Full Steam Ahead to Orient (a) 10/08, 17:30

[malcd1]

I think we almost played four at the back against Mansfield, when we had the ball at least. If we attacked down our right, Tutu went forward and Williams sat back. At the same time, all three centre halves shuffled across to the right so Forino was almost playing as a right back. The same happened if we attacked down the left with Tutu sitting in more.

I would guess it is a way to prevent that cross field ball Orient used against us so effectively. It will be interesting to see if we do the same against Wrexham.

[BWFC_Insane]

We have a back three. Notoriously they have gaps down the side.

Every system has weaknesses that can be attacked.

When we were playing a 4 you were complaining about them too.

I’ve never been a big fan of back threes going back to Todd trying one out. I’ve always thought it’s a hard system to play when you need to tighten games up. Not impossible but I think it’s tough. Wing backs can’t usually do it all and it leaves a weakness somewhere - either scoring goals or being more open than you’d like.

[GhostoftheBok]

I would guess it is a way to prevent that cross field ball Orient used against us so effectively. It will be interesting to see if we do the same against Wrexham.

We did the same in preseason, with Conway often right up the pitch as a winger.

We're trying to get the best of both worlds, depending what happens in the game.

Hopefully it works.

[Worthy4England]

We play in a convoluted way that requires players generally of a better standard that usual at this level.

No, I don't think that's correct.

We play a system that demands technical players. We play 3-at-the-back partially because it allows us to play smaller, more technical mids - by putting an extra big guy at the back. Santos steps up to win headers and make tackles, which means we can play lads like Sheehan and Matete deeper.

I don't think we have a massively better set of players than the clubs that finished above us last season in Derby and Portsmouth. In fact, they both took players we wanted to improve us. The clubs below us had plenty of quality too. People are talking like we struggled, whereas what's happening is essentially the same as trying to move from being a CL-qualifying side to winning the Premier League. It's fine details.

We out-perform our budgets. Which is all you can really ask for. Thus far not enough to go up.

The only major failing we've had is the play-off final.

Every club that's been promoted has had a bigger budget than us over the 2-3 seasons prior to their promotion. Every single one (including Oxford).

We've used our money well and improved most of the players we've signed. We fell just short. Hopefully we go one better this time.

At this level and with our budgets you do have to make compromises on players, especially in the wider squad. Almost all clubs do that. People might be more comfortable if the compromises were worse technical players, in favour of big lads - but we finished 3rd. So what we are doing clearly delivers a lot of wins.

The only thing that counts is promotion. Last years budgets didn't help Plymouth when they had 10 out injured in Jan. Bored of listening to excuses. Shit, or get off the pot.

[BWFC_Insane]

We play in a convoluted way that requires players generally of a better standard that usual at this level.

No, I don't think that's correct.

We play a system that demands technical players. We play 3-at-the-back partially because it allows us to play smaller, more technical mids - by putting an extra big guy at the back. Santos steps up to win headers and make tackles, which means we can play lads like Sheehan and Matete deeper.

I don't think we have a massively better set of players than the clubs that finished above us last season in Derby and Portsmouth. In fact, they both took players we wanted to improve us. The clubs below us had plenty of quality too. People are talking like we struggled, whereas what's happening is essentially the same as trying to move from being a CL-qualifying side to winning the Premier League. It's fine details.

We out-perform our budgets. Which is all you can really ask for. Thus far not enough to go up.

The only major failing we've had is the play-off final.

Every club that's been promoted has had a bigger budget than us over the 2-3 seasons prior to their promotion. Every single one (including Oxford).

We've used our money well and improved most of the players we've signed. We fell just short. Hopefully we go one better this time.

At this level and with our budgets you do have to make compromises on players, especially in the wider squad. Almost all clubs do that. People might be more comfortable if the compromises were worse technical players, in favour of big lads - but we finished 3rd. So what we are doing clearly delivers a lot of wins.

