Terriers Barking, But Can Bolton Bite Back? - Bolton v Hudderfield - 14/09/2024 @ 3pm

[GhostoftheBok]

He doesn't have to be a shitload "wise after the fact."

No, but given that he was pretty positive when speaking to me in preseason I'm assuming there's some "my hindsight was foresight" going on.

Just from experience Marc forgets to mention at the time a lot that he apparently saw coming.

However, that's not really the issue. If it was as obvious as both Ian and Marc are now saying it was FROM THE INSIDE how on earth was he kept on? As you say, the one thing we all agreed on during the summer was that if Evatt was at all pessimistic or doubtful about this coming season then he had to go immediately.

Unless, as remains a real possibility, this was a "One last go before the wheels come off entirely" chancer from Sharon. Hopefully not, but that would explain a lot about the language being used at the minute.

I'm totally removed from the club (and mostly from the game generally, these days), so I've no clue. Hopefully it's as simple as changing the gaffer and going again.

[GhostoftheBok]

I'm usually a bit lost, but here I'm missing the map. McAtee, dunno. Matete great 30. Forino. Absolute clogger (but needs more time). Southwood, 2nd keeper...

Thank fcuk for the highly paid recruitment dept. It's like a fcuking free hit. They're shit - manager. They're great. Us.

You've managed to lose me this time.

We signed 8.

7 of them look like good players for the level and one is maybe past it, but looks to have enough there to maybe suit another system.

Of the 7, two are injured. One predictably, one not.

Then you have one lad who has been dropped into a new country and a team that's all at sea.

I don't think this is a recruitment disaster. What it's also not is the recruitment salvation Evatt probably needed, given what's now being said.

He needed a few top level lads who could step right in.

McAtee, a proper #10. Armstrong, etc. Lads who could play with some swagger and creativity. Who would run through brick walls and all that guff.

What he's got is lads who are good footballers, but almost all of them needed time to get right and he's clearly a manager who doesn't have time.

So, like I say, it's not Sammy Lee's "Any old shite will do", deal with it nightmare. Ian should still be winning games here. This group could be winning games right now as we speak, if Evatt was doing his job better.

[Worthy4England]

He doesn't have to be a shitload "wise after the fact."

No, but given that he was pretty positive when speaking to me in preseason I'm assuming there's some "my hindsight was foresight" going on.

Just from experience Marc forgets to mention at the time a lot that he apparently saw coming.

However, that's not really the issue. If it was as obvious as both Ian and Marc are now saying it was FROM THE INSIDE how on earth was he kept on? As you say, the one thing we all agreed on during the summer was that if Evatt was at all pessimistic or doubtful about this coming season then he had to go immediately.

Unless, as remains a real possibility, this was a "One last go before the wheels come off entirely" chancer from Sharon. Hopefully not, but that would explain a lot about the language being used at the minute.

I'm totally removed from the club (and mostly from the game generally, these days), so I've no clue. Hopefully it's as simple as changing the gaffer and going again.

Honest mate, I can see his passion. While I think he says some dumb shit, and plays some shit, boring, possession football, so far it's worked more often than it hasn't. Until this season, I'd have billed us as a top end L1 team. But he's now missing - not quite enough and when your target is promotion (whether some fans care or not.), he's missed that fine line. By a fine margin. Therein lies the difference. Marginal shit, but was forever thus.

[Worthy4England]

I'm usually a bit lost, but here I'm missing the map. McAtee, dunno. Matete great 30. Forino. Absolute clogger (but needs more time). Southwood, 2nd keeper...

Thank fcuk for the highly paid recruitment dept. It's like a fcuking free hit. They're shit - manager. They're great. Us.

You've managed to lose me this time.

We signed 8.

7 of them look like good players for the level and one is maybe past it, but looks to have enough there to maybe suit another system.

Of the 7, two are injured. One predictably, one not.

Then you have one lad who has been dropped into a new country and a team that's all at sea.

I don't think this is a recruitment disaster. What it's also not is the recruitment salvation Evatt probably needed, given what's now being said.

He needed a few top level lads who could step right in.

