Grecians from Devon? At home to Exeter Sat,31st Aug ,3-0'clock

[Worthy4England]

I’d worry about those wide areas, we’ve barely managed a meaningful cross and apart from Tutu they don’t look capable of flying past opponents. Schon looks technically talented but he’s not screaming natural wing back at me yet.

We don't play to cross. We want cut-backs. We've seen quite a lot of that, just no takers.

Schon is pretty quick and hard working. Not as good one-on-one as I was hoping, but very capable.

We'll see how it breaks. I'd not put my mortgage on it working, but I'm quite happy with them at the moment.

Tutu's ability to play on the left is very welcome.

I will take your word from it but if that is true it’s total bollocks. You can’t limit your chance creation to one move. If we can’t get in behind which we frequently can’t, don’t think Schon has got in behind once in the last two league games, then, you need to put delivery into the box.

I think we've favoured that for about 4 years mate...But like you, I feel it's somewhat limiting. Sometimes to the point of missing decent runs in by strikers, because the main plan is cut back to the apex. I'm feeling x and G might be making an appearance shortly...

[GhostoftheBok]

I will take your word from it but if that is true it’s total bollocks. You can’t limit your chance creation to one move. If we can’t get in behind which we frequently can’t, don’t think Schon has got in behind once in the last two league games, then, you need to put delivery into the box.

Crosses to Dion are very low percentage, so we're not going to just knock it in. If we cross it we want it going in on the break, so defenders are turned around. If they're set we're not looping one in too often. It's why we come back and then use the inswinger - to force that movement back towards the goal.

[GhostoftheBok]

Sometimes to the point of missing decent runs in by strikers

If there's a run with movement in the defensive unit they're meant to try and find it. It's when the defence is set they're instructed to find another route in.

They do refuse more crosses than they should. It's something Evatt highlighted when asked recently in one of the interviews. He doesn't want them stood around on the edge of the box.

[GhostoftheBok]

Interestingly, Schon has the 3rd or 4th (depending how you interpret the data) highest crossing rate of any lefty fullback/wingback in the division.

It seems we've put in 83 crosses so far this season in the league. So around 20 a game. 6th highest in the division.

I'd need to do a proper deep dive to figure out exactly how we've been using the ball vs my own confirmation bias. Might be worth looking at.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I get that is how you saw it. It wasn’t very good. But I look at the players we had…to keep that side up was a miracle however it was done.

Anyway on another note what is ironic is that the two full backs (not always used) that Parky had in Little and obviously a then young Antonee Robinson are the exact sorts we need at wing back now but lack, bar maybe Tutu (who I think looks good but questionable defensively).

Much as I agree it'd be nice to have an Antonee Robinson, that would be the player that Parky left out of the XI in 7 of those vital last 11 games, including that utterly gutless surrender of a performance at Burton.

Parky in his first season did very well. Parky in his second season was astonishingly lucky (lowest non-relegated points total in the 30+ years since there'd been 24 teams in the division). It was almost unremittingly awful.

But we're getting off the point, as is often the case. I totally get the desire to be promoted and I want it too, but what I don't share is the idea that any season in the division above is automatically better. Was Rioch's second season more enjoyable than his first? Maybe for some, and the cup wins were fun, but that's nowt to do with league position.

I like watching us win. I would love to watch us wn our way to promotion. And then take the fight to the division above. Dunno if Evatt can do that. He's got a finite amount of time to prove it.

[BWFC_Insane]

I will take your word from it but if that is true it’s total bollocks. You can’t limit your chance creation to one move. If we can’t get in behind which we frequently can’t, don’t think Schon has got in behind once in the last two league games, then, you need to put delivery into the box.

Crosses to Dion are very low percentage, so we're not going to just knock it in. If we cross it we want it going in on the break, so defenders are turned around. If they're set we're not looping one in too often. It's why we come back and then use the inswinger - to force that movement back towards the goal.

Sure I agree. We did try to cross the ball a few times on Saturday it’s just they were all dreadful.