The only thing that counts is promotion. Last years budgets didn't help Plymouth when they had 10 out injured in Jan. Bored of listening to excuses. Shit, or get off the pot.

Yep this. We’ve failed the last two seasons miserably when it mattered. If Evatt can’t deliver this season he’s a very poor manager. And we’ve been absolutely had for three seasons.

[Mar]

I'm also a fan of hyperbole.

Good managers can fail. Guardiola at Bayern, Mourinho at United.

I fail to see how getting promoted and breaking our goalscoring records but failing a subsequent promotion makes someone a bad manager.

I'm sure had we been promoted you would be using the argument that it doesn't make Evatt a good manager and that he got there by the skin of his teeth. It may just be that you don't like his methods. That's fine.

Parkinson got us relegated but there's no way I'd consider him a bad manager when survival was all that mattered.

Promotion is what matters this season but I'd be hard pressed to come away thinking Evatts been a bad manager for the club.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm also a fan of hyperbole.

Good managers can fail. Guardiola at Bayern, Mourinho at United.

I fail to see how getting promoted and breaking our goalscoring records but failing a subsequent promotion makes someone a bad manager.

I'm sure had we been promoted you would be using the argument that it doesn't make Evatt a good manager and that he got there by the skin of his teeth. It may just be that you don't like his methods. That's fine.

Parkinson got us relegated but there's no way I'd consider him a bad manager when survival was all that mattered.

Promotion is what matters this season but I'd be hard pressed to come away thinking Evatts been a bad manager for the club.

Evatt has an identical record to Phil Neal. Enough said.

Parky got us up first time in an embargo in circumstances Evatt wouldn’t have come close to coping with. Evatt has had years to build a side and spent a lot of money. There are no excuses. Bolton wanderers stuck in league one does not make you a good manager. IMHO.

[Mar]

Not overly keen on engaging in the back and forth on this but just out of interest did Neal end up breaking goalscoring records at the time?

It was before I started watching so I'm not sure.

[BWFC_Insane]

Not overly keen on engaging in the back and forth on this but just out of interest did Neal end up breaking goalscoring records at the time?

It was before I started watching so I'm not sure.

Nobody gives a shiny shite about goal scoring records. It’s completely irrelevant.

[DJBlu]

Not overly keen on engaging in the back and forth on this but just out of interest did Neal end up breaking goalscoring records at the time?

It was before I started watching so I'm not sure.

Nobody gives a shiny shite about goal scoring records. It’s completely irrelevant.

So you're taking out the bits that don't work when a direct comparison is being made?

[BWFC_Insane]

Not overly keen on engaging in the back and forth on this but just out of interest did Neal end up breaking goalscoring records at the time?

It was before I started watching so I'm not sure.

Nobody gives a shiny shite about goal scoring records. It’s completely irrelevant.

So you're taking out the bits that don't work when a direct comparison is being made?

Because you either get the points to go up or you don’t. Whether that’s through scoring a million goals or conceding just 1 it doesn’t impact the record of the club during the period.

Evatt has a chance to break the Neal curse this season but like worthy I think it’s reasonable to say there are no excuses he has to deliver it this time and do so under pressure. That is what he’s here for.

[GhostoftheBok]

The only thing that counts is promotion. Last years budgets didn't help Plymouth when they had 10 out injured in Jan. Bored of listening to excuses. Shit, or get off the pot.

It's not excuses, it's the realities of the business.

Too many people think the badge wins matches and that being Bolton Wanderers means we should go up.

You go up based on the resources available and the quality of work you do with them.

The more you have available the easier your job is.

To get the point where we should have gone up last season took years of good work.

Yes, only promotion matters; but the idea that we've been getting it fundamentally wrong for ages is bollocks. It's not going to stop being bollocks because you're bored.

[Mar]

Not overly keen on engaging in the back and forth on this but just out of interest did Neal end up breaking goalscoring records at the time?

It was before I started watching so I'm not sure.

Nobody gives a shiny shite about goal scoring records. It’s completely irrelevant.