McAtee, a proper #10. Armstrong, etc. Lads who could play with some swagger and creativity. Who would run through brick walls and all that guff.

What he's got is lads who are good footballers, but almost all of them needed time to get right and he's clearly a manager who doesn't have time.

So, like I say, it's not Sammy Lee's "Any old shite will do", deal with it nightmare. Ian should still be winning games here. This group could be winning games right now as we speak, if Evatt was doing his job better.

I have no issue with "Ian should be winning games." But we know teams don't always operate that way.

The best managers cope with the bad times and the adversity. The good times are the payoff.

Defensively we can't be coaching them, because we keep letting strikers free in a 10 yard box (often 6) or drift inbetween 2 big lumps. Who is coaching this shit?

[irie Cee Bee]

Evatt has simply reached his level. I give him a passing grade for his work with us in the past but last season showed me that he makes excuses for losses instead of trying to learn the trade from mangers who beat our team. All teams know how to beat us now and he just cannot adjust to give them somethingelse to think about. Thats my problem with him. He has reached his limit. We now need better.

[GhostoftheBok]

Honest mate, I can see his passion. While I think he says some dumb shit, and plays some shit, boring, possession football, so far it's worked more often than it hasn't. Until this season, I'd have billed us as a top end L1 team. But he's now missing - not quite enough and when your target is promotion (whether some fans care or not.), he's missed that fine line. By a fine margin. Therein lies the difference. Marginal shit, but was forever thus.

Generally, yeah. We were a top League One side under Evatt, but couldn't find what was needed to get it done in the end.

Whatever has gone wrong (and we can all speculate until we drop dead of boredom) is very wrong.

If Ian is staying, which we have to assume is entirely possible, then he has to strip all this back to basics and go again. Treat it like the formation switch of 19/20 or 22/23 and get the lads to do the absolute basics for a few games.

"This is how we score a goal", "This is we keep it out" levels of basic.

Huddersfield were not good until we made them look good, but they knew how to win a football match. They knew what they had to do to score a goal and they knew how to stop us.

Evatt now can't treat this like tweaking a good side into a great side. This is turning shit into sugar time. At the start of the season there were a few very easily fixed issues, but it's now spiralled into every "marginal" being off.

His ego may not let him, but he needs to strip it back to basics if he's still here on Monday morning.

[BWFC_Insane]

But I think it’s pretty clear recruitment over the summer was awful.

Depends.

Sammy Lee? No.

Most of this lot look decent.

McAtee, Matete, Forino, Southwood etc. None of them are stinking up any squad at this level.

Schon has loads about him. Work rate, touch, grit, etc. He's been dropped into a new country and a dysfunctional team, but that's not a dreadful footballer.

Tutu has immediately got himself crocked. Lolos the same, but less predictably.

That's only 7. Who am I missing? Arfield. Yeah, not sure there. Too slow for one role, not neat enough for the other. Still, meh.

Tutu felt like a gamble, because Evatt knew he had to sign the 'type' and couldn't get Armstrong. He needed that dribbler and a dribbly #10, now we have neither until (probably) at least January.

They were clearly playing fast and loose, because they had to trim the squad on the fly - so it's not gone to "the plan." Pushing lads out on loan isn't how they'd have wanted it and at least Dan clearly left on poor terms.

Generally I think we've been left with a squad most managers would fancy at this level, though.

The big issue is basic individual creativity. Who is reliably making goals? Collins can, but he's not playing well. McAtee is neat on that side, but he's not a regular maker of goals.

If your system has to do all the creative work it'd better be brilliantly coached. It's clearly not.

Individual quality is hard to assess in the mess we are in.

But I never got the McAtee signing. Ever.

We lack two main things in attack. Pace and ability to run at teams. We probably need two or three who do just that. Minimum. And have none, bar maybe Tutu who is out injured and even he’s a bit tenuous. Where are the players who make stuff happen? They don’t exist. You need some Ameobi’s who can do something exciting. Instead we’ve ended up with a squad who are all the same. Get the ball. Turn round pass it backwards or sideways.