I will say though that the cut back is crazy at times. Number of times even just this season we’ve got in our wide and a dink up to the back post is a certain goal yet we’ve gone low or tried the cut back is crazy. Salah showed the way today. I get it’s a skill to do it but if we’ve got wing backs who can’t regularly stick a chip onto the back stick id question if they should be playing.

[GhostoftheBok]

If there's a free man they should be hitting him. That's not Evatt, that's the players.

This is where we've been caught in a perfect storm of shitness thus far.

Manager getting it wrong too often and the players not producing the quality we need.

I have confidence the players will come good. The question marks for me are around Evatt.

[Worthy4England]

I think there is an element that's not on the players - sure the coaches don't want them to miss that perfect near post run with a cross but if the tone is don't lose possession and only cross when it's clear cut, the de facto answer is to pull it back as that's the "safer option" than possibly a defender nipping in front of the striker - so you default to pull back being the one that doesn't get you earache and probably miss more decent crossing opportunities that perhaps if the direction was a bit different.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think there is an element that's not on the players - sure the coaches don't want them to miss that perfect near post run with a cross but if the tone is don't lose possession and only cross when it's clear cut, the de facto answer is to pull it back as that's the "safer option" than possibly a defender nipping in front of the striker - so you default to pull back being the one that doesn't get you earache and probably miss more decent crossing opportunities that perhaps if the direction was a bit different.

I keep coming back to good managers simplify the game for players, and let players talents come out. I feel we are playing a game that is too complex for the players we’ve got. You see good forward players who look lost and struggle in the final third. I doubt this is a direct result of ‘Evatt says only cut backs’ cos I doubt he does.

But for example Bruce Rioch had one striker go near post, one go far post and delivered the cross - I don’t know how many goals we scored like that but it simplified the games if Mixu and Coyle and McGinlay and to one extent or another they thrived. And then we had wide players who had to deliver a good cross, often after beating their man. Which they were more than capable of.

When I watch us now we get into the final third and how often when doing that are we shoveling the ball from out to in with each successive player who receives it looking more and more uncomfortable to do so and less and less sure what they should be doing with it.

The key to opening up sides as has been noted is to turn them round. But sides don’t leave the space in behind and our wide men are not David Lee and Alan Thompson so simply aren’t naturally going to run and beat their men time and time again nor hit the byline. So a cross betwixt defence and keeper is a way to turn them round. But again the quality of crosses into the box from JDC and as Jon is dire. And they don’t try often. Short of that I struggle to see how we intend to consistently create chances. Because we are not good enough (and I don’t think any team at this level is) to consistently create through the middle.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think there is an element that's not on the players - sure the coaches don't want them to miss that perfect near post run with a cross but if the tone is don't lose possession and only cross when it's clear cut, the de facto answer is to pull it back as that's the "safer option" than possibly a defender nipping in front of the striker - so you default to pull back being the one that doesn't get you earache and probably miss more decent crossing opportunities that perhaps if the direction was a bit different.

I think there's truth in this. We need to be flexible *within* the system (as well as my loingterm bugbear of being flexible *within* systems).

When managers get very proscriptive, it can be a problem - and to be fair to Evatt, he has banged on several times about wanting them to "solve problems" and "find the space". In D4 he had lower expectations of their problem-solving abilities, but now these really are good players for the level - they're intelligent. Do they feel restricted? Are they just nervous? Or are we still in a situation where they're rote-learning the latest One True Way (v5.0, The Box Midfield aka 3-4-2-1)?

[Worthy4England]

Well, yes Insani, but if our gameplan isn't to generally do that (and evidentially it doesn't appear to be), then "crossing" might not be the number one attribute. If we don't do it very often. I doubt I'd say JDCs strongest part was crossing, ability to get up and down maybe. Cut back, yeah pretty decent...

[Worthy4England]

I think there is an element that's not on the players - sure the coaches don't want them to miss that perfect near post run with a cross but if the tone is don't lose possession and only cross when it's clear cut, the de facto answer is to pull it back as that's the "safer option" than possibly a defender nipping in front of the striker - so you default to pull back being the one that doesn't get you earache and probably miss more decent crossing opportunities that perhaps if the direction was a bit different.

