question...

He did.

Now, I'm all for the power of positive thinking, but exactly what in the months he's been here makes him ... let alone the fans (who, of course, know nothing) ... believe that was likely to happen ?

Today showed that he was, again, blowing it outta his ass.

[wanderers_on_tour]

From the sound of it all we were up against a side playing well, keeping much more control in midfield and also attacking well, plus being at home. The forwards didn't seem to get ther much and in retrospect, Dougie probably had it right in letting KD take the brunt of the scarce forward stuff and stay strong in defence. In that, it worked well enough till Reid's shot. Once we were behind he had to change it, but not enough to be even weaker in defence. It didn't sound like we had too much of the play even till CD scored. Could have been worse.

The forward movement was scarce BECAUSE of Kevin Davies, not in spite of it. Not once did he drop back abd look for the ball, or get stuck in with the defence. The man used to be my hero during my early teens but I can't say a single good word about him today. In retrospect had we started with any other striker upfront we could have deservedly won today, can't agree that Dougie was right in this respect at all.

Can't argue. You were there, I wasn't. Have to say about the bit in bold, the commentary sure didn't indicate that at all. As I said, you were there.

By no way means i'm automatically right or you automatically wrong though TD! In fact there's usually alot I tend not to notice by being at the games over listening to the commentary or watching the stream. For example I didn't even realise we were down to ten men for the last ten until I came on this forum (I must have ran off to the bog at the time)

Was just the opinion I got from the game and seemed the general consensus in the crowd about the striker situation.

[wanderers_on_tour]

Great point away from home. Forest were always going to be up for the game today with Billy Davies back in the building and this being his first game.

I've never seen a crowd go from being absolute silence to pure delirium after watching some cringe worthy video about his return before kick off.

[BL3]

Worth noting that Phil Brown says the mentality of the Bolton team is much improved from that of the start of the season.

I agree with him.

We are mentally weak as a squad, you can have whatever ability you want but there is a losing mentality running through the players and as Simon Charlton remarked few seemed to take real responsibility.

So who are you agreeing with? Phil Brown or Simon Charlton?

[BWFC_Insane]

Worth noting that Phil Brown says the mentality of the Bolton team is much improved from that of the start of the season.

I agree with him.

We are mentally weak as a squad, you can have whatever ability you want but there is a losing mentality running through the players and as Simon Charlton remarked few seemed to take real responsibility.

So who are you agreeing with? Phil Brown or Simon Charlton?

I think both. We are more resilient than we were, collectively.

But still far too mentally weak as individuals and a group to go on a consistent run.

We don't have enough players willing to take games by the scruff of the neck and take responsibility for dragging us through.

So perhaps mentally weak is not the right description.

Perhaps we go back to Jaffka's point, where are the leaders in this squad? The characters who keep you going?

For me Holden is a big miss there but not the only piece missing.

[thebish]

Perhaps we go back to Jaffka's point, where are the leaders in this squad? The characters who keep you going?

we sold him to newcastle who then sold him on to West Ham!

[thebish]

I think both. We are more resilient than we were, collectively.

But still far too mentally weak as individuals and a group to go on a consistent run.

We don't have enough players willing to take games by the scruff of the neck and take responsibility for dragging us through.

So perhaps mentally weak is not the right description.

so we are far too mentally weak - but mentally weak is the wrong description??

[BWFC_Insane]

I think both. We are more resilient than we were, collectively.

But still far too mentally weak as individuals and a group to go on a consistent run.

We don't have enough players willing to take games by the scruff of the neck and take responsibility for dragging us through.

So perhaps mentally weak is not the right description.

so we are far too mentally weak - but mentally weak is the wrong description??

I look round the squad and think 'who is taking responsibility for the result here?'. Too often when we are not playing well it looks like lots of players don't really want the ball. And you think who is trying to drag us through here.

I remember Okocha saying when we played Brum in a relegation battle (and Delroy Facey scored) we were struggling at the time during the game and he looked doing our players for someone to start turning the game round. He didn't see anyone so said to Djorkaeff 'nobody else is doing it, so you and I need to take this game over and ensure we win'.