Midfield Thommo tries to pass forward and Matete drives forward but neither are particularly likely to carve teams open. We’ve no Okocha or Maghoma. We’ve no Ameobi or Lee or Thompson or Morais or Fossey or Dapo. And we needed a few of them.

Even in the absence of quality a couple of Bernard Mendy’s would have changed this side up enough.

You won’t get out of league one unless you are prepared to deliver the ball into the box from wide areas and frequently. Our team is too reliant on breaking a team down through the middle and we aren’t good enough to do that.

POMO is how you will get a side with our strikers out of this league. Make teams defend their boxes time and time and time again. A mistake can be punished. Quality on the cross can lead to a goal. It is that simple for me.

[TANGODANCER]

Evatt now can't treat this like tweaking a good side into a great side. This is turning shit into sugar time. At the start of the season there were a few very easily fixed issues, but it's now spiralled into every "marginal" being off. His ego may not let him, but he needs to strip it back to basics if he's still here on Monday morning.

No way I can see I.E getting the sack. He's too well in with the in-crowd at toughsheet. Whats with the "Sunday go to meeting" best suit and tie outfit all of a sudden? . Is that a clue?

[Worthy4England]

Hmm. I hear where you're at Insano and I actually think we'd tried to simplify it yesterday. Felt like there were faster balls forward. But that needs a plan too. It isn't as easy as "Let's not play complicated plan A, just hoof it"

I'm not sure where the quality balls into the box are coming from and the most worrying aspect is the amount of times he said, paraphrasing, I don't know what to do. I mean when your last 4 (I think) you've conceded at least 2 per game, I'd probably start there..

In better news, we had the lions share of possession...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Hmm. I hear where you're at Insano and I actually think we'd tried to simplify it yesterday. Felt like there were faster balls forward. But that needs a plan too. It isn't as easy as "Let's not play complicated plan A, just hoof it"

I'm not sure where the quality balls into the box are coming from and the most worrying aspect is the amount of times he said, paraphrasing, I don't know what to do. I mean when your last 4 (I think) you've conceded at least 2 per game, I'd probably start there..

In better news, we had the lions share of possession...

First half we moved forward much quicker than usual. At one point Santos was steaming forward into their half and angrily demanding Forino/JDC do likewise. But yeah, that translated were a lot of aimless punts in the general direction of Dion's head that reminded me of a Parky team wafting it forward to a Madineless ALF and wondering why it didn't work.

As you imply, there should be a middle ground there - it's not a tap/hoof dichotomy, you can mix it up, and McGinlay on the comms was increasingly irate that Dion didn't drop short to receive it instead of trying to work the ball in behind (which worked, what, once?)

It feels like he's said "look where the space is" and some players think "well there's acres over there behind their defence". It's useful as an option but it's easily defended if you do it all the time. Dion's not actually that fast, he's more about stamina than speed.

"I don't know what to do" - yeah, that's resignation talk, or should be. It's perilously close to "I can't do my job." Think about saying that in any other work situation and it would take quite the combination of honesty from the speaker and understanding from their boss. You might say it early in a new job or when something goes unusually wrong, but in a press conference?

On the last, I think our possession share shot up once Huddersfield went in front and sometimes let us faff inconsequentially in front of them. As Duff said though, that last goal proves they didn't simply sit back - they chased (which is work but not possession) until we ballsed up, then pounced. I'd be happy for us to score a goal like that. Or, right now, any way at all.

[officer_dibble]

In the ‘I can’t do my job’ I’m sure he has decided his time is up but financially he needs sacking. He’s effectively asking for the decision to be made for him.

[Worthy4England]

Don't forget, along with the "can't do it," stuff there also appears to be a chunk of voodoo mixed in with the mysterious black cloud and JuJu men in the west stand lower. If he doesn't go, he needs to stop feeling hard done by pretty quickly imo. Like now.

[officer_dibble]

Has to go. There isn’t an option now where he stays and we dig in and find results. If she doesn’t sack him tomorrow she’s wrong and people will start questioning her judgement.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Don't forget, along with the "can't do it," stuff there also appears to be a chunk of voodoo mixed in with the mysterious black cloud and JuJu men in the west stand lower. If he doesn't go, he needs to stop feeling hard done by pretty quickly imo. Like now.