More goals = more entertainment

We pay to be entertained otherwise what's the point?

[Mar]

The only thing that counts is promotion. Last years budgets didn't help Plymouth when they had 10 out injured in Jan. Bored of listening to excuses. Shit, or get off the pot.

It's not excuses, it's the realities of the business.

Too many people think the badge wins matches and that being Bolton Wanderers means we should go up.

You go up based on the resources available and the quality of work you do with them.

The more you have available the easier your job is.

To get the point where we should have gone up last season took years of good work.

Yes, only promotion matters; but the idea that we've been getting it fundamentally wrong for ages is bollocks. It's not going to stop being bollocks because you're bored.

Similar to most games and seasons. Were not going to get it all right but if we get most of it right as we have been doing, we should come away with better outcomes.

[GhostoftheBok]

Similar to most games and seasons. Were not going to get it all right but if we get most of it right as we have been doing, we should come away with better outcomes.

The reality is that a manager/staff can do a good job with what's available, but not a good enough job to achieve what is needed.

Overall Evatt's done a good job, but he failed last season and in particular totally cocked-up the play-off final. You're only ever as good as the big game. That's also a reality.

He's got another crack at it and he has to go all the way this time or he's probably cooked.

[TANGODANCER]

Similar to most games and seasons. Were not going to get it all right but if we get most of it right as we have been doing, we should come away with better outcomes.

The reality is that a manager/staff can do a good job with what's available, but not a good enough job to achieve what is needed.

Overall Evatt's done a good job, but he failed last season and in particular totally cocked-up the play-off final. You're only ever as good as the big game. That's also a reality.

He's got another crack at it and he has to go all the way this time or he's probably cooked.

I'm not quite sure he can do much more than the best we can with what we have, something shared by twenty plus other managers in our division He doesn't actually play or mis chances or get injured, even though he gets carded occasionally.

[BWFC_Insane]

The only thing that counts is promotion. Last years budgets didn't help Plymouth when they had 10 out injured in Jan. Bored of listening to excuses. Shit, or get off the pot.

It's not excuses, it's the realities of the business.

Too many people think the badge wins matches and that being Bolton Wanderers means we should go up.

You go up based on the resources available and the quality of work you do with them.

The more you have available the easier your job is.

To get the point where we should have gone up last season took years of good work.

Yes, only promotion matters; but the idea that we've been getting it fundamentally wrong for ages is bollocks. It's not going to stop being bollocks because you're bored.

How many teams in history have looked good, played nice football taken the plaudits but when it mattered failed?

Doing that repeatedly means something is fundamentally wrong. Most critical trait in managers and teams is ability to get over the line. It’s a thing. It’s an ability.

[Prufrock]

When he walked through the door we had two senior players with about 10 league stats between them. Promoted at the first time of asking. Then three years in League 1, with a top 6 budget at best. Stabilised and then two two play off finishes.

Finished higher every season under him.

Won a trophy at Wembley.

I mean it's not a bad record...

[Mar]

Similar to most games and seasons. Were not going to get it all right but if we get most of it right as we have been doing, we should come away with better outcomes.

The reality is that a manager/staff can do a good job with what's available, but not a good enough job to achieve what is needed.

Overall Evatt's done a good job, but he failed last season and in particular totally cocked-up the play-off final. You're only ever as good as the big game. That's also a reality.

He's got another crack at it and he has to go all the way this time or he's probably cooked.

Evatt's not perfect, he's made mistakes. His players have also. It's a team effort and can't be put solely down to Evatt. Evatt's tactics help create chances that should've been buried last season. If we score those we get promoted. There was a highlight reel of near misses last season. Fine margins.

Evatt did make mistakes in the final and in other big games, again he's not going to get them right all the time. Its just ever so irksome when its the final.


It'll be hard to see him trying again in League One next season. I suspect that it would be now or never.

[GhostoftheBok]

I suspect that it would be now or never.

You'd have to think so. There are other good managers about who'd kill for the job.