Terriers Barking, But Can Bolton Bite Back? - Bolton v Hudderfield - 14/09/2024 @ 3pm

[officer_dibble]

An absolute side note but that final goal today (1) is probably a fitting end to Evatts reign, and (2) reminded me of that one we shipped at Wigan where remi Matthews rolled it out to their centre forward. To be shipping goals like that now without the backdrop we had then is pretty unbelievable.

[GhostoftheBok]

Not sure he'd leave his top-flight club in his home country...

I was mostly joking. He's just very much the "data" hire for our requirements.

The sensible ones haven't changed.

Unfortunately it'll probably be Lowe.

[BWFC_Insane]

If we're talking contacts and "who knows who" then David Wagner is out of a job at the minute.

One success at Huddersfield followed by a long list of failures. Another manager deemed good far too early based on far too little for me.

That said, one of a vanishingly small number of managers to be promoted with negative goal difference, so it might please the minimalists to whom results are everything.


(Cheers Pru - interesting)

We may be revolutionary, though. Gerald Scheiblehner anyone?

Gesundheit.

Not sure he'd leave his top-flight club in his home country...

Maybe if he comes as a package with his mate Klopp….

[Prufrock]

They definitely do.

Yes, but it's more based around in-house work and boutique contract stuff.

The raw data is valuable and available. The modelling is a lot of man-hours and much more specific, so isn't offered in detail by the aggregators.

Agents are increasingly keen on it, as a way of selling clients. Elite clubs tend to use data to track a longlist of coaches at all times, just in case.

At our level the most you'd usually see would be a tight selection of data used to test a short list.

We may be revolutionary, though. Gerald Scheiblehner anyone?

Aye, that's what I meant by sifting. Presumably we're hoping those connections get us the "free trial" version of this stuff that means we can at least narrow down the pool/rule a few people out/in? Better than nothing.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

An absolute side note but that final goal today (1) is probably a fitting end to Evatts reign, and (2) reminded me of that one we shipped at Wigan where remi Matthews rolled it out to their centre forward. To be shipping goals like that now without the backdrop we had then is pretty unbelievable.

That last goal was properly "why does someone always play the tuba as my pants fall down" comic. And as you say fitting for all the wrong reasons: Sheehan dribbling backwards and playing an awful ball to his goalkeeper who then does what pretty much all the defenders in front of him have done in turn, ie gormlessly give it to the oppo.

Put it this way: if it was the last act of a match I watched in a drama, I'd call it unrealistically expositional.

[Prufrock]

An absolute side note but that final goal today (1) is probably a fitting end to Evatts reign, and (2) reminded me of that one we shipped at Wigan where remi Matthews rolled it out to their centre forward. To be shipping goals like that now without the backdrop we had then is pretty unbelievable.

Just completely muddled, throughout. He's not a great manager, but he's not terrible. But it's just gone. Pressure has got too much for everyone and their heads have gone. Awful decisions everywhere, everyone feeling sorry for themselves, down in the dumps. Needs a new voice. Sometimes that comes from within, but seems clear that time has well gone.

No coming back, kinder for everyone to get it done.

[GhostoftheBok]

Put it this way: if it was the last act of a match I watched in a drama, I'd call it unrealistically expositional.

In the movie that's the game you watch before the new guy comes in and saves the season; but it's a bad movie, made for kids.

I feel for Evatt, as he's done loads of good here. However, he's done enough good that he should now lift out. The football department - the recruitment, the B Team, etc - should run without him.

The whole point of that department is winning games of football with the first team. That's currently bollocksed up. Getting rid of the gaffer isn't always the simple fix it seems, but this time it really does look like it is.

Functional department, some very good players for the level...get a new manager in.

Huge shake-ups at the club, though, from being the most stable in the division. Front and back of house both (potentially) losing the people at the top.

Interesting times.

[Mar]

IE via Bolton News:

“From the moment the final whistle went at Wembley I felt a massive black cloud and negative energy around the whole club. At the minute I can’t seem to shift it and I can’t find the answers.

“I feel like that is everything against what I am as a person, what we have built here, and at the minute I don’t have the answers.”

