Ken Anderson - Old Owner (Definitely. For Ever ..... )

[TonyDomingos]

Blue Monday.

Hoping its not a "black Wednesday".....

Does anyone see us getting out of this? Is there really a consortium out there willing to throw £10s of millions at a Div One club? I guess we'll know in 48 hours .....

[BWFC_Insane]

Blue Monday.

Hoping its not a "black Wednesday".....

Does anyone see us getting out of this? Is there really a consortium out there willing to throw £10s of millions at a Div One club? I guess we'll know in 48 hours .....

I honestly think its messy enough and expensive enough that there is a real chance we won't....I know every time someone says this we find a way out of it...but it feels like the past 3 years were just a delay. We need a proper solution. I'm hopeful someone will save the day. But every hour that passes does leave with a little bit more of that horrible unnerving sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that "this could be it". Unthinkable, but sometimes the unthinkable does happen.....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd be surprised if Basran doesn't reappear.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd be surprised if Basran doesn't reappear.

My guess is not before Wednesday unless Ken goes back to him. Have no insider info but my guess is that Ken keeps telling Basran there are "other parties interested". Basran feels he's the only show in town, and wants to use Wednesday as a way to prove it.

If he's "out" then Ken cannot use his deal as a reason to request delay (remember how the DH deal was used as a reason to delay proceedings?) so KA would need to show proof of some other progressing deal to the court...Basran banking on Ken being unable to do this so hoping KA reduces price/improves terms ahead of Weds...

High risk if you are a BWFC fan. Sensible if you are a businessman.

[jmjhb]

I'd be surprised if Basran doesn't reappear.

To quote Nicko - if he doesn't in this hour of need, he was never the answer in the first place and yet another tyre kicker.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I'd be surprised if Basran doesn't reappear.

My guess is not before Wednesday unless Ken goes back to him. Have no insider info but my guess is that Ken keeps telling Basran there are "other parties interested". Basran feels he's the only show in town, and wants to use Wednesday as a way to prove it.

If he's "out" then Ken cannot use his deal as a reason to request delay (remember how the DH deal was used as a reason to delay proceedings?) so KA would need to show proof of some other progressing deal to the court...Basran banking on Ken being unable to do this so hoping KA reduces price/improves terms ahead of Weds...

High risk if you are a BWFC fan. Sensible if you are a businessman.

Agree with all that, aye. I'll be checking the wires, but not with any real expectation.

To quote Nicko - if he doesn't in this hour of need, he was never the answer in the first place and yet another tyre kicker.

I agree to an extent, but we don't have to deal with Ken: I suspect it may be intensely annoying almost to the point of impossibility. Hopefully, hopefully, the Damoclean threat of Wednesday - not so much the threat to the club as the threat to his money - will shake him out... out of our club.

[jmjhb]

I suspect some sort of deal staving off liquidation will be reached but in true Wanderers style, it won't be pretty and it will go right to the wire.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd be surprised if Basran doesn't reappear.

My guess is not before Wednesday unless Ken goes back to him. Have no insider info but my guess is that Ken keeps telling Basran there are "other parties interested". Basran feels he's the only show in town, and wants to use Wednesday as a way to prove it.

If he's "out" then Ken cannot use his deal as a reason to request delay (remember how the DH deal was used as a reason to delay proceedings?) so KA would need to show proof of some other progressing deal to the court...Basran banking on Ken being unable to do this so hoping KA reduces price/improves terms ahead of Weds...

High risk if you are a BWFC fan. Sensible if you are a businessman.

Agree with all that, aye. I'll be checking the wires, but not with any real expectation.

To quote Nicko - if he doesn't in this hour of need, he was never the answer in the first place and yet another tyre kicker.

I agree to an extent, but we don't have to deal with Ken: I suspect it may be intensely annoying almost to the point of impossibility. Hopefully, hopefully, the Damoclean threat of Wednesday - not so much the threat to the club as the threat to his money - will shake him out... out of our club.

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

[BWFC_Insane]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

You always fear the worst though

[Worthy4England]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

Not at all sure about that. Within one of the charges was an Intercreditor Deed (which effectively states how the Secured Lenders sit alongside one another should it come down to paying out). It's quite possible that Moonshift/Fildraw, Warburton, PBP are all higher in the pecking order than Anderson (just on the basis Anderson was last to the party)

[BWFC_Insane]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

Not at all sure about that. Within one of the charges was an Intercreditor Deed (which effectively states how the Secured Lenders sit alongside one another should it come down to paying out). It's quite possible that Moonshift/Fildraw, Warburton, PBP are all higher in the pecking order than Anderson (just on the basis Anderson was last to the party)

I meant more Moonshift and ED's trustees currently...they could as I understand it simply reclaim the shares from KA and save the club that way. Is there a reason to your knowledge why they haven't?

[Worthy4England]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

Not at all sure about that. Within one of the charges was an Intercreditor Deed (which effectively states how the Secured Lenders sit alongside one another should it come down to paying out). It's quite possible that Moonshift/Fildraw, Warburton, PBP are all higher in the pecking order than Anderson (just on the basis Anderson was last to the party)

I meant more Moonshift and ED's trustees currently...they could as I understand it simply reclaim the shares from KA and save the club that way. Is there a reason to your knowledge why they haven't?