I think there's truth in this. We need to be flexible *within* the system (as well as my loingterm bugbear of being flexible *within* systems).

When managers get very proscriptive, it can be a problem - and to be fair to Evatt, he has banged on several times about wanting them to "solve problems" and "find the space". In D4 he had lower expectations of their problem-solving abilities, but now these really are good players for the level - they're intelligent. Do they feel restricted? Are they just nervous? Or are we still in a situation where they're rote-learning the latest One True Way (v5.0, The Box Midfield aka 3-4-2-1)?

All I'd say to that, I think DSB, is I've lost count on the Worthyometer of how many times it's hit the "whydidn'tyoufcukingcrossit!" measure, with a fair old smattering of "jesuswhatwasthat." I don't have it down as a core strength generally. Bradley who was pretty decent would often put a great ball in to somewhere we weren't. Etc.

Like most bits when you disassemble them, it's less of a pressing problem when you've won 7-0...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

All I'd say to that, I think DSB, is I've lost count on the Worthyometer of how many times it's hit the "whydidn'tyoufcukingcrossit!" measure, with a fair old smattering of "jesuswhatwasthat." I don't have it down as a core strength generally. Bradley who was pretty decent would often put a great ball in to somewhere we weren't. Etc.

Yep, I can empathise with the disappointment - our final-third fumblings have sometimes resembled an inexpert teenage attempt to unclasp a bra...

The fact we're often looking into the middle and seeing a dimunitive Dion may be part of the ready-reckoning, but it still goes awry an awful lot – and I understand those who ask "If that's not the plan, what is?", because it doesn't always seem lucid.

[BWFC_Insane]

‘Can’t criticise the effort’….

Ermmm yes you can. This is a group that definitely does not bleed for the badge.

https://x.com/seanwanderers1/status/183 ... o4TppbHkNQ

[boltonboris]

Shambles. Again.

It's not even like you're looking at them and thinking, yeah we'll click soon. The performances from individuals and the team aren't there. We look slow, lacking combativeness, devoid of creativity and considering how many times we gave the ball away on Saturday, scared of making mistakes so don't play any progressive football.

I can't see it changing with the personnel we have playing the system we are playing. Especially against any side with a modicum of organisation

[GhostoftheBok]

Just watching the Full 90 on Wanderers TV and there are so many "League One" moments.

Dempsey breaks clear on 17 minutes with two players to hit in the middle of the box. World's easiest cross. Somehow hits the only defender.

2 minutes later the same Dempsey players a worldy pass into McAtee, only for McAtee to miscontrol.

Immediately after that Evatt loses the game by failing to react to their changes, but even so he must ben tearing his hair out at some of this stuff.

These are things these players do usually get right, but it's just not happening right now.

4th bottom for goals to shots ratio. 2nd worst XG to actual.

These lads need to start putting the ball in the net. Their records say they will.

[boltonboris]

Just watching the Full 90 on Wanderers TV

You sick vile pervert

[GhostoftheBok]

You sick vile pervert

Yeah, I'm over the emotion now.

Can't say I'm enjoying it, though.

It's my eldest's birthday, so at least there's cake.

[DJBlu]

‘Can’t criticise the effort’….

Ermmm yes you can. This is a group that definitely does not bleed for the badge.

https://x.com/seanwanderers1/status/183 ... o4TppbHkNQ

Aye, he should go in full blooded there and literally bleed for the badge.

I can hear the complaints now, why has he gone in there. Nothing challenge etc.

Again, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Most the fan base are just jumping on anything to have a go. That'll work. Zero positivity.

[BWFC_Insane]

‘Can’t criticise the effort’….

Ermmm yes you can. This is a group that definitely does not bleed for the badge.

https://x.com/seanwanderers1/status/183 ... o4TppbHkNQ

Aye, he should go in full blooded there and literally bleed for the badge.

I can hear the complaints now, why has he gone in there. Nothing challenge etc.

Again, damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

Most the fan base are just jumping on anything to have a go. That'll work. Zero positivity.

There is no excuse for pulling out of that tackle. Not one.

Can we have a proper team back? Please. Something to be proud of.