---------------

It's nice that he's being honest about the situation he faces, although this is seemingly far too late for the short term resolution we needed.

If he had felt the club had a massive black cloud and negative energy around the whole club since the final whistle at Wembley, why the hell did it take so long before they managed to acknowledge it.

It was front and centre at the club for MONTHS, sure the England matches hid it well, but it was literally MONTHS of frustration, no acknowledgement and no attempt at saying they'll put it right.

For most it was a traumatic moment, a pathetic turnout and no apologies given. Managers and players hiding from a pathetic performance.

I can forgive them not coming out on the day, the pain is raw, but the fact we had nothing to show from the club at all levels just smacks of a disconnect that I thought the club had moved past. Sharon et al had done loads to reconnect with the fans and build bridges after the KA madness and yet, all that was seemingly undone by a shitshow at Wembley.

Whether that was Evatt or the players not taking accountability there was something clearly wrong with the club. Going into the new season with that simmering has done us no favours whatsoever.

Our slide in terms of shots:

Leyton Orient: 8 shots, 3 on target, 3 off, 2 blocked
Wrexham: 11 shots, 8 on target, 3 off
Charlton: 13 shots, 3 on, 8 off, 2 blocked
Exeter: 6 shots, 2 on, 2 off, 2 blocked
Huddersfield: 5 shots, 1 on, 1 off, 3 blocked


That's FOUR games that we've never really looked like winning. Leyton Orient was a fluke as their goalie had a howler (probably balances out Dion's miss). Wrexham, the one game we should've won their goalie had a great game (balances out the Leyton Orient game I guess) and the rest has just been a shit show of poor performances.

17 shots on target in 5 games. Terrible.

We've gone from scoring over 100 goals in a calendar year to scoring the least number of goals in the league this season.

It's a tough job the board have got deciding on Evatt, but days like today and goals like the Baxter gift just make it that little bit easier deciding his fate.


That last goal today is a prime example of us being sussed out by the opposition.

[officer_dibble]

Alongside the poor preparation and tactics of pound shop pep I’m convinced it’s mentality. We’ve had three big crowds at home and the players just go into their shells. We’ve no real leaders. No one willing to grab the game by the scruff of the neck. We need some Gudni Bergson, Per Frandsen, Jamie Pollock and John Sheridans. We didn’t get that in the summer. Whilst I get the view being we have good players for this level we don’t have the right mix at all. I think the next manager will have to sign some in Jan to keep us in the league, probably at the expense of a sale or two - Charles, Sheehan maybe. I think anyone who thinks we’re turning this round now and we’ll be in the playoffs is wildly optimistic.

[GhostoftheBok]

That last goal today is a prime example of us being sussed out by the opposition.

He's put out a system that should have helped, but it's like he's downloaded a tactic for Football Manager and doesn't understand how it works. That sides of things is easy to fix, but it's getting worse and not better.

Usually it's alright, because it's worked well enough to push us through most games. This season it's not and he looks lost.

Ian's got away with being iffy in-game (still good for the level, but certainly iffy) by being a genuinely top-level training ground coach by League One standards. This season he's clearly not getting that side of things done.

Apparently there's a big black cloud over Lostock making it hard to see in the gloom. You'd think the sun that shines out of his arse would compensate, but alas no.

[BWFC_Insane]

Iles just said on his post game audio summary that he felt bad vibes all summer didn’t think we’d be anywhere near promotion and that there is a lot wrong.

He also said the team lack bottle….hmmm….

[GhostoftheBok]

Iles just said on his post game audio summary that he felt bad vibes all summer didn’t think we’d be anywhere near promotion

Marc is often wise after the fact, but assuming that's the case you have to ask how Sharon's "root and branch" review missed all these black clouds and bad vibes that are now so obvious to everyone with a view inside.

[BWFC_Insane]

Iles just said on his post game audio summary that he felt bad vibes all summer didn’t think we’d be anywhere near promotion

Marc is often wise after the fact, but assuming that's the case you have to ask how Sharon's "root and branch" review missed all these black clouds and bad vibes that are now so obvious to everyone with a view inside.

He seems to be suggesting we didn’t get the signings we needed. Whether he means in his view or Evatt didn’t get his choices is not clear.