The shares can't directly transfer with a winder outstanding - would need permission from the court, which I suspect would involve discussing who was paying all the outstanding(s)...Tax, maybe Forest Green Rovers etc. etc.

[BWFC_Insane]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

Not at all sure about that. Within one of the charges was an Intercreditor Deed (which effectively states how the Secured Lenders sit alongside one another should it come down to paying out). It's quite possible that Moonshift/Fildraw, Warburton, PBP are all higher in the pecking order than Anderson (just on the basis Anderson was last to the party)

I meant more Moonshift and ED's trustees currently...they could as I understand it simply reclaim the shares from KA and save the club that way. Is there a reason to your knowledge why they haven't?

The shares can't directly transfer with a winder outstanding - would need permission from the court, which I suspect would involve discussing who was paying all the outstanding(s)...Tax, maybe Forest Green Rovers etc. etc.

Interesting. So a buyer would only be able to do this if they convinced the court they could cover all outstandings?

[Worthy4England]

Not necessarily - they could come to an Agreement with the party that's owed (rather than settle) which it was suggested was what Basran was trying to do with PBP/Michael James...As far as we know currently none of the main secured creditors (Fildraw/Moonshift, Warburton and PBP are looking to take action so might be agreeable to extension of credit facility etc. The immediate issue seems to be how to pay the non-secured debts with what appears to be "not a pot to pi$$ in"...HMRC (from memory the HMRC debt is >£1m over a 12 month period), FGR (no idea whether they'll be able to prove their claim), etc.

[Jim_McDonuts]

As a secured creditor I'm unconvinced Ken loses out that much in either scenario...a lot depends upon how the deals are structured between him and ED's trustees...

Arguments rage over what precisely Ken's 'secured' status means, but it'd be nice if Eddie saved us from beyond the grave, yes.

For instance, if the club was liquidated, would the Davieses get their money back off Ken? If not, they've got a very strong reason to pull the rug from under him. Maybe, maybe, they're already trying.

I think there is no chance of that. Quite the opposite possibly....

Not at all sure about that. Within one of the charges was an Intercreditor Deed (which effectively states how the Secured Lenders sit alongside one another should it come down to paying out). It's quite possible that Moonshift/Fildraw, Warburton, PBP are all higher in the pecking order than Anderson (just on the basis Anderson was last to the party)

I meant more Moonshift and ED's trustees currently...they could as I understand it simply reclaim the shares from KA and save the club that way. Is there a reason to your knowledge why they haven't?

The shares can't directly transfer with a winder outstanding - would need permission from the court, which I suspect would involve discussing who was paying all the outstanding(s)...Tax, maybe Forest Green Rovers etc. etc.

Interesting. So a buyer would only be able to do this if they convinced the court they could cover all outstandings?

& as from my reading, this is why there's some speculation over the Basran Bids potential funds

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

& as from my reading, this is why there's some speculation over the Basran Bids potential funds

Not having a go at you Jim but IMO that's an easy and understandable but incorrect conclusion to jump to.

For instance. Imagine I go to my local fish market, see some Dover sole priced at £2.50 and ask to buy it. The fishmonger wraps it, takes it to the till and says "That'll be a fiver please mate". Could I afford it? Yes, I could. Would I pay it? Not without a whole heap of haggling, finger-pointing and perhaps downright frustration. Who knows, I might even walk away.

A stupid example, perhaps. But you get the drift. And at some point, with his stock going off, the fishmonger might drop his price.

[BWFC_Insane]

& as from my reading, this is why there's some speculation over the Basran Bids potential funds

Not having a go at you Jim but IMO that's an easy and understandable but incorrect conclusion to jump to.

For instance. Imagine I go to my local fish market, see some Dover sole priced at £2.50 and ask to buy it. The fishmonger wraps it, takes it to the till and says "That'll be a fiver please mate". Could I afford it? Yes, I could. Would I pay it? Not without a whole heap of haggling, finger-pointing and perhaps downright frustration. Who knows, I might even walk away.

A stupid example, perhaps. But you get the drift. And at some point, with his stock going off, the fishmonger might drop his price.

The theory behind this comes from talk that if Basran had the money he could simply buy the debt from Moonshift (whatever that debt is) and recall the shares from inner circle....hence buying the club for merely the Moonshift loan debt. Then he could pay off the outstanding HMRC bills and secured creditors (or reach deals with them) without having to negotiate with KA at all. No idea whether that is a feasible line of argument or not...worthy can probably offer a good view on it.....

[TonyDomingos]

& as from my reading, this is why there's some speculation over the Basran Bids potential funds

Not having a go at you Jim but IMO that's an easy and understandable but incorrect conclusion to jump to.

For instance. Imagine I go to my local fish market, see some Dover sole priced at £2.50 and ask to buy it. The fishmonger wraps it, takes it to the till and says "That'll be a fiver please mate". Could I afford it? Yes, I could. Would I pay it? Not without a whole heap of haggling, finger-pointing and perhaps downright frustration. Who knows, I might even walk away.

A stupid example, perhaps. But you get the drift. And at some point, with his stock going off, the fishmonger might drop his price.

Here we go ......

I've haddock with Ken. He's intent on destroying the very sole of the club. Eel be happy to see us liquidated.