That sort of thing.

I don't know whether its mentally weak, or just a lot of players that essentially don't care, a group devoid of leaders or what.

But that's the sort of mentality we're missing.

Craig Davies for example seems to have some of that on first glimpses at least.

It's the sort of thing KD used to do when it genuinely was reasonable to put an S in front of his initials.

[thebish]

I agree that we lack leadership - and not just as a whole team - but in the defensive unit - that kind of needs its own leadership... maybe new signings will help at the back - we'll see...

I don't think i agree that KD was ever the leader we needed... despite the last days and the pantomime pointing and shouting - I don't think we've had that since Nolly...

I think lack of leadership is a very different thing than the whole squad being mentally weak..

funnily enough - with very different squad - I think we have quite a similar problem to arsenal. They lack leadership - since they gave the captaincy to Fibreglass in a vain attempt to keep him at the club...

Wenger also seems to misdiagnose this as mental weakness through the team - he is always saying stuff like "we lack a leetle beet of mental toughness" - when actually, what they lack is leadership...

this is probably over-simplified - it's never that simple and it's rarely only one thing - but we do lack the do-or-die one-for-all/all-for-one attitude that we once seemed to have... whether a good nolly-type leader can make that happen with this squad, I'm not really qualified to guess.. but I doubt that the whole squad would have to be replaced to find it because they are all mentally weak.

[BWFC_Insane]

I agree that we lack leadership - and not just as a whole team - but in the defensive unit - that kind of needs its own leadership... maybe new signings will help at the back - we'll see...

I don't think i agree that KD was ever the leader we needed... despite the last days and the pantomime pointing and shouting - I don't think we've had that since Nolly...

I think lack of leadership is a very different thing than the whole squad being mentally weak..

funnily enough - with very different squad - I think we have quite a similar problem to arsenal. They lack leadership - since they gave the captaincy to Fibreglass in a vain attempt to keep him at the club...

Wenger also seems to misdiagnose this as mental weakness through the team - he is always saying stuff like "we lack a leetle beet of mental toughness" - when actually, what they lack is leadership...

this is probably over-simplified - it's never that simple and it's rarely only one thing - but we do lack the do-or-die one-for-all/all-for-one attitude that we once seemed to have... whether a good nolly-type leader can make that happen with this squad, I'm not really qualified to guess.. but I doubt that the whole squad would have to be replaced to find it because they are all mentally weak.

But for me it's more than 'leadership' in the traditional, Tony Adams or Roy Keane sense.

It's about responsibility.

KD used to take that responsibility where balls thrown up at him wouldn't come back. He'd chase the back line and 'lead' from the front. He'd take the responsibility of leading the line and wanting the ball and wanting to chase it down.

Holden did very similar things in midfield at his best. Took responsibility for passing and moving and winning it back. And rarely went missing.

For me we have an awful lot who look good when we are on top, but you wonder where they are when things aren't going too well.

[thebish]

For me we have an awful lot who look good when we are on top, but you wonder where they are when things aren't going too well.

and yet - we ARE coming back to draw/win games that we have gone behind in.... and losing games that we were ahead in...

if players look good when we are on top - why do we not go further ahead? and if we go missing when we go behind (or things don't go well) - why do we equalise/go on to win?

[89bwfc89]

I think both. We are more resilient than we were, collectively.

But still far too mentally weak as individuals and a group to go on a consistent run.

We don't have enough players willing to take games by the scruff of the neck and take responsibility for dragging us through.

So perhaps mentally weak is not the right description.

so we are far too mentally weak - but mentally weak is the wrong description??

I look round the squad and think 'who is taking responsibility for the result here?'. Too often when we are not playing well it looks like lots of players don't really want the ball. And you think who is trying to drag us through here.

I remember Okocha saying when we played Brum in a relegation battle (and Delroy Facey scored) we were struggling at the time during the game and he looked doing our players for someone to start turning the game round. He didn't see anyone so said to Djorkaeff 'nobody else is doing it, so you and I need to take this game over and ensure we win'.