But I think it’s pretty clear recruitment over the summer was awful. Probably one of the worst considering the relative money we spent. Has vibes of that sammy Lee summer to me. Random players coming in, big numbers, no real clarity on the whole thing.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He's put out a system that should have helped, but it's like he's downloaded a tactic for Football Manager and doesn't understand how it works. That sides of things is easy to fix, but it's getting worse and not better.

Usually it's alright, because it's worked well enough to push us through most games. This season it's not and he looks lost.

Someone on here mentioned "copying City's homework", or similar. In the case of the 3-4-2-1 it's like he's watched England, ignored the noise around the quality of the performances, focused on them finishing in the top two and thought "that's the formation for me."

Trouble is, as my dear and wise friend Flanners put it, that formation was implemented without really noticing or caring that it suits neither Dion Charles nor Josh Sheehan, two of our most widely-admired (outside the club, at least) players. That might not be.... sensible?

Ian's got away with being iffy in-game (still good for the level, but certainly iffy) by being a genuinely top-level training ground coach by League One standards. This season he's clearly not getting that side of things done.

I have been impressed by the way he has changed his team's formation (and usually improved its results) on several occasions in his career. Switching from a back four to a back three won the title at Barrow; switching from a back four to a back three got Bolton promoted; reverting to a back three established us in this division; inverting the midfield triangle from 3-4-1-2 to 3-1-4-2 won us a cup and got us to two play-offs.

However. And it's a bloody big however.

That long-term formational flexibility has very very rarely been displayed on a shorter-term basis, especially in-game. Oxford at Wembley was merely the worst example of it but Evatt's tenure has been riddled with accusations that certain things spike his guns. Some of them were solved in time - set-pieces, 'rugged' opponents, poor pitches - but it's rarely felt like the answer would be quick in coming. Perhaps "time on the grass" and "downloading content into them" would work eventually, but Evatt's almost parodical insistence on "Plan A but better" speaks of a certain tactical intransigence that is always going to carry a huge risk.

[GhostoftheBok]

But I think it’s pretty clear recruitment over the summer was awful.

Depends.

Sammy Lee? No.

Most of this lot look decent.

McAtee, Matete, Forino, Southwood etc. None of them are stinking up any squad at this level.

Schon has loads about him. Work rate, touch, grit, etc. He's been dropped into a new country and a dysfunctional team, but that's not a dreadful footballer.

Tutu has immediately got himself crocked. Lolos the same, but less predictably.

That's only 7. Who am I missing? Arfield. Yeah, not sure there. Too slow for one role, not neat enough for the other. Still, meh.

Tutu felt like a gamble, because Evatt knew he had to sign the 'type' and couldn't get Armstrong. He needed that dribbler and a dribbly #10, now we have neither until (probably) at least January.

They were clearly playing fast and loose, because they had to trim the squad on the fly - so it's not gone to "the plan." Pushing lads out on loan isn't how they'd have wanted it and at least Dan clearly left on poor terms.

Generally I think we've been left with a squad most managers would fancy at this level, though.

The big issue is basic individual creativity. Who is reliably making goals? Collins can, but he's not playing well. McAtee is neat on that side, but he's not a regular maker of goals.

If your system has to do all the creative work it'd better be brilliantly coached. It's clearly not.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

He seems to be suggesting we didn’t get the signings we needed. Whether he means in his view or Evatt didn’t get his choices is not clear.

But I think it’s pretty clear recruitment over the summer was awful. Probably one of the worst considering the relative money we spent. Has vibes of that sammy Lee summer to me. Random players coming in, big numbers, no real clarity on the whole thing.

The summer transfer window was definitely... odd.

Releasing the two six-footer strikers (three if you count Dan) was understandable in each case but not really replacing them with any form of aerial ability was perhaps unwise. Losing Maghoma was a huge blow - he hasn't been replaced. Perhaps partly because of losing Maghoma, we changed formation - but that hasn't worked at all. Arfield always felt a bit "hmm". Tutu – probably not first choice - was a punt on an injury risk, and guess what? Lolos was a punt on a lower-league player, and he got crocked too. Schon was a punt on a foreigner, and I bet he's wondering what went wrong. And, as happens in transfer chases, several targets we were linked with went elsewhere.