I think as a man of faith (in himself as well as his religion) he'll regain his self-belief.

I just hope it isn't this weekend and he and Sharon decide to give it one more go for the sake of the kids.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Has to go. There isn’t an option now where he stays and we dig in and find results. If she doesn’t sack him tomorrow she’s wrong and people will start questioning her judgement.

Indeed - and the poisonous atmosphere spreads.

Act quickly, mercifully cut the cord, and the fanbase will retain more belief in the FV project - which will also transmit to the next manager.

Faff about and the judgement-questioning may well extend to the next appointment, who'd then be on a sticky wicket from the get-go.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

For me, coming out with "I don't know what to do", regardless of anything else, means he has to go. You can't verbalise that and expect the players to have confidence and belief in you and what you're trying to do. You might get away with the fans losing confidence and belief for a time, but as soon as the players don't believe you lose any chance of doing anything about it.

He's had time over the international break to download content into players and get them to believe in it. I'd hoped we would see a purpose and major progress towards that, even if the win didn't come with it. Its gotten worse and it is time for someone else to have a go. Like Pru I hope we don't throw the bathwater out with the baby. If we do it will take longer to achieve our goals. Get to January within reach and try to fix enough of the missing bits to get us to Wembley and a shot at going up.

[officer_dibble]

For me, coming out with "I don't know what to do", regardless of anything else, means he has to go. You can't verbalise that and expect the players to have confidence and belief in you and what you're trying to do. You might get away with the fans losing confidence and belief for a time, but as soon as the players don't believe you lose any chance of doing anything about it.

Exactly. If thats your gaffa on a Friday telling you they don’t know how to manage you and results are that bad you are going out of business, you are into the people above on a Monday morning telling them a change is needed. Infact that’s what should happen - Santos should find his voice and take some senior players in to see Sharon or Phil Mason or whoever is on the ground and tell them they need a new voice.

[irie Cee Bee]

In the ‘I can’t do my job’ I’m sure he has decided his time is up but financially he needs sacking. He’s effectively asking for the decision to be made for him.

Agree with this. He wants out. He was damaged after failing to get us up. Never heard a thing from him over the summer...clearly distraught. Mustered enough strength to go again, but is now too damaged to find the strength to go on. He is litterally begging the board to take him out of his misery and pay him for the rest of his contract.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

For me, coming out with "I don't know what to do", regardless of anything else, means he has to go. You can't verbalise that and expect the players to have confidence and belief in you and what you're trying to do. You might get away with the fans losing confidence and belief for a time, but as soon as the players don't believe you lose any chance of doing anything about it.

Exactly. If thats your gaffa on a Friday telling you they don’t know how to manage you and results are that bad you are going out of business, you are into the people above on a Monday morning telling them a change is needed. Infact that’s what should happen - Santos should find his voice and take some senior players in to see Sharon or Phil Mason or whoever is on the ground and tell them they need a new voice.

If the players don't feel its time for change I think it points to Insano being right about them being too comfortable.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

For me, coming out with "I don't know what to do", regardless of anything else, means he has to go. You can't verbalise that and expect the players to have confidence and belief in you and what you're trying to do. You might get away with the fans losing confidence and belief for a time, but as soon as the players don't believe you lose any chance of doing anything about it.

Exactly. If thats your gaffa on a Friday telling you they don’t know how to manage you and results are that bad you are going out of business, you are into the people above on a Monday morning telling them a change is needed. Infact that’s what should happen - Santos should find his voice and take some senior players in to see Sharon or Phil Mason or whoever is on the ground and tell them they need a new voice.

If the players don't feel its time for change I think it points to Insano being right about them being too comfortable.

The sad thing is a lot of them on signing said how impressed they were with Evatt's ideas and ambitions. I'm not for a moment saying we should therefore keep him, but the new manager would have to convince them.

However, footballers tend to be a resilient lot - it's a peripatetic lifestyle under a stream of masters - so managers often have to work hard to alienate them.