That sort of thing.

I don't know whether its mentally weak, or just a lot of players that essentially don't care, a group devoid of leaders or what.

But that's the sort of mentality we're missing.

Craig Davies for example seems to have some of that on first glimpses at least.

It's the sort of thing KD used to do when it genuinely was reasonable to put an S in front of his initials.

I honestly think Jay Spearing at least tries to do this.

[TKIZ!]

I blame the internet

[coffeymagic]

We had family up at the weekend so only got to sneek glances at Twitter to see what was going on.

From what I could glean the game wasn't much cop with us playing for the draw we eventually got.

One thing though there was a fair bit of criticism of the Forest fans. What were they up to?

And where are all these flares coming from?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

We had family up at the weekend so only got to sneek glances at Twitter to see what was going on.

From what I could glean the game wasn't much cop with us playing for the draw we eventually got.

One thing though there was a fair bit of criticism of the Forest fans. What were they up to?

And where are all these flares coming from?

Probably Libya. Wait till they start letting off rocket-propelled grenades.

[boltonboris]

We had family up at the weekend so only got to sneek glances at Twitter to see what was going on.

From what I could glean the game wasn't much cop with us playing for the draw we eventually got.

One thing though there was a fair bit of criticism of the Forest fans. What were they up to?

And where are all these flares coming from?

I quite like it.. Very European!

[Annoyed Grunt]

We had family up at the weekend so only got to sneek glances at Twitter to see what was going on.

From what I could glean the game wasn't much cop with us playing for the draw we eventually got.

One thing though there was a fair bit of criticism of the Forest fans. What were they up to?

And where are all these flares coming from?

I know someone that knows someone.........it's them.

[m_taylor]

TBH I believe that the season is over for us and the players know it. NO chance of promotion and they feel there is no danger of us getting relegated. What are they playing for? (its should be us after all the crap we have had to put up with in the last 2 years but it doesn't look that way) I also think DF knows this hence the last rallying cry to the players saying we can still make the play-offs when we all know!! We can't even win back to back games never mind win 10 of the last 15 games!!

[TANGODANCER]

TBH I believe that the season is over for us and the players know it. NO chance of promotion and they feel there is no danger of us getting relegated. What are they playing for? (its should be us after all the crap we have had to put up with in the last 2 years but it doesn't look that way) I also think DF knows this hence the last rallying cry to the players saying we can still make the play-offs when we all know!! We can't even win back to back games never mind win 10 of the last 15 games!!

I'd be very dissapointed if that were the case. Every professional footballer wants to play at the top, the wages lure not being the least, despite some claims. I'd be even more pxssed off if player like Dawson, Craig Davies, De Ridder and our returning lads felt that way already. Let's wait a bit and keep trying before throwing towels about. If we're giving up already, what's the point of it all? Surely players want to be seen as good, even potential targets for bigger clubs. They won't get that by being seen as non-trying losers surely?

[BWFC_Insane]

TBH I believe that the season is over for us and the players know it. NO chance of promotion and they feel there is no danger of us getting relegated. What are they playing for? (its should be us after all the crap we have had to put up with in the last 2 years but it doesn't look that way) I also think DF knows this hence the last rallying cry to the players saying we can still make the play-offs when we all know!! We can't even win back to back games never mind win 10 of the last 15 games!!

I'd be very dissapointed if that were the case. Every professional footballer wants to play at the top, the wages lure not being the least, despite some claims. I'd be even more pxssed off if player like Dawson, Craig Davies, De Ridder and our returning lads felt that way already. Let's wait a bit and keep trying before throwing towels about. If we're giving up already, what's the point of it all? Surely players want to be seen as good, even potential targets for bigger clubs. They won't get that by being seen as non-trying losers surely?

Christ we could still very easily go down. So from that point of view the season is definitely not over and any of our players thinking that want telling.

However, in terms of the play offs that ship has well and truly sailed.

Even a run of form that would be our best run in over a decade would probably only take us close rather than actually get us there. And there are absolutely no signs of that coming.

Chance of the play offs is long long long gone.