The light touches round the edges were alright - Forino for a bit more beef, Southwood as a proper backup keeper, most of the players we signed did improve the squad - but it felt like some major issues weren't solved. Add in the formational change that hasn't worked and the general Oxford hangover, and it's been a perfect shitstorm.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Generally I think we've been left with a squad most managers would fancy at this level, though.

This. It's not perfectly balanced - there's no left-back per se - but it could and should work, and not just in one formation.

There's some very good players there. A team with Charles, Adeboyejo, Collins and McAtee hasn't scored in four league games, and not particularly looked likely to most of the time. That shouldn't happen.

[Worthy4England]

Iles just said on his post game audio summary that he felt bad vibes all summer didn’t think we’d be anywhere near promotion

Marc is often wise after the fact, but assuming that's the case you have to ask how Sharon's "root and branch" review missed all these black clouds and bad vibes that are now so obvious to everyone with a view inside.

He doesn't have to be a shitload "wise after the fact." We've been suggesting it for a while. As you observed over the summer. I'm starting to think plan B being better plan A, is the only one we have and it's the same.

[GhostoftheBok]

Perhaps "time on the grass" and "downloading content into them" would work eventually, but Evatt's almost parodical insistence on "Plan A but better" speaks of a certain tactical intransigence that is always going to carry a huge risk.

They're not elite coaches. Evatt calls himself and his staff elite, but none of them have ever coached at an elite level that I'm aware of. They've played some Premier League games, but that's another world.

The delay for Evatt, you feel, is that he goes away and learns it himself - then transmits it. He usually transmits it well, but this time not so much.

I don't really mind "Plan A, but better" if you can do Plan A better. Genuinely elite coaches rarely change fundamentals, they mostly change where their teams exploit space and where they allow it. It's basically that simple. Football is mostly a space game. Pep has won back to back to back etc titles by always anticipating changes to where the space is and setting up to hurt teams from those areas.

This season we aren't playing into space, because Evatt seems not to understand how this system should work - in either direction.

Last season we were able to find free space time and time again. We weren't creative enough, if anything; but we scored lots of goals. The data suggested we overperformed our creativity and there would be some snap-back, but it's snapped hard in the other direction.

Again, this system and this group of players could win football matches. This group of players used in other ways could also win football matches. Obviously there will now be major confidence hurdles to overcome just to get them going, but there's no reason this group can't win lots of games - other than how they're being coached. Big lift to change the mood, though. As in huge.

[Worthy4England]

But I think it’s pretty clear recruitment over the summer was awful.

Depends.

Sammy Lee? No.

Most of this lot look decent.

McAtee, Matete, Forino, Southwood etc. None of them are stinking up any squad at this level.

Schon has loads about him. Work rate, touch, grit, etc. He's been dropped into a new country and a dysfunctional team, but that's not a dreadful footballer.

Tutu has immediately got himself crocked. Lolos the same, but less predictably.

That's only 7. Who am I missing? Arfield. Yeah, not sure there. Too slow for one role, not neat enough for the other. Still, meh.

Tutu felt like a gamble, because Evatt knew he had to sign the 'type' and couldn't get Armstrong. He needed that dribbler and a dribbly #10, now we have neither until (probably) at least January.

They were clearly playing fast and loose, because they had to trim the squad on the fly - so it's not gone to "the plan." Pushing lads out on loan isn't how they'd have wanted it and at least Dan clearly left on poor terms.

Generally I think we've been left with a squad most managers would fancy at this level, though.

The big issue is basic individual creativity. Who is reliably making goals? Collins can, but he's not playing well. McAtee is neat on that side, but he's not a regular maker of goals.

If your system has to do all the creative work it'd better be brilliantly coached. It's clearly not.

I'm usually a bit lost, but here I'm missing the map. McAtee, dunno. Matete great 30. Forino. Absolute clogger (but needs more time). Southwood, 2nd keeper...

Thank fcuk for the highly paid recruitment dept. It's like a fcuking free hit. They're shit - manager. They're great. Us.